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Christians successfully restore prayer to board meetings

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The Miami-Dade Board of County Commissioners has voted to restore prayer to open meetings.

In 2004, two members of the board decided they were offended with Christian prayer and successfully lobbied fellow members to open instead with a moment of silence. The Christian Family Coalition got to work and one of the hostile members was replaced with a Christian, as spokesman Anthony Verdugo explains.

Verdugo

"To eliminate religious speech in the form of solemnizing the prayer is discrimination, and so what we told the commissioners is all we want to do is restore free-speech rights and restore speech equality so that everyone can speak openly and freely so long as it's civil discourse," he tells OneNewsNow.

The commission voted 8-3 to restore prayer prior to the roll call for the meeting.

"We are a metropolitan area, but we also have to be an inclusive and welcoming community and we talk about being inclusive and welcoming and tolerant," he says. "That includes people of faith also because we too are part of this community. We're not isolated from it, so our free-speech rights must also be respected and upheld."

Under the policy, the commissioners will select on a rotating basis someone from the area to conduct the prayer -- or commissioners themselves can elect to offer the prayer.

source

by on Dec. 9, 2012 at 7:24 AM
Replies (321-330):
LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Dec. 12, 2012 at 5:45 PM
1 mom liked this
It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.


Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.


Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?


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KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Dec. 12, 2012 at 5:47 PM
It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)
Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.


Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.


Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?


LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Dec. 12, 2012 at 5:52 PM

 A perfect example of Christian entitlement (and I'm speaking from a Christian perspective).

Quoting KamWorthy:

It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)
Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.


candlegal
by Judy on Dec. 12, 2012 at 6:01 PM
1 mom liked this

yes it does, some of us find it morally repugnant that they had to stop praying because of one person.

Quoting KamWorthy:

It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)
Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.


Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.


Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?



romalove
by Roma on Dec. 12, 2012 at 6:12 PM
1 mom liked this
Good grief no one had to stop praying. That was why they had a moment of silence.

Quoting candlegal:

yes it does, some of us find it morally repugnant that they had to stop praying because of one person.

Quoting KamWorthy:

It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.





Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.





Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?




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LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Dec. 12, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Not really. But I am not shocked you would think so. Excluding all but one is something most learn on the playground is a horrible way to behave. Unfortunately, some Christians never learned that lesson.


ETA: was meant for Kam
Quoting candlegal:

yes it does, some of us find it morally repugnant that they had to stop praying because of one person.

Quoting KamWorthy:

It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.





Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.





Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?






Posted on CafeMom Mobile
LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Dec. 12, 2012 at 7:11 PM
You are lying. Nobody had to stop praying. They only had to share the time. A concept that, yes, is repugnant to many self entitled Chriatians like yourself.


Quoting candlegal:

yes it does, some of us find it morally repugnant that they had to stop praying because of one person.

Quoting KamWorthy:

It all depends on what side you're on I guess. ;)

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

It is morally repugnant to turn an all inclusive moment of silence into a majority rules exclusive prayer session, especially at a government meeting.





Quoting KamWorthy:

Eh, no, of course not lol... apparently according to the Miami-Dade Board of county Commissioners this is not forced prayer. This is one of those instances where you and others may not like the outcome, but the votes have spoken. Just like in this last political election. The people voted into law what they wanted. It is what it is.





Quoting Raintree:


Quoting KamWorthy:

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in freedom of expression at all". -Noam Chomsky

Are you thinking that old Noam thinks that coerced, governmental prayer is 'freedom of expression'?





Posted on CafeMom Mobile
tweety101149
by Platinum Member on Dec. 12, 2012 at 8:40 PM


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting LilyofPhilly:

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:6.


Interesting.  While we are to not pray openly in vain, we are in fact called to pray for and with one another. 

As much as you and others want Christians to check their faith at the doors of their home and church, we have a RIGHT to practice our religion freely and openly and a core practice for Christians is prayer. 


Oh..here it comes,  to disagree with you and you cry persecution.  No one is denying your right to practice your religion, to lead prayer before the government meeting starts, is over-stepping the bounds of religion into government.    I am quite sure Christians would not like it if another religion decided to lead the  government meeting under another religion's prayer.

butterfly on headlynda  




12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Dec. 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting tweety101149:

 

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting LilyofPhilly:

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:6.


Interesting.  While we are to not pray openly in vain, we are in fact called to pray for and with one another. 

As much as you and others want Christians to check their faith at the doors of their home and church, we have a RIGHT to practice our religion freely and openly and a core practice for Christians is prayer. 


Oh..here it comes,  to disagree with you and you cry persecution.  No one is denying your right to practice your religion, to lead prayer before the government meeting starts, is over-stepping the bounds of religion into government.    I am quite sure Christians would not like it if another religion decided to lead the  government meeting under another religion's prayer.

It seems many people have no understanding of what is allowed and what is not allowed.  To start the opening prayer is to be a general pray, not one to condemn or convert.  I think someone a few pages back gave an example of a pagan opening prayer.  So it's likely a person would not know the specific religious or non-religious belief of the person giving the opening prayer.    

ChutterButter
by Member on Dec. 13, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Would you feel the same way if they broke out their candles, altar, and tools and opened a circle? What if they wanted to chant and dance around the room? Would that also not constitute free speech? Would it be considered disrespectful or rude if someone in the room said their own prayer aloud to another god during this time?

Quoting 12hellokitty:


No they wished to practice their Constitutional right to free speech.  Trying to silence their free speech is infringing upon their rights.  Those who don't wish to participate can close their ears...

Quoting romalove:

They wished to pray organized without regards for anyone else.

Quoting 12hellokitty:



Quoting romalove:


If I was a praying person and I lived there I would be praying for county commissioners who understood the First Amendment and that they were elected to serve all the people of their district, and not just the Christians.


They had free speech rights to pray during the moment of silence, however they wished to.  Now they took away the free speech rights of anyone who doesn't want to pray the same way.


Just completely stupid.  


No it didn't.  It was forcing them to pray in silence, which was not how they wished to pray... 



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