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OT If you are against cropping and docking then why spay and neuter?

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I am a vet tech and I posted in another group how I have preformed several crop and dock jobs (yes I can do that). People started going off how it is cruel and where I can see the point I don't see how you can be anti-crop and dock but pro-spay and neuter. I am not pro or anti either. I don't do either but I am not against them. 

Let me set some facts about each

Cropping and docking: Depending on the vet and the breeder it is done between 3 days and 12 weeks (no later than 12 weeks either way) under general anesthesia (or full anesthesia depending on the vet. Cropping is the removal of undeveloped cartilage and the pups feel no pain during or after (afterwards they just want mommy and some food). Docking hurts like hell but they get over it.  Trust me, with  puppies you can tell if they are in pain (they cry). Pain meds are still given The healing process takes about 10-14 days and then the stitches fall out (at least our stitches fall out, some may need to be removed but it doesn't feel like anything). You may have to clean the area to keep it nice and dry and the dogs usually show no sign of pain during. Annoyance, yes but not pain. Afterwards, depending on the length of the crop, the ears are either posted to keep them up or left alone to stand on their own. While the pups are healing they are allowed to play, and crawl over each other all they want

Spaying and Neutering: Is usually done with adolescent or adult dogs under anesthesia. It is the removal of fully developed, or close to fully developed, reproductive organs. The dogs are usually in need of pain medicines and a E-collar (the cone of shame) to stop the dogs from being in pain and picking at the wounds.  The dogs are encouraged to sit still as the stitches could tear open. Also if you attempted to touch it the dog will squeal and let you know of the pain. The healing process is about 10-14 days.

I fail to see any difference here.  So I find it a bit hypocritical to be against one but for another.


Spay and Neuter myths

1. It calms them down

-Spaying or neutering a dog does not change its activity level. The dog may be calm when it realizes that running hurts like hell but after the pain is over they will be back to normal. 

2. It will make them less aggressive

- Uhh no. Aggression is in the brain, not the balls. Altering a dog will not make it any less aggressive. If a dog is truly aggressive, aggressive then that is genetic and only euthanasia can cure it.  Sorry but its true. Unless you are the type that can actually control it.

3. It makes them fat

-No, you make them fat by over feeding and not exercising.

4. If I neuter my cat/dog then he will stop peeing in the house

-There is a difference between spaying and peeing. If the cat/dog is urinating in your house then that is because of a lack of training on your part. Cutting out their organs will not stop it. 

5. If I neuter my males/females they will stop fighting

-*Buzzer noise* wrong. If your pets are already fighting then altering will not stop it. They have already got into the habit of fighting. They will not stop.


Crop and dock myths

1. It makes them look tough

-No it makes you look stupid for even thinking that. Sure the dog looks like something straight out of hell until you go up to it and it licks you to death. Even then if the surgeries are done professionally and the dog doesn't look like a beast that has got into a fight with a chainsaw then there is nothing "tough" about it.

2. Cropping/docking makes them mean

- Once again. Aggression is in the brain, not the ears or tail.

3. They get more infections

-Nope. Actually dogs with upright ears (Cropped or natural) are less likely to get infections because air and moisture is allowed to move in and out freely as opposed to getting trapped inside. And dogs with cropped tails are less likely to get tail injuries (can't injure what you don't have)

4. It hurts into adulthood

-Feel your ears with those earrings dangling out of them. Do they still hurt? No, right? So take into account that dogs have a higher pain tolerance than us and that they do not live in the past and then you will understand how wrong that myth is. In all actuality, the pups forget about it by the time they go home.

5. No good vet will do them

-False. A good vet will put the wants of their clients first. Instead of saying no and sending you in the direction of some idiot in his backyard with a pair of scissors and a band-aid.


So yea. Idc if you are against it or not. Just don't be against one and not the other. It is basically the same. I haven't cropped a pet of my own nor spayed/ neutered my pets. I have to spay/neuter my rescues because that is the law but unless my pets were altered beforehand then they are not fixed. I don't mind if you do it (Its your choice what you do with your pets) and I will be glad to oblidge if I am asked to assist with one or preform one. 


Edit: This is not a comparison. This is a question. If your only reason to be against cropping and docking is because "it hurts" then why be pro S/N. You are aware that the removal of reproductive organs hurts even more right?

by on Dec. 9, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Replies (151-160):
EireLass
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 11:04 PM

While I was doing ACO work, the gas chamber was the 'mode of death', as the town refused to pay for vet care/euthenasia. If I had to go pick up a badly injured dog, that I couldn't doctor up, I'd just pull him into the dirt off the road and shoot him. It was much more humane than the gas chamber.

It was never legal to take a deer that you or anyone had hit. You had to call the state and they'd take it.

