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“Why Is It O.K. To Have a Child with Someone You Know Won’t Stick Around?”

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This question comes from a blogger whom I greatly admire and respect.  However, her audience is black women so I will not post her entire article here, since I am not trying to ask this question of any one race.

For anyone interested, the article can be read here:

http://familyscholars.org/2012/06/22/why-is-it-o-k-to-have-a-child-with-someone-you-know-wont-stick-around/comment-page-1/#comment-130508


by on Dec. 8, 2012 at 9:46 PM
Replies (191-200):
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:05 PM


Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

You don't have to have two parents to raise a child. One parent can do it just fine.

Why should anyone have to do it alone, though?

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:06 PM

lol

Quoting little.worthen:

But why if you only get the POS qualities

Quoting cueballsmom:

maybe the "other" is a pos with qualities we would like in a child? idk.


acrogodess
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Yes, I can read. It's okay to have children with a man you know won't stick around because there are NO guarantees that a man WILL stick around. Why wait for Mr. Right when there is no way to ensure, he will do right? Should you deny yourself a chance to be a good mother simply because you lack a man? That's just ridiculous.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting acrogodess:

Because being married and "getting to know a man" before having kids is no guarantee that he won't change his mind later. Woman who get married and honestly think dad will stick around can still end up as single mothers.

“Why Is It O.K. To Have a Child with Someone You Know Won’t Stick Around?”

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cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:07 PM
I don't know, just thought that may be a line a reasoning.

Quoting little.worthen:

But why if you only get the POS qualities



Quoting cueballsmom:

maybe the "other" is a pos with qualities we would like in a child? idk.
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futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:11 PM


Quoting lga1965:

Not everyone has changed that much. And. I don't believe the culture and values have changed that much either except in
areas where there is poverty and lack of education. Giving up on family values is a.negative change, nothing to be proud of. Some change is not good. Being unmarried is not "being modern and "with it "/span>
Quoting mehamil1:

You are looking at this with western 21st century socially conservative family values (ie, don't have them babies till you are married/in a stable relationship) and ignoring the very very very human aspect of this. 

Our culture has changed. We value different things. And in order for this influx of single parents to not turn out as you think it will, more help needs to be allocated to parents system wide, at the macro level, institutionally. Times have changed we are not going back. We need to adapt to the change or suffer the consequences. Not hold on to the past and try like all hell to swim upstream. 

Humans have been walking around in this form for about 1.2 million years, give or take. Our brains became what they are now possible 250,000 years ago, give or take. We've been living in an agricultural society for the past 10,000 years, give or take. Our ways and culture and values and morals are CONSTANTLY changing. That is part of being human. Always has been.

Look at this issue from the human perspective, not the "what is right" perspective. Because when it comes to us, that is constantly changing. Your answer lies in there.  


Quoting futureshock:
Quoting mehamil1:

Because we're fucking human. 

Everyone is human and this is happening so much more in just the recent past, even just since 2002.  I would really like to understand what is at the root of this sudden jump in numbers.

The facts are that there has been a dramatic increase in the numbers of single parents just since even 2002. Something is causing this and it cannot be birth control failure since birth control did not suddenly become less reliable since 2002.



Quote:

"After having relative stability in births to unmarried women from the mid 1990s to 2002, we've seen really big increases between 2002 and 2007," said Stephanie J. Ventura, director of the Reproductive Statistics Branch at the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics and author of the report.
In the United States, out-of-wedlock births increased by 26 percent between 2002 and 2007, according to the report. In 1980, the rate of out-of-wedlock births was 18 percent.
Though the reasons for the increase are not clear, Ventura said, one factor might be that having a child when you're not married is no longer stigmatized.
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2009/05/13/more-single-women-are-having-babie


That is very true.



Quote:

"The most important recent analysis of that reality is “The Uneven Spread of Single-Parent Families,” a 2004 paper by Harvard’s David Ellwood and Christopher Jencks. The Kennedy School profs divide American mothers into three categories by education level: women with a college degree or higher; women with a high school diploma (including those with some college, whose trends look very similar to those with high school alone); and women who never graduated high school."

 

"Far more dramatic were the divergent trends in what was still known at the time as illegitimacy. Yes, out-of-wedlock childbearing among women with college diplomas tripled, but because their numbers started at Virtually Nonexistent in 1960 (a fraction of 1 percent), they only moved up to Minuscule in 1980 (a little under 3 percent of mothers in the top third of education distribution) to end up at a Rare 4 percent.

