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“Why Is It O.K. To Have a Child with Someone You Know Won’t Stick Around?”

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This question comes from a blogger whom I greatly admire and respect.  However, her audience is black women so I will not post her entire article here, since I am not trying to ask this question of any one race.

For anyone interested, the article can be read here:

http://familyscholars.org/2012/06/22/why-is-it-o-k-to-have-a-child-with-someone-you-know-wont-stick-around/comment-page-1/#comment-130508


by on Dec. 8, 2012 at 9:46 PM
Replies (201-210):
cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Same funds are drawn.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting cueballsmom:

sooo, how does a person get social security disability, despite never having worked? Sure, you have to have enough "points" to qualify, but it is not a "savings account". It works the same as welfare. Any body who was SMART won't need SS, because they would have had a retirement plan.





You and I are not paying into a

savings plan. Neither did your great aunt. We are paying in what is

being given to her now. That is how it works. You are "entitled" to

social security the same way as you are "entitled" to any other

welfare. Those that work are paying for those that don't.

This is incorrect.  If you do not work you do not get social security unless you were married and your spouse worked.  When you do get social security everyone gets a different amount, because everyone gets an amount based upon what they paid in.

They don't.  They get SSI instead. 

Social Security's Supplemental Security Income (SSI) Program

www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm - Cached - Similar

Oct 9, 2012 ... The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled
adults and children who have limited income and resources.

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:38 PM


Quoting Billiejeens:


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting SunshneDaydream:

Because there's so much negative stigma surrounding abortion that to many people becoming a single parent is the better option. 

I agree that is a huge problem that should be changed.  Also, better or more frequent use of the most reliable forms of contraception should also be encouraged.  Unfortunately many of the most anti-choice people are also against contraception.

I don't think so.

If you would like to read more about this:

Anti-abortion = anti-contraception?
It may come as a shock to most pro-life Americans, but there’s not one pro-life group in the United States that supports contraception. Rather, many lead campaigns against contraception. As [anti-abortion yet pro-contraception] Congressman [Tim] Ryan explained, “I think the pro-life groups are finding themselves further and further removed from the mainstream; they’re on the fringe of this debate.” Considering that the average woman spends 23 years of her life trying not to get pregnant, the anti-contraception approach depends on a scourge of sexless marriages or a lot of wishful thinking.
http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/07/31/anti-abortion-anti-contraception/

Why the Anti-Choice Movement Is on the Verge of Civil War
When it comes to contraception, anti-chociers are alienating their own kind.


Congressman Tim Ryan (D-OH) is, in many ways, a typical pro-life American. He opposes abortion and, because of that, supports every effort to prevent the need for it. Just like most pro-life Americans, Ryan supports contraception -- primarily because it is the most effective way to prevent unintended pregnancy, and thereby abortion. And yet because of this, Ryan no longer qualifies as "pro-life."
http://www.alternet.org/story/141673/why_the_anti-choice_movement_is_on_the_verge_of_civil_war


Physicians for Life
Ethical and Medical Aspects of Contraception and Abortifacients
...Lauded as a blessing on the one hand but cursed on the other, it has brought about the most wide-ranging ideological and social changes.
For the first time in human history, it became possible to separate sex and reproduction to a large extent. This previously private activity now suddenly forced itself into the public arena. The “right” to freely available sex, with the breaking of all previous limits, was demanded. The principle of pleasure took precedence over the biological purpose of sex, namely procreation. In theory, it was the “pornography wave”, coupled with the sexual revolution which set this process in motion; in fact, it was brought about by an “anti-conception mentality”.
As part of this process, something previously unheard of occurred: birth control became an almost wholly medical matter. The doctor, until then the promoter and guardian of life, unexpectedly and initially unwittingly became an accessory to the prevention of life, and thus to an enormous reduction of births, the consequences of which will cause much suffering in the Western world.
To read the rest:
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/489/36/

What is the pro-life stance on contraception, including methods that prevent conception?

