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Why Atheism will replace Religion.

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Atheists are heavily concentrated in economically developed countries, particularly the social democracies of Europe (Barber, 2012). In underdeveloped countries, there are virtually no atheists

Atheism is thus a peculiarly modern phenomenon. Why do modern conditions produce atheism?

First, as to the distribution of atheism in the world, a clear pattern can be discerned. In sub-Saharan Africa there is almost no atheism (Zuckerman, 2007). Belief in God declines in more developed countries and is concentrated in Europe in countries such as Sweden (64% nonbelievers), Denmark (48%), France (44%) and Germany (42%). In contrast, the incidence of atheism in most sub-Saharan countries is below 1%.

The question of why economically developed countries turn to atheism has been batted around by anthropologists for about eighty years. Anthropologist James Fraser proposed that scientific prediction and control of nature supplants religion as a means of controlling uncertainty in our lives. This hunch is supported by data showing that the more educated countries have higher levels of non belief and there are strong correlations between atheism and intelligence (see my earlier post on this).

Atheists are more likely to be college-educated people who live in citiesand they are highly concentrated in the social democracies of Europe. Atheism thus blossoms amid affluence where most people feel economically secure. But why?

It seems that people turn to religion as a salve for the difficulties and uncertainties of their lives. In social democracies, there is less fear and uncertainty about the future because social welfare programs provide a safety net and better health care means that fewer people can expect to die young. People who are less vulnerable to the hostile forces of nature feel more in control of their lives and less in need of religion.



In addition to being the opium of the people (as Karl Marx contemptuously phrased it), religion may also promote fertility, particularly by promoting marriage, according to copious data reviewed by Sanderson (2008). Large families are preferred in agricultural countries as a source of free labor. In developed "atheist" countries, women have exceptionally small families and do not need religion helping them to raise large families.

Even the psychological functions of religion face stiff competition today. In modern societies, when people experience psychological difficulties they turn to their doctor, psychologist, or psychiatrist. They want a scientific fix and prefer the real psychotropic medicines dished out by physicians to the metaphorical opiates offered by religion.



Moreover, sport psychologists find that sports spectatorship provides much the same kind of social, and spiritual, benefits as people obtain from church membership. In a previous post, I made the case that sports is replacing religion. Precisely the same argument can be made for other forms of entertainment with which spectators become deeply involved.


Indeed, religion is striking back by trying to compete in popular media, such as televangelism and Christian rock and by hosting live secular entertainment in church.

The reasons that churches lose ground in developed countries can be summarized in market terms. First, with better science, and with government safety nets, and smaller families, there is less fear and uncertainty in people's daily lives and hence less of a market for religion. At the same time many alternative products are being offered, such as psychotropic medicines and electronic entertainment that have fewer strings attached and that do not require slavish conformity to unscientific beliefs.

References

Barber, N. (2012). Why atheism will replace religion: The triumph of earthly pleasures over pie in the sky. E-book, available at: http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Will-Replace-Religion-ebook/dp/B00886ZSJ6/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201005/why-atheism-will-replace-religion
by on Jan. 3, 2013 at 5:00 PM
Replies (171-180):
12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 1:49 PM


Quoting glitterteaz:

Interesting comment, especially when one considers a great deal of history, science, and education have been funded by the Catholic Church...

glitterteaz
by Ruby Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 1:55 PM

and yet many of their followers despise science and even try to control and re-write the facts. One such example would be the geocentric model which was clearly wrong and they had a ginormous tantrum when the truth was introduced that the heliocentric model was in fact the correct model.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting glitterteaz:

Interesting comment, especially when one considers a great deal of history, science, and education have been funded by the Catholic Church...


12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 1:57 PM


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting DropZoneMom:

I DISAGREE.    Christianity has been around for 2000 years; Judaism for longer than that (not sure about Islam, etc., but know it's been a LONG time, too).

SOME people might be moving away from religion (but most of them aren't becoming atheists; they're moving toward trendy "religions" like scientology & kabbalah -- at least until they become educated about what those cults actually mean).   But if you visit any college campus, there is a huge surge TOWARDS religion, even among kids who weren't brought up in a church.

And, when it comes right down to it, this article talks about 'SCIENTIFIC' reasons religion won't continue -- and that's it's downfall.   Religion isn't about science -- it's about FAITH.    Something the poor writer obviously doesn't have!!!

 


Yes, I know religion is old.

I like how you put quotes around that word, does it make it less of a religion?

I don't know ad out colleges everywhere, but most around where I'm at have adults as the majority.

The writer doesn't need faith to study numbers. She isn't quantifying the faith it self, that would be on par with trying to graph out how many americans are in love. What she mapping is people who label themselves. So that leaves out the church goer that is like "meh" on polls. But it includes non church going Christians.

But it is simply statistics.


