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OT If you are against cropping and docking then why spay and neuter?

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I am a vet tech and I posted in another group how I have preformed several crop and dock jobs (yes I can do that). People started going off how it is cruel and where I can see the point I don't see how you can be anti-crop and dock but pro-spay and neuter. I am not pro or anti either. I don't do either but I am not against them. 

Let me set some facts about each

Cropping and docking: Depending on the vet and the breeder it is done between 3 days and 12 weeks (no later than 12 weeks either way) under general anesthesia (or full anesthesia depending on the vet. Cropping is the removal of undeveloped cartilage and the pups feel no pain during or after (afterwards they just want mommy and some food). Docking hurts like hell but they get over it.  Trust me, with  puppies you can tell if they are in pain (they cry). Pain meds are still given The healing process takes about 10-14 days and then the stitches fall out (at least our stitches fall out, some may need to be removed but it doesn't feel like anything). You may have to clean the area to keep it nice and dry and the dogs usually show no sign of pain during. Annoyance, yes but not pain. Afterwards, depending on the length of the crop, the ears are either posted to keep them up or left alone to stand on their own. While the pups are healing they are allowed to play, and crawl over each other all they want

Spaying and Neutering: Is usually done with adolescent or adult dogs under anesthesia. It is the removal of fully developed, or close to fully developed, reproductive organs. The dogs are usually in need of pain medicines and a E-collar (the cone of shame) to stop the dogs from being in pain and picking at the wounds.  The dogs are encouraged to sit still as the stitches could tear open. Also if you attempted to touch it the dog will squeal and let you know of the pain. The healing process is about 10-14 days.

I fail to see any difference here.  So I find it a bit hypocritical to be against one but for another.


Spay and Neuter myths

1. It calms them down

-Spaying or neutering a dog does not change its activity level. The dog may be calm when it realizes that running hurts like hell but after the pain is over they will be back to normal. 

2. It will make them less aggressive

- Uhh no. Aggression is in the brain, not the balls. Altering a dog will not make it any less aggressive. If a dog is truly aggressive, aggressive then that is genetic and only euthanasia can cure it.  Sorry but its true. Unless you are the type that can actually control it.

3. It makes them fat

-No, you make them fat by over feeding and not exercising.

4. If I neuter my cat/dog then he will stop peeing in the house

-There is a difference between spaying and peeing. If the cat/dog is urinating in your house then that is because of a lack of training on your part. Cutting out their organs will not stop it. 

5. If I neuter my males/females they will stop fighting

-*Buzzer noise* wrong. If your pets are already fighting then altering will not stop it. They have already got into the habit of fighting. They will not stop.


Crop and dock myths

1. It makes them look tough

-No it makes you look stupid for even thinking that. Sure the dog looks like something straight out of hell until you go up to it and it licks you to death. Even then if the surgeries are done professionally and the dog doesn't look like a beast that has got into a fight with a chainsaw then there is nothing "tough" about it.

2. Cropping/docking makes them mean

- Once again. Aggression is in the brain, not the ears or tail.

3. They get more infections

-Nope. Actually dogs with upright ears (Cropped or natural) are less likely to get infections because air and moisture is allowed to move in and out freely as opposed to getting trapped inside. And dogs with cropped tails are less likely to get tail injuries (can't injure what you don't have)

4. It hurts into adulthood

-Feel your ears with those earrings dangling out of them. Do they still hurt? No, right? So take into account that dogs have a higher pain tolerance than us and that they do not live in the past and then you will understand how wrong that myth is. In all actuality, the pups forget about it by the time they go home.

5. No good vet will do them

-False. A good vet will put the wants of their clients first. Instead of saying no and sending you in the direction of some idiot in his backyard with a pair of scissors and a band-aid.


So yea. Idc if you are against it or not. Just don't be against one and not the other. It is basically the same. I haven't cropped a pet of my own nor spayed/ neutered my pets. I have to spay/neuter my rescues because that is the law but unless my pets were altered beforehand then they are not fixed. I don't mind if you do it (Its your choice what you do with your pets) and I will be glad to oblidge if I am asked to assist with one or preform one. 


Edit: This is not a comparison. This is a question. If your only reason to be against cropping and docking is because "it hurts" then why be pro S/N. You are aware that the removal of reproductive organs hurts even more right?

by on Dec. 9, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Replies (161-170):
witchybabymomma
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 1:57 PM

 

Quoting Woodbabe:


Quoting witchybabymomma:

 

Quoting Woodbabe:


Quoting pampire:

Cropping/Docking is purely cosmetic and serves no purpose.  Use that money to buy health insurance for your pet so when it gets hurt, because you are an irresponsible pet owner, you can still afford proper medical care.

Spaying/Neutering prevents your pet from making babies that will liely end up dumped at a shelter.

It absolutely serves a purpose...for the health and safety of the dog not to mention hygiene! 

 Health, safety, and hygiene?? how so?? Your dogs still need occasional baths and still need their ears cleaned and in fact cropping the ears actually allows more dirt and debris to enter into the ears which would otherwise be kept out.

I posted some linked information and it was discussed early on. Working dogs have ear flaps removed to prevent them from being ripped off. Tails are docked on working dogs because of high incidence of painful breakage. Tails are docked on certain dogs like Yorkies because without doing so, feces cannot properly be expelled and it gets caught up under the tail..

 As far as the tail docking I don't know a lot about that, but I would say 90% of the dogs I have ever seen with their ears cropped was purely for looks ex: Boxers, Dobies, and Pits. The owners are having it done for looks alone. As far as "working" dogs I don't know of any where it would be beneficial. Even dogs used to hunt raccoons, or wild pigs I almost never see them with cropped ears which if going for benefits of keeping them from getting ripped off I would think they would be the best candidates, but they are usually NOT cropped.

