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OT If you are against cropping and docking then why spay and neuter?

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I am a vet tech and I posted in another group how I have preformed several crop and dock jobs (yes I can do that). People started going off how it is cruel and where I can see the point I don't see how you can be anti-crop and dock but pro-spay and neuter. I am not pro or anti either. I don't do either but I am not against them. 

Let me set some facts about each

Cropping and docking: Depending on the vet and the breeder it is done between 3 days and 12 weeks (no later than 12 weeks either way) under general anesthesia (or full anesthesia depending on the vet. Cropping is the removal of undeveloped cartilage and the pups feel no pain during or after (afterwards they just want mommy and some food). Docking hurts like hell but they get over it.  Trust me, with  puppies you can tell if they are in pain (they cry). Pain meds are still given The healing process takes about 10-14 days and then the stitches fall out (at least our stitches fall out, some may need to be removed but it doesn't feel like anything). You may have to clean the area to keep it nice and dry and the dogs usually show no sign of pain during. Annoyance, yes but not pain. Afterwards, depending on the length of the crop, the ears are either posted to keep them up or left alone to stand on their own. While the pups are healing they are allowed to play, and crawl over each other all they want

Spaying and Neutering: Is usually done with adolescent or adult dogs under anesthesia. It is the removal of fully developed, or close to fully developed, reproductive organs. The dogs are usually in need of pain medicines and a E-collar (the cone of shame) to stop the dogs from being in pain and picking at the wounds.  The dogs are encouraged to sit still as the stitches could tear open. Also if you attempted to touch it the dog will squeal and let you know of the pain. The healing process is about 10-14 days.

I fail to see any difference here.  So I find it a bit hypocritical to be against one but for another.


Spay and Neuter myths

1. It calms them down

-Spaying or neutering a dog does not change its activity level. The dog may be calm when it realizes that running hurts like hell but after the pain is over they will be back to normal. 

2. It will make them less aggressive

- Uhh no. Aggression is in the brain, not the balls. Altering a dog will not make it any less aggressive. If a dog is truly aggressive, aggressive then that is genetic and only euthanasia can cure it.  Sorry but its true. Unless you are the type that can actually control it.

3. It makes them fat

-No, you make them fat by over feeding and not exercising.

4. If I neuter my cat/dog then he will stop peeing in the house

-There is a difference between spaying and peeing. If the cat/dog is urinating in your house then that is because of a lack of training on your part. Cutting out their organs will not stop it. 

5. If I neuter my males/females they will stop fighting

-*Buzzer noise* wrong. If your pets are already fighting then altering will not stop it. They have already got into the habit of fighting. They will not stop.


Crop and dock myths

1. It makes them look tough

-No it makes you look stupid for even thinking that. Sure the dog looks like something straight out of hell until you go up to it and it licks you to death. Even then if the surgeries are done professionally and the dog doesn't look like a beast that has got into a fight with a chainsaw then there is nothing "tough" about it.

2. Cropping/docking makes them mean

- Once again. Aggression is in the brain, not the ears or tail.

3. They get more infections

-Nope. Actually dogs with upright ears (Cropped or natural) are less likely to get infections because air and moisture is allowed to move in and out freely as opposed to getting trapped inside. And dogs with cropped tails are less likely to get tail injuries (can't injure what you don't have)

4. It hurts into adulthood

-Feel your ears with those earrings dangling out of them. Do they still hurt? No, right? So take into account that dogs have a higher pain tolerance than us and that they do not live in the past and then you will understand how wrong that myth is. In all actuality, the pups forget about it by the time they go home.

5. No good vet will do them

-False. A good vet will put the wants of their clients first. Instead of saying no and sending you in the direction of some idiot in his backyard with a pair of scissors and a band-aid.


So yea. Idc if you are against it or not. Just don't be against one and not the other. It is basically the same. I haven't cropped a pet of my own nor spayed/ neutered my pets. I have to spay/neuter my rescues because that is the law but unless my pets were altered beforehand then they are not fixed. I don't mind if you do it (Its your choice what you do with your pets) and I will be glad to oblidge if I am asked to assist with one or preform one. 


Edit: This is not a comparison. This is a question. If your only reason to be against cropping and docking is because "it hurts" then why be pro S/N. You are aware that the removal of reproductive organs hurts even more right?

by on Dec. 9, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Replies (131-140):
AliKatCam
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Lol. By that logic one okay but the other is just cosmetic. I would expect a tech to put it the other way. Ear cropping could actually have a use for a working dog. However docking slows down even working dogs (and it hurts more).  