Things were radically different for mothers in the lower two educational levels. They decided that marriage and children were two entirely unconnected life experiences. That decline in their divorce rate after 1990? Well, it turns out the reason for it wasn’t that these women had thought better of putting their children through a parental breakup, as many of their more educated sisters had; it was that they weren’t getting married in the first place. Throughout the 1980s and nineties, the out-of-wedlock birthrate soared to about 15 percent among mothers with less than a high school education and 10 percent of those with a high school diploma or with some college."

http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_1_marriage_gap.html



p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:11 PM
Why do you have to share that duty with anyone?
There is nothing wrong with either parent raising a child on their own.
Sometimes you don't know how a person really is until you have a child in the picture. Sometimes it is better to be alone when raising a child.


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

You don't have to have two parents to raise a child. One parent can do it just fine.

Why should anyone have to do it alone, though?

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luckystars2012
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:25 PM
You're kidding me right? Women cheat just as much as men do. I've know plenty of good guys who had crappy wives.

As for being "better", legally it depends on your situation. If you need health insurance or want your significant other ti adopt your child, then yes you need to be married. For someone like me who has my own income and insurance, there is absolutely no legal benefit to marriage.

Morally, again, depends on your sitch. I'm not religious. I view marriage as a government contract, that is easily broken. There's no "moral value" in it for me. My moral values are shown and practiced in the way I raise my kids, my long term monogamous relationship, my good work.ethic. etc. Marriage doesn't have a thing to do with it.


Quoting lga1965:

I think it's more likely that women are leaving marriages more often. Wht does everyone assume its always men? And I am pretty sure most women go into marriage expecting to stay married...until the guy proves to be a jerk or cheats. And nowadays women won't put up with men who are jerks. But its still not a reason for everyone to give up on marriage. Its still better to be married before you have kids....legally and morally. Then too ....it sets a good example of stability and commitment.



Quoting luckystars2012:

But again, marriage does not guarantee that a father will stick around. Marriages are failing at an astronomical rate.












Quoting futureshock:


Quoting luckystars2012:

With the rate that marriages fail, it's pretty safe to say that marriage does not guarantee that a guy will stick around.







I've been in a solid committed relationship for over three years, and we are TTC. But no, I am not married and have no plans to be. I simply do not feel that marriage is necessary, and see no true benefit from it.







However I am also financially independent, with my own six figure income, retirement, and health insurance, so IF my relationship ended I could easily maintain my lifestyle without falling back on welfare or my children suffering.











Quoting futureshock:

Here is an excerpt:

[T]he real question shouldn’t be why [people don't]



value marriage, but why the some folks think it’s



okay to make a child without ensuring that the other parent stick



around.





Children suffer from more than just lack of money, many suffer from lack of a committed and decent father.  I'm not saying anything about your case specifically, just in general I am saying that the problems faced by many children born out of wedlock come from factors surrounding absent fathers, not just lack of money.



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p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:26 PM
I disagree. SO and I have been together for 8 years and have known each other 10.
our kids are 6,5,&4.
They know we are not married and we have proven ourselves to be better parents, better financially, and morally. This is In.comparison to the parents around us who waited for money and a.ring.
There are many reasons to leave a marriage if either partner proves to be worthless and disrespectful. People change after big.things like marriage and a baby. Sometimes you cannot prepare for their change.


Quoting lga1965:

I think it's more likely that women are leaving marriages more often. Wht does everyone assume its always men? And I am pretty sure most women go into marriage expecting to stay married...until the guy proves to be a jerk or cheats. And nowadays women won't put up with men who are jerks. But its still not a reason for everyone to give up on marriage. Its still better to be married before you have kids....legally and morally. Then too ....it sets a good example of stability and commitment.



Quoting luckystars2012:

But again, marriage does not guarantee that a father will stick around. Marriages are failing at an astronomical rate.












Quoting futureshock:


Quoting luckystars2012:

With the rate that marriages fail, it's pretty safe to say that marriage does not guarantee that a guy will stick around.







I've been in a solid committed relationship for over three years, and we are TTC. But no, I am not married and have no plans to be. I simply do not feel that marriage is necessary, and see no true benefit from it.







However I am also financially independent, with my own six figure income, retirement, and health insurance, so IF my relationship ended I could easily maintain my lifestyle without falling back on welfare or my children suffering.











Quoting futureshock:

Here is an excerpt:

[T]he real question shouldn’t be why [people don't]



value marriage, but why the some folks think it’s



okay to make a child without ensuring that the other parent stick



around.





