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Invincible Ignorance

Posted by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:13 AM
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Anti-gun zealots continue to deny the facts.

Must every tragic mass shooting bring out the shrill ignorance of “gun control” advocates?

The key fallacy of so-called gun control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available.

If gun control zealots had any respect for facts, they would have discovered this long ago, because there have been too many factual studies over the years to leave any serious doubt about gun control laws being not merely futile but counterproductive.

Places and times with the strongest gun control laws have often been places and times with high murder rates. Washington, D.C., is a classic example, but just one among many.

When it comes to the rate of gun ownership, that is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas.

The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than among blacks, but the murder rate is higher among blacks. For the country as a whole, handgun ownership doubled in the late 20th century, while the murder rate went down.

The few counterexamples offered by gun control zealots do not stand up under scrutiny. Perhaps their strongest talking point is that Britain has stronger gun control laws than the United States and lower murder rates.

But, if you look back through history, you will find that Britain has had a lower murder rate than the United States for more than two centuries— and, for most of that time, the British had no more stringent gun control laws than the United States. Indeed, neither country had stringent gun control for most of that time.

In the middle of the 20th century, you could buy a shotgun in London with no questions asked. New York, which at that time had had the stringent Sullivan Law restricting gun ownership since 1911, still had several times the gun murder rate of London, as well as several times the London murder rate with other weapons.

Neither guns nor gun control were the reason for the difference in murder rates. People were the difference.

Yet many of the most zealous advocates of gun control laws, on both sides of the Atlantic, have also been advocates of leniency toward criminals.

In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms.

In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s— after decades of ever-tightening gun ownership restrictions — there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies.

Gun control zealots’ choice of Britain for comparison with the United States has been wholly tendentious, not only because it ignored the history of the two countries, but also because it ignored other countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States, such as Russia, Brazil and Mexico. All of these countries have higher murder rates than the United States.

You could compare other sets of countries and get similar results. Gun ownership has been three times as high in Switzerland as in Germany, but the Swiss have had lower murder rates. Other countries with high rates of gun ownership and low murder rates include Israel, New Zealand, and Finland.

To continue

by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:13 AM
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Replies (1-10):
LuvmyAiden
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM
2 moms liked this

Thanks for posting. Most won't listen but if ignorance can be broken through for ONE person then there is hope.

pamelax3
by Gold Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM
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very interesting, it is not guns that kill people it is people who kill people

Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:19 AM
4 moms liked this

Everyone has a cause and for some people the cause is gun control.

Candle, are you worried that the people who lobby for and focus their energy on gun control and restrictions will cause you to lose your right to bear arms?

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:29 AM
8 moms liked this


Quote:

If gun control zealots had any respect for facts, they would have discovered this long ago, because there have been too many factual studies over the years to leave any serious doubt about gun control laws being not merely futile but counterproductive.

I think the problem is Facts do not suggest that. At least none that I have seen. Nearly every country that has a strong control of their guns has far fewer deaths.



And before you say, "But their crime rate is still went up!". No one has suggested that removing guns will solve crime. Just that it will make it harder to kill people. For example. The school in China that was just attacked and 22 kids were stabbed. None of them died. If the attacker did that with a gun it is likely a lot more would have died.

Now I am not saying we should ban guns. But if you want to counter the people who do you need a better argument than this.

Speficially one that disproves what they suggest.

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Debmomto2girls
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:30 AM
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 I wouldn't own a gun simply because I have no interest.

I believe in restrictions to owning guns.

However, I also believe there is no gun control law in the world that will stop someone from getting a gun to kill.

candlegal
by Judy on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:39 AM
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I don't own a gun or a rifle but I don't want people to be able to lose their right to bear arms.    The best way to take over a country is to take away the people's right to bear arms.   I live in Texas and I don't think we will have a problem here if that happens.  :)

Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:

Everyone has a cause and for some people the cause is gun control.

Candle, are you worried that the people who lobby for and focus their energy on gun control and restrictions will cause you to lose your right to bear arms?


canadianmom1974
by Platinum Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:48 AM
7 moms liked this
If nothing changes, nothing will change.

Can anyone actually say that the status quo is working? SOMETHING needs to change, whether that's gun control, better mental health care, a combination of the two, or something else entirely, I can't say. But something needs to change.

My reaction to hearing of this tragedy on Friday was horror, dismay, sadness and tears, but not shock or surprise. And when I hear of the next one, because unless something does change, there will be a next one, I won't be shocked or surprised.

If nothing changes, nothing will change.
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Stephanie329
by Ruby Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM
I'm in the middle about this. We own guns. My husband inherited a very special gun from my step-father, and he has his conceal and carry license. I don't mind the restrictions.

No one is going to "come take our guns away".
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candlegal
by Judy on Dec. 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM
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It is hard to take away guns when so many people have them.  They know they won't give them up.

Quoting Stephanie329:

I'm in the middle about this. We own guns. My husband inherited a very special gun from my step-father, and he has his conceal and carry license. I don't mind the restrictions.

No one is going to "come take our guns away".


olivejuice2
by Bronze Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 12:15 PM
3 moms liked this
Quoting candlegal:




The right to bear arms is not going to be taken away. The people calling for the repeal of the second ammendment are a small minority. If you want to talk about willful ignorance, people who believe the second ammendment is about to be repealed fit the bill. Do you know very hard it is to repeal an ammendment? The potus has no power to do so, and if the country decides (because that's what it would take) the potus has no veto power. No ones guns are going anywhere.

Most people just want to see more restrictions on gun buying. I don't think just anyone should be able to waltz into wal mart or a gun show and leave with guns. No civilian needs to own an assault weapon, and high capacity magazines and quick fire weapons (like the ones used at sandy hook) are also not required for self defense. The above make the quick deaths of many much more possible.

This won't go over well, I'm sure, but personally i'd like to see a requirement for classes on gun gun use and safety, as well as required shooting practice for people wanting to own a gun and perhaps new gun owners. People who will shout about this infringing on your rights; does drivers ed or the road test you surely took infringe on your rights? Does the requirement for a passport when leaving the country infringe on your rights? Regulations are put in place for good reason

The "logic" behind making guns easier to get/having more people carry weapons seems like the logic of watering a garden in a rainstorm. Maybe I'm willfully ignorant but I don't get it.
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