So where are her statistics on people who were raised Atheist, or without belief and if they remain Atheist?  I have seen statistics that show Atheists have the lowest retention rate.  In other words less people raised as Atheist remain Atheist compared to the other marjory religions. 

12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

 

Are you referring to the heliocentric model first formulated by Catholic cleric Nicolaus Copernicus?

Quoting glitterteaz:

and yet many of their followers despise science and even try to control and re-write the facts. One such example would be the geocentric model which was clearly wrong and they had a ginormous tantrum when the truth was introduced that the heliocentric model was in fact the correct model.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting glitterteaz:

Interesting comment, especially when one considers a great deal of history, science, and education have been funded by the Catholic Church...



romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:16 PM


Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting DropZoneMom:

I DISAGREE.    Christianity has been around for 2000 years; Judaism for longer than that (not sure about Islam, etc., but know it's been a LONG time, too).

SOME people might be moving away from religion (but most of them aren't becoming atheists; they're moving toward trendy "religions" like scientology & kabbalah -- at least until they become educated about what those cults actually mean).   But if you visit any college campus, there is a huge surge TOWARDS religion, even among kids who weren't brought up in a church.

And, when it comes right down to it, this article talks about 'SCIENTIFIC' reasons religion won't continue -- and that's it's downfall.   Religion isn't about science -- it's about FAITH.    Something the poor writer obviously doesn't have!!!



Yes, I know religion is old.

I like how you put quotes around that word, does it make it less of a religion?

I don't know ad out colleges everywhere, but most around where I'm at have adults as the majority.

The writer doesn't need faith to study numbers. She isn't quantifying the faith it self, that would be on par with trying to graph out how many americans are in love. What she mapping is people who label themselves. So that leaves out the church goer that is like "meh" on polls. But it includes non church going Christians.

But it is simply statistics.


So where are her statistics on people who were raised Atheist, or without belief and if they remain Atheist?  I have seen statistics that show Atheists have the lowest retention rate.  In other words less people raised as Atheist remain Atheist compared to the other marjory religions. 

So I researched this.

I saw one (1) study by CARA which was on many different Christian websites and blogs.  I saw one on an atheist's blog where he discusses this as well.

One thing the atheist guy said was it's very irrelevant.  It has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of God.  Either God exists or doesn't, and your belief or my non-belief doesn't change that.

There are flaws with the study, but in a way that's irrelevant too.  Atheists, meaning people who identify as not believing in God, are growing in numbers, not losing them, which means that there are more people in religions changing their minds about the truth of God.

There can be many reasons that people who identified as being raised atheist no longer do so.  First, if you marry someone and they are in a religion, it is not uncommon for someone, especially someone who is without religion, to convert to please their spouse.  That they now have a religion doesn't mean they are religious, or actually believe.  I wish I had a dollar for every person who self-identifies as Christian who, when you talk to them, have doubts about some or all of their religious instruction.  Second, it isn't unusual for people to search, and someone raised without religion would not be any different than someone raised with religion.

I also think someone raised without religion isn't disappointing their parents if they go to a religion, as a general rule.  It's not like turning your back on your church or temple or tradition or facing God's wrath.

At any rate, this issue "is what it is".  As we move forward, there are more people moving forward without faith.

glitterteaz
by Ruby Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:25 PM

no I was refering to the earliest heliocentric model. Aristarch of Samos and then you have Galileo who was placed under house arrest for promoting the heliocentric model. Here is a excerp from wiki 

Publication of Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems

Pope Urban VIII encouraged Galileo to publish the pros and cons of Heliocentrism. In the event, Galileo's Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems clearly advocated heliocentrism and appeared to make fun of the Pope. Urban VIII became hostile to Galileo and he was again summoned to Rome.[69] Galileo's trial in 1633 involved making fine distinctions between "teaching" and "holding and defending as true". For advancing heliocentric theory Galileo was forced to recant Copernicanism and was put under house arrest for the last few years of his life.

According to J. L. Heilbron,[70] informed contemporaries of Galileo's:

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Are you referring to the heliocentric model first formulated by Catholic cleric Nicolaus Copernicus?

Quoting glitterteaz:

and yet many of their followers despise science and even try to control and re-write the facts. One such example would be the geocentric model which was clearly wrong and they had a ginormous tantrum when the truth was introduced that the heliocentric model was in fact the correct model.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting glitterteaz:

Interesting comment, especially when one considers a great deal of history, science, and education have been funded by the Catholic Church...




12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM


Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting DropZoneMom:

I DISAGREE.    Christianity has been around for 2000 years; Judaism for longer than that (not sure about Islam, etc., but know it's been a LONG time, too).

SOME people might be moving away from religion (but most of them aren't becoming atheists; they're moving toward trendy "religions" like scientology & kabbalah -- at least until they become educated about what those cults actually mean).   But if you visit any college campus, there is a huge surge TOWARDS religion, even among kids who weren't brought up in a church.