Quoting AliKatCam:

It is not exactly okay to shoot your gun by someone's house. Common curteousy is to take Fido for his final walk and take him into the woods. You may hit a deer by accident and then its venison. Lol.

Quoting EireLass:

If you put the barrel of the gun right behind ear, 1 shot will do it instantly. I've done many. It's not illegal, but depending on where you live, the law is concerned with discharging a firearm X amount of feet from a dwelling.

Quoting AliKatCam:

That is seeking euthanasia. As far as I know shooting a dog to put it out of its misery has never been illegal. As long as the shot kills them instantaneously. I get my dogs rabies vaccinations and do the rest at home.  My dogs will be sent in for help if it is something that is not life threatening but can't be treated at home. Like a broken leg or a broken rib or something that requires surgery. I don't have an x-ray scanner and a full lab in my house so I can not fully diagnose the issue at home. 

Quoting EireLass:

If my dog was dying in my backyard (and I knew he was dying, not just sick), I would shoot him. I do most health care for my animals at home. We do vax for rabies. However, we don't vax for anything else. We don't use any chemical topical solutions for pests either.

Quoting AliKatCam:

If your dog is dying in your backyard and you fail to do anything (even if that means seeking euthanasia) then it is illegal. Have you never watched Animal Cops? lol. If the dog is suffering from an illness or injury and you don't do anything then it is illegal. It is also mandatory to get a rabies vaccination.  

Quoting EireLass:

Obama care for dogs? haha What type of denied healthcare is illegal?

Quoting AliKatCam:

So owning a Chihuahua in an apartment makes you a POS? Even if the dog is exercised each day and well taken care of? I had two dogs in a tiny ass apartment when I was just starting out. I took them running each day. I played with them and trained them. Dogs don't give a rats ass where they live as long as they are a part of a pack. And kicking your dog and denying them healthcare are BOTH illegal.
Quoting PortiaRose:

I don't care who you are or whatever, if you have a dog in a tiny ass apt, you're a POS. If you don't take care of their health, walk em, play with em, you're a POS. Kick em, obviously a POS. That stuff. Not illegal shit but wretched nonetheless.
Quoting AliKatCam:

What? It is no ones business what you do with your pets unless you are doing something illegal.
Quoting PortiaRose:

Its everyones business what we do to our pets.
Quoting EireLass:

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."
What???
pampire
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.

AliKatCam
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I was kidding about the venison thing. I agree that it is much more humane than the gas chamber.

Quoting EireLass:

While I was doing ACO work, the gas chamber was the 'mode of death', as the town refused to pay for vet care/euthenasia. If I had to go pick up a badly injured dog, that I couldn't doctor up, I'd just pull him into the dirt off the road and shoot him. It was much more humane than the gas chamber.

It was never legal to take a deer that you or anyone had hit. You had to call the state and they'd take it.

Quoting AliKatCam:

It is not exactly okay to shoot your gun by someone's house. Common curteousy is to take Fido for his final walk and take him into the woods. You may hit a deer by accident and then its venison. Lol.

Quoting EireLass:

If you put the barrel of the gun right behind ear, 1 shot will do it instantly. I've done many. It's not illegal, but depending on where you live, the law is concerned with discharging a firearm X amount of feet from a dwelling.

Quoting AliKatCam:

That is seeking euthanasia. As far as I know shooting a dog to put it out of its misery has never been illegal. As long as the shot kills them instantaneously. I get my dogs rabies vaccinations and do the rest at home.  My dogs will be sent in for help if it is something that is not life threatening but can't be treated at home. Like a broken leg or a broken rib or something that requires surgery. I don't have an x-ray scanner and a full lab in my house so I can not fully diagnose the issue at home. 

Quoting EireLass:

If my dog was dying in my backyard (and I knew he was dying, not just sick), I would shoot him. I do most health care for my animals at home. We do vax for rabies. However, we don't vax for anything else. We don't use any chemical topical solutions for pests either.

Quoting AliKatCam:

If your dog is dying in your backyard and you fail to do anything (even if that means seeking euthanasia) then it is illegal. Have you never watched Animal Cops? lol. If the dog is suffering from an illness or injury and you don't do anything then it is illegal. It is also mandatory to get a rabies vaccination.  

Quoting EireLass:

Obama care for dogs? haha What type of denied healthcare is illegal?