As a physician, what is the right decision to make when a woman asks for birth control? What if she is living below the poverty line, has 3 or 4 children, hasn’t obtained a high-school diploma, and is co-habiting with a man who needs to support her financially? Presumably, she’s aware of the possibility of pregnancy and could be afraid of how she will feed and clothe another child.
What do you say?  What’s the pragmatic response here?
Here’s how that conversation should be started:
1) Birth Control, no matter what form, doesn’t prevent abortions. In fact, it provides a false sense of security.
The Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood’s own research arm, released study showing that condoms fail 14% of the time. That’s enough to provide some concern, especially when coupled with the Guttmacher’s own numbers showing that over half of all abortions are on women who were using some method of birth control. This evidence contradicts the pro-abortion propaganda claiming that if women had better access to birth control, abortions would become unnecessary.
Well, clearly not.
Contraception gives women a false sense of security, and condoms and birth control clearly can’t be relied on as a fail-proof method of stopping a pregnancy from occurring.
2) Birth control comes with its own complications and risks. It some cases, it’s deadly for both the child and mother.
To read the rest:
http://studentsforlife.org/contraception/

Pro-Life really means Anti-Contraception
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/pro-life-really-means-anti-contraceptio

Some examples of their views:


Contraception, by this logic, encourages sexual promiscuity, sexual deviance (like homosexuality) and a preoccupation with sex that is unhealthful even within marriage.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/pro-life-really-means-anti-contraceptio



The sex act and sexual desire should not be separated from reproduction, he and others warned, else "a man may, in effect, make a whore of his own wife."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/magazine/07contraception.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:44 PM


Quoting mehamil1:

That is not what I said at all. I am speaking from an sociological point of view (I have a B.A. in Sociology) and with a mix of anthropological views with the biology aspect of humanity (Anthropology, biological anthropology was my minor for sociology, my other BA is Women's Studies with a minor in Social Work).

I am speaking from the macro perspective, from the larger/grander view. I'm taking the long view. And yes, our society has changed that much. This is my educated opinion based on a shit ton of research over many years. Family values have changed but that does not mean it has to be negative. Society and the institutions within it must adapt to these changes in order for these changes to not be negative. Embrace the change because we are not going back. Adapt to the changes so the consequences are not dire and a whole host of children and their parents are left in the dust because our society has held on to the past kicking and screaming that before was a better way. We are doing things differently now. We must adapt to it. 

Quoting lga1965:
Not everyone has changed that much. And. I don't believe the culture and values have changed that much either except in
areas where there is poverty and lack of education. Giving up on family values is a.negative change, nothing to be proud of. Some change is not good. Being unmarried is not "being modern and "with it "/span>
Quoting mehamil1:

You are looking at this with western 21st century socially conservative family values (ie, don't have them babies till you are married/in a stable relationship) and ignoring the very very very human aspect of this. 

Our culture has changed. We value different things. And in order for this influx of single parents to not turn out as you think it will, more help needs to be allocated to parents system wide, at the macro level, institutionally. Times have changed we are not going back. We need to adapt to the change or suffer the consequences. Not hold on to the past and try like all hell to swim upstream. 

Humans have been walking around in this form for about 1.2 million years, give or take. Our brains became what they are now possible 250,000 years ago, give or take. We've been living in an agricultural society for the past 10,000 years, give or take. Our ways and culture and values and morals are CONSTANTLY changing. That is part of being human. Always has been.

Look at this issue from the human perspective, not the "what is right" perspective. Because when it comes to us, that is constantly changing. Your answer lies in there.  

Quoting futureshock:
Quoting mehamil1:

Because we're fucking human. 

Everyone is human and this is happening so much more in just the recent past, even just since 2002.  I would really like to understand what is at the root of this sudden jump in numbers.

The facts are that there has been a dramatic increase in the numbers of single parents just since even 2002. Something is causing this and it cannot be birth control failure since birth control did not suddenly become less reliable since 2002. 

Quote:

"After having relative stability in births to unmarried women from the mid 1990s to 2002, we've seen really big increases between 2002 and 2007," said Stephanie J. Ventura, director of the Reproductive Statistics Branch at the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics and author of the report.
In the United States, out-of-wedlock births increased by 26 percent between 2002 and 2007, according to the report. In 1980, the rate of out-of-wedlock births was 18 percent.
Though the reasons for the increase are not clear, Ventura said, one factor might be that having a child when you're not married is no longer stigmatized.
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2009/05/13/more-single-women-are-having-babie


Not all of society has moved en masse in the direction of large scale unwed childbearing. This is primarily occurring in certain segments of the population, and largely not occurring in others.


Joqui
by Joqui on Dec. 10, 2012 at 2:36 PM

because we are hormonal wack jobs some times. LOL

I agree with others that quotes my reply, it doesn't ALWAYS happen like that but I've known a few women that have done it and have failed miserably only to end up bitter. 

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting Joqui:

If you want an honest to god answer from me. I feel that women who do this, regardless of race, are doing it to try to KEEP that man. Thinking that maybe by having a child with that man that man will be compelled to change. 

I agree, this does happen frequently. 

I wonder why it happens so frequently, though?  Don't they see this backfiring on other women who have tried it?



