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What Would Jesus Say to the NRA? by Shane Claiborne

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I personally am not a religious person. I believe in the life force that is this universe, not a human personified deity residing in the sky. I was raised Catholic but I have rejected a good deal of the churches teachings. 

However, Shane Claiborne is one of the few Christians I truly admire. I also believe he's one of the few who is actually living and breathing Christs teachings. So much so that he hangs out with the prostitutes and drug addicts, and convicts of Philadelphia and is the leader of The Simple Way. His is a message of unconditional love. Especially for those who hurt us the most. I read his book Jesus For President and it was a very good book. This is an article he wrote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-claiborne/what-would-jesus-say-to-the-nra_b_2360543.html


What does the birth of the baby Jesus 2,000 years ago have to offer the violent, troubled world we live in? Or what would Jesus say to the NRA?

I want to suggest: a lot. A whole lot.

Jesus entered the world from a posture of absolute vulnerability -- as an unarmed, innocent child during a time of tremendous violence. The Bible speaks of a terrible massacre as Jesus was born, an unspeakable act of violence as King Herod slaughters children throughout the land hoping to kill Jesus (which the church remembers annually as the massacre of the Holy Innocents).

Perhaps the original Christmas was marked more with agony and grief like that in Connecticut than with the glitz and glamour of the shopping malls and Christmas parades. For just as Mary and Joseph celebrated their newborn baby, there were plenty of other moms and dads in utter agony because their kids had just been killed.

From his birth in the manger as a homeless refugee until his brutal execution on the Roman cross, Jesus was very familiar with violence. Emmanuel means "God with us." Jesus' coming to earth is all about a God who leaves the comfort of heaven to join the suffering on earth. The fact that Christians throughout the world regularly identify with a victim of violence -- and a nonviolent, grace-filled, forgiving victim -- is perhaps one of the most fundamentally life-altering and world-changing assumptions of the Christian faith. Or it should be.

So what does that have to do with the NRA? Underneath the rhetoric of the gun-control debate this Christmas is a nagging question: Are more guns the solution to our gun problem?

Everything in Jesus' world, just as in ours, contends that we must use violence to protect the innocent from violence, which is the very thing Jesus came to help us un-learn through his nonviolent life and death on the cross. Surely, we think, if God were to come to earth, he should at least come with a bodyguard -- if not an entire entourage of armed soldiers and secret service folk. But Jesus comes unarmed. Surely, we think, if God were about to be killed he would bust out a can of butt-kicking wrath; but Jesus looks into the eyes of those about to kill him and says, "Father forgive them." The Bible goes so far to say that the wisdom of God makes no sense to the logic of this world, in fact it may even seem like "foolishness" (or at least utopian idealism).

When soldiers come to arrest and execute Jesus, one of his closest friends defensively picks up a sword to protect him. Jesus' response is stunning: He scolds his own disciple and heals the wounded persecutor. It was a tough and very counter-intuitive lesson: "The one who picks up the sword dies by the sword ... there is another way."

That lesson that Jesus taught his disciple is as relevant to us, and the NRA, as it was the early movement of Christians in the first century. Violence will not rid the world of violence. You do not use swords to get rid of swords or guns to get rid of guns. There is another way.

Many Christians have begun to speak of Jesus as an interruption to the "myth of redemptive violence," the assumption that we can use violence to get rid of violence or that we can destroy a life to save a life. The myth of redemptive violence has many ugly faces. It teaches us that we can kill those who kill to show that killing is wrong. It teaches us to live by the law of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" a law that Jesus firmly spun on its head, saying, "You've heard it said 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth ... but I tell you..." There is another way. Killing to show that killing is wrong is like trying to teach holiness by fornication. The cure is as bad as the disease.

At one point Jesus even weeps over the violent world he lived in, lamenting that "they did not know the things that would lead to peace." The fact that Jesus carried a cross rather than a sword has something relevant and redemptive to offer our violent-possessed world. After all, the Bible has a lot to say about loving enemies, and "Thou shalt not kill," but doesn't even mention the right to bear arms.

So let's imagine. What would Jesus say to our nation, where these are things are true:

  • 10,000 people die from gun-related homicides each year, that's one Sandy Hook massacre a day, every day
  • There are nearly 90 guns for every 100 people
  • There are more than 51,000 licensed gunshops (and 30,000 supermarkets)
  • Guns that can shoot 100 rounds a minute, and are only designed to kill, are still legal
  • Other than auto accidents, gun violence is the leading cause of death of young people (under 20)
  • $20,000 a second is spent on war

There is a reason we talk about "Peace on Earth" so much around Christmas. There is a reason why we talk about Jesus as the "Prince of Peace." He consistently taught that we can disarm violence without mirroring it, and that we can rid the world of evil without becoming the evil we abhor. So let us recommit ourselves to Peace this Christmas season and new year -- in honor of Jesus, and in honor of the holy innocents.

by on Dec. 28, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Replies (31-40):
Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:06 PM

 

That's actually a good line.  Where'd you get it?

Quoting Bookwormy:

But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 


Quoting Bookwormy:


 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.


Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence.


 


Quoting yourspecialkid:


 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few.


 


 


 


 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.


I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence.