Children suffer from more than just lack of money, many suffer from lack of a committed and decent father.  I'm not saying anything about your case specifically, just in general I am saying that the problems faced by many children born out of wedlock come from factors surrounding absent fathers, not just lack of money.


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cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:31 PM
http://m.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/who-benefits-from-food-stamps/261993/
There is a chart I can't copy/paste that shows 15% have multiple adults,13% are families-that is 28% combined. While only 27% are single parents with kids.
That means a larger percentage of all welfare receipents in the USA have a partner or are married. How many of the single parents have a S/o they do not report?


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Alright now, that wasn't even my point. However, why didn't they find out the requirements before buying that home? Then they would have been approved. As far as cleaning up others messes, are you saying that no battered women shelters should exist? or maybe those homes for mentally challanged adults? We shouldn't have to pick up the slack when their parent dies, just because they should have aborted....and the list shoots into outer space from there.



Just because a parent is single does not mean they need welfare. Like I said before, far more couples are on welfare, where is your defence on cleaning up or picking up the slack for them?




Quoting kailu1835:

I suppose you could say it's selfishness, but it is also nobody's responsibility to clean up after other people's mistakes.  Some people are willing and happy to, others are not.  Many people are barred from adopting for stupid reasons.  It's extremely difficult to adopt in this country, and there are numerous hoops to jump through.  I have a friend who was dead set on adopting when she grew up.  She married a man who was happy to adopt, and they started the process.  Because they didn't have enough square footage in their home, they failed their home study.  They never had a chance.  They ended up planning for and having their own children, after 5 years of trying to be approved to adopt, or even foster.  They were not selfish.

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting kailu1835:


No. how can you say that, when tons of women plan so very carefully for their kids? Single or not, the woes of being a parent is screwing up. so, instinct or not, being reasoning creatures, it is pure selfishness to create a new life when so many are starving and dying.



Just
because a parent is single does not mean they need welfare. Like I said
before, far more couples are on welfare, where is your defence on
cleaning up or picking up the slack for them?

Married couples?  Do you have a source for this?

90% of welfare parents are single mothers
http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html

90% of welfare recipients are single mothers. 
Jason DeParle, “Raising Kevion”, New York Times, Aug. 22, 2004
Prepared by Z. Fareen Parvez, UC Berkeley
Distributed by the Sociologists for Women in Society
Women, Poverty and Welfare Reform

http://www.socwomen.org/socactivism/factwelfare.pdf

About 90 percent of the TANF heads of households are single mothers.
http://womensenews.org/story/economyeconomic-policy/100319/at-welfare-hearings-calls-help-single-mothers

90% of welfare parents are single mothers

10% married

36% divorced/widowed/separated

54% never married

http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html

Over 90 percent of welfare parents are single mothers.—U.S. Department of Labor, Employment and Training Administration

http://salt.claretianpubs.org/stats/welref/profile.html

Two percent of total welfare recipients are married couples; Thirty-six percent are divorced, widowed, or separated persons; Fifty-four percent were never married.—U.S. Department of Labor, Employment and Training Administration
http://salt.claretianpubs.org/stats/welref/profile.html

A General Profile of the Welfare Population – Urban Institute


90% of welfare parents are single mothers
10% married
36% divorced/widowed/separated
54% never married


Most welfare mothers are in their 20s and 30s
6% under 20 years of age
24% 20-24 years of age
22% 25-29 years of age
35% 30-39 years of age
13% 40 years of age or older


Welfare mothers are distributed among the major ethnic groups
37% White
36% African-American
20% Hispanic
6% Other


Academic levels of welfare recipients cover the full range of educational attainment
16% some college
42% completed high school
42% less than high school

http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html



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cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:32 PM
That's why I was asking her. She already explained.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting Radarma:

 FS,



Within one of the source responses...below, this is certainly a demographic worthy of mention, yes?  <> There are many women who have waited to procreate in order to line up the ducks, all the while the clock continues to tick and eventually they are faced with the ultimate decision OF single parenthood. There are those women too. (pointing this out because sometimes ppl mistake your posts for meaning: 'single mothers suck and are dumb'...lol)



Anywhos...enjoyed her style, thanks for sharing her!


What exactly do you like about this? That she feels she MUST make another one of her? That the "need" to have a child trumps all else and justifies herself?

She is talking about two different people here.  The quote is from a commenter, not the author.  The author is the one whose style she enjoys.


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