LaceNBklyn
by Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 3:00 PM
And like I SAID you never KNOW because even if the person says im NOT sticking around your on your own even he can make a total change when the child is born. Just like those who are there threw the whole pregnancy and then disappear after. I know two females who's children's fathers where there throughout the whole pregnancy. One vanished right after the other stopped coming around when they got a new girlfriend when the kids were 3. So as I said before you never know. No one can predict the future. And lastly you should NOT have a child for anyone but yourself because at the end of the day the mother is always going to be the one to have to stick around. A woman should have a child because she is willing.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting LaceNBklyn:

You never know who is going to stick around and who is going to ditch you. And there are single moms in every race.

Did you read the title and the op?

You never know who is going to stick around and who is going to ditch you.

“Why Is It O.K. To Have a Child with Someone You Know Won’t Stick Around?”

And there are single moms in every race.

This
question comes from a blogger whom I greatly admire and respect. 
However, her audience is black women so I will not post her entire
article here, since I am not trying to ask this question of any one
race.

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
SunshneDaydream
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 3:56 PM


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting SunshneDaydream:

That is just plain incorrect.  I am very publicly pro-choice, but if I ever had an abortion, I would not sing it from the rooftops.  I would not even tell my parents.  I would probably only share it with my bestest best friend and my husband.  It is a terrible thing to do, and if there's an option to just be a single parent instead, most will choose to do that, because abortion is so awful. 

Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting SunshneDaydream:





Sadly, no.




You feel this way because that is how you have been conditioned to feel.  Many people feel differently.

Read something I wrote a while ago to see what I mean, if you want:

Life Only Begins At Conception If You Want To Believe It Does

That's what I mean though.  Perhaps too many people are conditioned to feel abortion is so horrible that a better alternative is single parenthood.  The people who don't feel it's too horrible to be an option will choose it, and not add to the problem of single parenthood. 

Phillymama123
by Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 6:52 PM
In some cases because birth control, used correctly, failed. In some cases they are raped. In some cases they think the father will stick around. And they manage to support themselves entirely on their income. And no public assistance. And silently think "f you" to every mother on this site who say they are paying for the mistakes of all single women while they live off their husbands. And teach their children that education, employment, etc lack importance all that matters is getting married. And kindness doesn't matter only the ability to judge others. And funny enough, even women on pa are less judgemental and less worried about the lives of others. Funny, isn't it, how cruel women are in the face of lives they know nothing about.
survivorinohio
by René on Dec. 10, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Its not just about being smart.  Emotional/mental health and well being come into play quite a bit.

Quoting lga1965:

 Yeah...its NOT okay to have a child with someone you know won't stick around. Why would you even have sex with an unreliable guy? well, you don't.

Here's what you do: You date a guy, you wait  to get more involved ( have sex) until you know he is a good guy who is reliable. THEN,when you both want to get married... you get married.. You get married and you wait until you can tell the marriage is solid and that he wants a baby. THEN you have a child. Simple. Easy peasy. 

This can apply to everyone---white,black,yellow,red.....get the idea here? Its just a matter of being smart.


How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


specialwingz
by Bronze Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 6:59 PM

There is no guarantee whatsoever that ANY person will stick around.  Whether it be a day or a decade or more.  And, in the same turn, many who do stick around, shouldn't have.  There are just way too many variables for there to be a definitive answer to this question.

Quoting futureshock:

Here is an excerpt:

[T]he real question shouldn’t be why [people don't] value marriage, but why the some folks think it’s okay to make a child without ensuring that the other parent stick around.


lga1965
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 7:10 PM

 That's true. I could go on and on about how important it is to raise kids with self esteem and healthy goals. Parents need to raise both boys and girls to feel good about themselves so that they are not desperate to belong to a crowd that might not be good for them and feel secure and happy enough with themselves and their home  to avoid having "needy sex". "Needy sex" is when teens are lonely and feeling that they need SOMEBODY to love them ( a childish kind of love) and they want to feel really really good so they think sex is the answer.

But the big question is : How do we get parents to raise their kids the best way . Prevention is the key.

Quoting survivorinohio:

Its not just about being smart.  Emotional/mental health and well being come into play quite a bit.

Quoting lga1965:

 Yeah...its NOT okay to have a child with someone you know won't stick around. Why would you even have sex with an unreliable guy? well, you don't.

Here's what you do: You date a guy, you wait  to get more involved ( have sex) until you know he is a good guy who is reliable. THEN,when you both want to get married... you get married.. You get married and you wait until you can tell the marriage is solid and that he wants a baby. THEN you have a child. Simple. Easy peasy. 

This can apply to everyone---white,black,yellow,red.....get the idea here? Its just a matter of being smart.


 

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