Quoting AliKatCam:

So owning a Chihuahua in an apartment makes you a POS? Even if the dog is exercised each day and well taken care of? I had two dogs in a tiny ass apartment when I was just starting out. I took them running each day. I played with them and trained them. Dogs don't give a rats ass where they live as long as they are a part of a pack. And kicking your dog and denying them healthcare are BOTH illegal.
Quoting PortiaRose:

I don't care who you are or whatever, if you have a dog in a tiny ass apt, you're a POS. If you don't take care of their health, walk em, play with em, you're a POS. Kick em, obviously a POS. That stuff. Not illegal shit but wretched nonetheless.
Quoting AliKatCam:

What? It is no ones business what you do with your pets unless you are doing something illegal.
Quoting PortiaRose:

Its everyones business what we do to our pets.
Quoting EireLass:

What what? You don't agree with that? Do you think someone 3 streets over from you, a stranger, should come over and tell you what you have to do with your pet?

Quoting PortiaRose:

"Its your pet, do what you want with it."
What???


AliKatCam
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 11:20 PM

I don't crop/dock my pets nor spay/neuter them. Never had unwanted puppies and never will. Spaying/Neutering does not stop offspring from being dumped in shelters. Idiots who buy animals and then abandon them when they are not what they wanted contribute to abandoned animals.  Just because someone's pet is not altered does not mean they are contributing to overpopulation. Reputable breeders will never have an "Oops" litter and neither will responsible owners of unaltered dogs.

Cropping is not all for cosmetic reasons. Working dogs are cropped to prevent injury. 

Quoting pampire:

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.


la_bella_vita
by Bella on Dec. 10, 2012 at 11:52 PM

 Our dog is not docked or cropped. He is neutered.

cherylam
by on Dec. 11, 2012 at 9:38 AM

I am a firm believer (and payer) of spaying all dogs... anyone who disagrees should go down to the pound for a day and have to hold the dogs & cats as they are euthanized because there isn't enough homes for all.  Crop & dock?  Up to the owners, but every vet I've ever talked to about it says it's a matter of personal preference, but they'd do it just to prevent, as you said, an idiot in his back yard with a pair a scissors and a bandaid.  Our latest addition came with her tail already docked, but her ears were badly infected with mites and a yeast infection (not cropped), go figure.

Spaying is very painful, but usually within a week or so they are well on the road to recovery.  Any woman who says she doesn't like spaying needs to remember childbirth.  Imagine having 4-6 babies (or more) without an epidural, like women used to have to do.  If you have no sympathy for an animal that can't ask for pain relief, then you're an idiot and an ass.  Your babies given away, never seeing them again.  Dogs DO remember.  Nine out of ten puppies born every year are dead within the first year.  My biggest peeve is those who say they want their children to 'see and experience the beginning of life with a birth'... rent a DVD, for Gods sake, don't put an animal through giving birth to another animal that will most likely die.  And the excuse that it's too darn expensive to spay???  You spend how much every month on bullshit but won't spay your friend, so they can hopefully live a long healthy life???  And some vets have a sliding scale to figure out how much it costs...and adjusts the fee to your income.  Sorry, this is MY personal pet peeve.  Some idiot dropped a Yorkie pup off in our driveway last month.  We've got over $400. into this little girl, just to try to give her a better life, and we are on a VERY limited budget.  She was in heat within a week of getting here, the vet says she is at most 8 months old.

Woodbabe
by Woodie on Dec. 11, 2012 at 10:10 AM


Quoting pampire:

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.

It absolutely serves a purpose...for the health and safety of the dog not to mention hygiene! 

 Sexy If its unladylike, fattening or fun, I'm in!
  

witchybabymomma
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 10:35 AM

 I have actually seen adult dogs get their ears cropped so unless the none over 12 weeks was started in the last few years that part is false.

Other then that the difference I see is that one is purely cosmetic while the other is to try to prevent unwanted puppies from being put into the system where they can be abused or abandoned. Personally I would not like to do either if avoidable.

witchybabymomma
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 10:37 AM

 

Quoting Woodbabe:


Quoting pampire:

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.

It absolutely serves a purpose...for the health and safety of the dog not to mention hygiene! 

 Health, safety, and hygiene?? how so?? Your dogs still need occasional baths and still need their ears cleaned and in fact cropping the ears actually allows more dirt and debris to enter into the ears which would otherwise be kept out.

Woodbabe
by Woodie on Dec. 11, 2012 at 1:25 PM


Quoting witchybabymomma:

 

Quoting Woodbabe:


Quoting pampire:

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.

It absolutely serves a purpose...for the health and safety of the dog not to mention hygiene! 

 Health, safety, and hygiene?? how so?? Your dogs still need occasional baths and still need their ears cleaned and in fact cropping the ears actually allows more dirt and debris to enter into the ears which would otherwise be kept out.

I posted some linked information and it was discussed early on. Working dogs have ear flaps removed to prevent them from being ripped off. Tails are docked on working dogs because of high incidence of painful breakage. Tails are docked on certain dogs like Yorkies because without doing so, feces cannot properly be expelled and it gets caught up under the tail..

 Sexy If its unladylike, fattening or fun, I'm in!
  

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