Quoting PortiaRose:

I just spoke to a friend of mine who is a vet tech. She put it this way: "nose job/cropping, circumcision/docking.


I wasn't expecting to hear that at all, but whatever.


EireLass
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 5:22 PM

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."
What???


CAluv
by Bronze Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 5:46 PM

 Fine, I'll bite.

Didn't read through all the responses so sorry if this was posted already; keeping unspayed dogs and cats and never letting them breed is kind of cruel because the females still go into heat all the time, and males are tortured with stimulation by females in heat as well. Neutering puts these urges to a halt (or at least drastically reduces them) and gives the animal a more peaceful existence.

IDK what your neighbors have to say if you have a female cat or dog and every time it comes into heat, some unneutered male from literally miles away is loitering in their yards, trying to get to yours or if you have a male dog that barks his brains out every time someone's unspayed female goes into heat, or a couple of tomcats start yowling it up because of your intact cat. Mine would be pissed.

PortiaRose
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 7:44 PM
Its everyones business what we do to our pets.

Quoting EireLass:

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."

What???


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
EireLass
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:07 PM

Ok. I'll play along. Why is what I do with my dogs, cat, chickens, ducks your business? What is the standard to you that my pets should be living up to?

Quoting PortiaRose:

Its everyones business what we do to our pets.
Quoting EireLass:

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."
What???


DivingDiva
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:12 PM

Spend a month at your local animal shelter performing the euthanizations of all the wonderful animals that die just because there are not enough homes for them all.  Then you will understand why I'm for anything that will decrease the dog and cat overpopulation epidemic that exists in the USA.  If you can give me any reason as compelling for cropping/docking surgery I will seriously reconsider my position on a procedure that I consider to be unnecessary and ugly. 

EireLass
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:27 PM
1 mom liked this

I spent many years euthanizing dogs and cats. That still has no effect on my decision to not neuter my dog. It's the difference between choosing to control or not control your pet. At 4 years old I had my dog docked to 4". He exibited no pain, no licking or nawing at the stitches, and no residual negative behaviours.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Spend a month at your local animal shelter performing the euthanizations of all the wonderful animals that die just because there are not enough homes for them all.  Then you will understand why I'm for anything that will decrease the dog and cat overpopulation epidemic that exists in the USA.  If you can give me any reason as compelling for cropping/docking surgery I will seriously reconsider my position on a procedure that I consider to be unnecessary and ugly. 


DivingDiva
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:31 PM
1 mom liked this

 

Quoting EireLass:

I spent many years euthanizing dogs and cats. That still has no effect on my decision to not neuter my dog. It's the difference between choosing to control or not control your pet. At 4 years old I had my dog docked to 4". He exibited no pain, no licking or nawing at the stitches, and no residual negative behaviours.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Spend a month at your local animal shelter performing the euthanizations of all the wonderful animals that die just because there are not enough homes for them all.  Then you will understand why I'm for anything that will decrease the dog and cat overpopulation epidemic that exists in the USA.  If you can give me any reason as compelling for cropping/docking surgery I will seriously reconsider my position on a procedure that I consider to be unnecessary and ugly. 


I saw so very many "oopsie" litters from cats and dogs during the time I worked at a vet's office.  Based on that experience I'm skeptical of the "I can control my pet" line.  Just because it hasn't happened to you yet does not mean it never will. 

I'm glad your dog was ok after docking but I still find it to be an ugly and pointless operation. 

AliKatCam
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:41 PM
I am starting to like you.

Quoting EireLass:

I spent many years euthanizing dogs and cats. That still has no effect on my decision to not neuter my dog. It's the difference between choosing to control or not control your pet. At 4 years old I had my dog docked to 4". He exibited no pain, no licking or nawing at the stitches, and no residual negative behaviours.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Spend a month at your local animal shelter performing the euthanizations of all the wonderful animals that die just because there are not enough homes for them all.  Then you will understand why I'm for anything that will decrease the dog and cat overpopulation epidemic that exists in the USA.  If you can give me any reason as compelling for cropping/docking surgery I will seriously reconsider my position on a procedure that I consider to be unnecessary and ugly. 


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
AliKatCam
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 9:43 PM
What? It is no ones business what you do with your pets unless you are doing something illegal.

Quoting PortiaRose:

Its everyones business what we do to our pets.



Quoting EireLass:

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."


What???


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
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