Woodbabe
by Woodie on Dec. 11, 2012 at 2:08 PM


 As far as the tail docking I don't know a lot about that, but I would say 90% of the dogs I have ever seen with their ears cropped was purely for looks ex: Boxers, Dobies, and Pits. The owners are having it done for looks alone. As far as "working" dogs I don't know of any where it would be beneficial. Even dogs used to hunt raccoons, or wild pigs I almost never see them with cropped ears which if going for benefits of keeping them from getting ripped off I would think they would be the best candidates, but they are usually NOT cropped.

Ear cropping mostly is for cosmetic reasons these days, but here's a quick history of the working dogs needing it:

http://www.briarleabouvier.com/ear_cropping.htm

I chose not to have my Schnauzer's ears done, but his tail was docked and he had his dewclaws removed.

 Sexy If its unladylike, fattening or fun, I'm in!
  

jonnlilithsmom
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 2:39 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't like cropping or docking because there is no good reason for me to do it... I like long tails and ears on dogs which are born with them... most of the breeds which get cropped or docked are done just for looks, now, when before, they were cropped and docked because they were working dogs, and the cropping and docking was for their safety... shorter ears and tails are less likely to become targets of opponents, whether human or animal, after all.

as for spaying and neutering... a spayed dog cannot have an "accidental" litter... a neutered dog cannot "cause" an "accidental" litter...

spaying and neutering is responsible ownership if you don't want to breed your dog, where docking and cropping is usually only cosmetic... apples and oranges... 

NiCo86
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 2:49 PM
cropping and docking is cosmetic.

spaying and neutering is to prevent pegnancy and implement certain health benefits.
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wickedfiress
by Kellie on Dec. 11, 2012 at 2:54 PM
1 mom liked this
I'm neither for nor against it. However, I am evil and got my kitty declawed also when he was neutered.
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witchybabymomma
by Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 2:59 PM

 

Quoting Woodbabe:

 

 As far as the tail docking I don't know a lot about that, but I would say 90% of the dogs I have ever seen with their ears cropped was purely for looks ex: Boxers, Dobies, and Pits. The owners are having it done for looks alone. As far as "working" dogs I don't know of any where it would be beneficial. Even dogs used to hunt raccoons, or wild pigs I almost never see them with cropped ears which if going for benefits of keeping them from getting ripped off I would think they would be the best candidates, but they are usually NOT cropped.

Ear cropping mostly is for cosmetic reasons these days, but here's a quick history of the working dogs needing it:

http://www.briarleabouvier.com/ear_cropping.htm

I chose not to have my Schnauzer's ears done, but his tail was docked and he had his dewclaws removed.

 That history even describes it as no longer necessary and everything I have seen about docking also seems to be pretty much in agreement that it is not necessary as well. They are done for cosmetic reasons alone.

Stephanie329
by Platinum Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 4:20 PM
My cat is getting fixed so she doesn't have any more kitties. Pretty good reason. She goes in and out of the house.
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tambrathegreat
by on Dec. 11, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Cropping and docking is rarely done under general anesthesia.  I don't know where you got your info, but many breeders crop/dock ears at home.  Also, giving a tiny puppy anesthetic would be tricky at best and most veterinarian won't or don't.  Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.   My parents bred their corgis and suffered through the guilt they felt over the docking of the pups' tails.  They never bred again because of the cruelty they perceived in the process.  The idea that these pups experience no pain is ridiculous.  They do. 

Spaying and neutering are done for two reasons.  The first is to keep a seriously overpopulated pet population from sky-rocketing.  These procedures are done anywhere from two months old to adulthood, and also (point number two) keep adult dogs from suffering from common reproductive health problems.  Male dogs can and do get prostate cancer and female dogs can and do get several infections, suffer through false pregnancies, and also are prone to uterine/ovarian cancer. 

Some people advocate spaying and neutering to curb behavior problems related to gender, such as marking also. 

There is a huge difference, in my opinion, between doing something that is cosmetic to a puppy and doing something for the overall health of your animal and the pet population in general. 

bcuz2pplfelnlv
by New Member on Dec. 11, 2012 at 5:59 PM
don't like cropped ears. got my lil dog spayed so my doby won't rape her.also his ears are natural and his tail is docked. i didn't make that call, as he was 6 months when we got him...but i think he's cuter for it....:) also, doesn't removing the repro organs extend life by reducing risk for certain disease?
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AliKatCam
by on Dec. 11, 2012 at 10:52 PM

What good breeder you know of does that at home? Only a backyard breeder would do their own surgeries at home. Taking a knife, rubberband or some scissors to your pets is freaking barbaric. I am happy your parents no longer breed.

Quoting tambrathegreat:

Cropping and docking is rarely done under general anesthesia.  I don't know where you got your info, but many breeders crop/dock ears at home.  Also, giving a tiny puppy anesthetic would be tricky at best and most veterinarian won't or don't.  Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.   My parents bred their corgis and suffered through the guilt they felt over the docking of the pups' tails.  They never bred again because of the cruelty they perceived in the process.  The idea that these pups experience no pain is ridiculous.  They do. 

Spaying and neutering are done for two reasons.  The first is to keep a seriously overpopulated pet population from sky-rocketing.  These procedures are done anywhere from two months old to adulthood, and also (point number two) keep adult dogs from suffering from common reproductive health problems.  Male dogs can and do get prostate cancer and female dogs can and do get several infections, suffer through false pregnancies, and also are prone to uterine/ovarian cancer. 

Some people advocate spaying and neutering to curb behavior problems related to gender, such as marking also. 

There is a huge difference, in my opinion, between doing something that is cosmetic to a puppy and doing something for the overall health of your animal and the pet population in general. 


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