 



 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:07 PM
1 mom liked this

I understand what you are saying.

This is mainly in response to those who cling so tightly to their guns while also calling themselves Christians when their so called savior was an extreme pacifist. To the point where he allowed himself to be killed rather than fight back (and he could have fought back or got away). 

Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:

The only conclusion I can come to is that the constitution needs a major overhaul. Many people in the country cling to it as if it has its very own life source and is, in itself an American Deity.

IMO some people don't want to discuss what's reasonable or what, as citizens, they are willing to accept. These people only want what's coming to them as provided 'to them' within the constitution.

More guns and bigger guns do not deter people with guns. That's true enough. Eradicating guns will only be possible if gun manufacturers come under scrutiny by our own gov't and/or the gov't makes owning guns completely illegal.

Why does my neighbor or fellow citizen care if I own guns legally? Are those people frightened I will go bat shit insane and kill a bunch of people? Really? Or, is it about control and fear? I cannot control who acquires a weapon legally or illegally. I can be proactive and diligent in teaching my children how to react in a violent scenario involving guns as well as teach them that guns can kill people and that guns are not toys.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around a viable solution that would make all sides happy.

I cannot begin to even give consideration to the NRA or to JC regarding guns.

BaronSamedi
by Bronze Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:07 PM

  "render unto caesar"

   Guns are the protection millions depend on.   Yes people die.  Guns are much the reason we have Democracies and Republics.  Without them we would be still ruled by a aristocracy.

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Out of her glowingly brilliant brain. 

Quoting Billiejeens:

That's actually a good line.  Where'd you get it?

Quoting Bookwormy:

But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.
Quoting yourspecialkid:
Quoting Bookwormy:

 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.

Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few

 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.

I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Democracy was invented thousands of years before guns were invented. The two do not really go hand in hand. 

Quoting BaronSamedi:

  "render unto caesar"

   Guns are the protection millions depend on.   Yes people die.  Guns are much the reason we have Democracies and Republics.  Without them we would be still ruled by a aristocracy. 

Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:12 PM

 

No chance

Quoting mehamil1:

Out of her glowingly brilliant brain. 

Quoting Billiejeens:

That's actually a good line.  Where'd you get it?

Quoting Bookwormy:

But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.
Quoting yourspecialkid:
Quoting Bookwormy:

 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.

Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few

 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.

I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence


 

Mommy2_two
by Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:16 PM
1 mom liked this

 That is true. PEOPLE WITH GUNS PROTECT PEOPLE FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE GUNS!


Quoting Bookwormy:

But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 


Quoting Bookwormy:


 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.


Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence.


 


Quoting yourspecialkid:


 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few.


 


 


 


 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.


I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence.


 



 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Or end up accidentally shooting the people they are trying to protect. Happens to police officers all the time. They shoot at a suspect shooting at them, and they end up shooting innocent by standers while firing back. 

Quoting Mommy2_two:

 That is true. PEOPLE WITH GUNS PROTECT PEOPLE FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE GUNS!

Quoting Bookwormy:
But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.
Quoting yourspecialkid:
Quoting Bookwormy:

 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.

Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few

 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.

I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence.

Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM

 

I have got to check my hearing.

I thought it was "the meek" shall inherit the earth - not "the freak".

Quoting mehamil1:

Adorable.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

It really is.

For what ever reason, that I can't really explain, this article really hit me.  Not necessarily from the 'gun' angle.............the overall, more important, message.  The message Jesus laid out for all to see and learn from.  I don't know, it's a little strange.....but the words written here truly impacted me tonight.

Silly........perhaps.  But true.


 

pansyprincess
by Silver Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM

Is this what Jesus taught?

What I think are lot of people call themselves Christians, and say they believe and have faith, but at the end of the day, they wouldn't die for that faith.  They wouldn't act as Jesus would, and let that person barge into their home and kill them.  They wouldn't turn the other cheek.  They wouldn't show love in the face in the violence.   So it makes you wonder how much they really believe in their god. 


Quoting Mommy2_two:

 That is true. PEOPLE WITH GUNS PROTECT PEOPLE FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE GUNS!

 

Quoting Bookwormy:

But everyone knows guns don't protect people, people protect people.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 


Quoting Bookwormy:


 I'm not Christian so I don't really care what Jesus would tell anyone, but I think that if I am wrong, & Jesus really was/is the son of G-d, you are likely off base.  If I am wrong I'm guessing Shane Claiborne is on the money & you don't like that, do you?  Bummer for you I guess.


Do you believe is Jesus?  If not, don't let Mr. Claiborne get under your skin.  If you do, you might consider the hypocricy of Christianity & fighting violence with violence.


 


Quoting yourspecialkid:


 Jesus would tell Shane not to judge others.  Especially based on the actions of a few.


 


 


 


 You don't know what the NRA is really about do you?  It isn't about war.  It is about protecting what the Constitution promises.  It is about allowing people to protect themselves, their family and their property and choosing to use a firearm to do so.  The NRA is about insuring hunters and the tables they put meat on.  It is about hobbyists, collectors and historians.


I can't help but wonder what you would do if your family was threatened....would you just have everyone line up to be killed or would you fight back?  Protection of self and family may be violent, but it is necessary violence.


 


 

 


 

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