And, when it comes right down to it, this article talks about 'SCIENTIFIC' reasons religion won't continue -- and that's it's downfall.   Religion isn't about science -- it's about FAITH.    Something the poor writer obviously doesn't have!!!

 


Yes, I know religion is old.

I like how you put quotes around that word, does it make it less of a religion?

I don't know ad out colleges everywhere, but most around where I'm at have adults as the majority.

The writer doesn't need faith to study numbers. She isn't quantifying the faith it self, that would be on par with trying to graph out how many americans are in love. What she mapping is people who label themselves. So that leaves out the church goer that is like "meh" on polls. But it includes non church going Christians.

But it is simply statistics.


So where are her statistics on people who were raised Atheist, or without belief and if they remain Atheist?  I have seen statistics that show Atheists have the lowest retention rate.  In other words less people raised as Atheist remain Atheist compared to the other marjory religions. 

So I researched this.

I saw one (1) study by CARA which was on many different Christian websites and blogs.  I saw one on an atheist's blog where he discusses this as well.

One thing the atheist guy said was it's very irrelevant.  It has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of God.  Either God exists or doesn't, and your belief or my non-belief doesn't change that.

There are flaws with the study, but in a way that's irrelevant too.  Atheists, meaning people who identify as not believing in God, are growing in numbers, not losing them, which means that there are more people in religions changing their minds about the truth of God.

There can be many reasons that people who identified as being raised atheist no longer do so.  First, if you marry someone and they are in a religion, it is not uncommon for someone, especially someone who is without religion, to convert to please their spouse.  That they now have a religion doesn't mean they are religious, or actually believe.  I wish I had a dollar for every person who self-identifies as Christian who, when you talk to them, have doubts about some or all of their religious instruction.  Second, it isn't unusual for people to search, and someone raised without religion would not be any different than someone raised with religion.

I also think someone raised without religion isn't disappointing their parents if they go to a religion, as a general rule.  It's not like turning your back on your church or temple or tradition or facing God's wrath.

At any rate, this issue "is what it is".  As we move forward, there are more people moving forward without faith.


 

 

What do you base this on? 

romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:28 PM


Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting DropZoneMom:

I DISAGREE.    Christianity has been around for 2000 years; Judaism for longer than that (not sure about Islam, etc., but know it's been a LONG time, too).

SOME people might be moving away from religion (but most of them aren't becoming atheists; they're moving toward trendy "religions" like scientology & kabbalah -- at least until they become educated about what those cults actually mean).   But if you visit any college campus, there is a huge surge TOWARDS religion, even among kids who weren't brought up in a church.

And, when it comes right down to it, this article talks about 'SCIENTIFIC' reasons religion won't continue -- and that's it's downfall.   Religion isn't about science -- it's about FAITH.    Something the poor writer obviously doesn't have!!!



Yes, I know religion is old.

I like how you put quotes around that word, does it make it less of a religion?

I don't know ad out colleges everywhere, but most around where I'm at have adults as the majority.

The writer doesn't need faith to study numbers. She isn't quantifying the faith it self, that would be on par with trying to graph out how many americans are in love. What she mapping is people who label themselves. So that leaves out the church goer that is like "meh" on polls. But it includes non church going Christians.

But it is simply statistics.


So where are her statistics on people who were raised Atheist, or without belief and if they remain Atheist?  I have seen statistics that show Atheists have the lowest retention rate.  In other words less people raised as Atheist remain Atheist compared to the other marjory religions. 

So I researched this.

I saw one (1) study by CARA which was on many different Christian websites and blogs.  I saw one on an atheist's blog where he discusses this as well.

One thing the atheist guy said was it's very irrelevant.  It has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of God.  Either God exists or doesn't, and your belief or my non-belief doesn't change that.

There are flaws with the study, but in a way that's irrelevant too.  Atheists, meaning people who identify as not believing in God, are growing in numbers, not losing them, which means that there are more people in religions changing their minds about the truth of God.

There can be many reasons that people who identified as being raised atheist no longer do so.  First, if you marry someone and they are in a religion, it is not uncommon for someone, especially someone who is without religion, to convert to please their spouse.  That they now have a religion doesn't mean they are religious, or actually believe.  I wish I had a dollar for every person who self-identifies as Christian who, when you talk to them, have doubts about some or all of their religious instruction.  Second, it isn't unusual for people to search, and someone raised without religion would not be any different than someone raised with religion.

I also think someone raised without religion isn't disappointing their parents if they go to a religion, as a general rule.  It's not like turning your back on your church or temple or tradition or facing God's wrath.

At any rate, this issue "is what it is".  As we move forward, there are more people moving forward without faith.




What do you base this on? 

I base it on the studies that show an increase in those, when polled, stating they are either atheist or agnostic and not belonging to a religion.  

12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:34 PM

 

And you can thank the Catholic Church for preserving the writings of Aristarchus of Samos...

Quoting glitterteaz:

no I was refering to the earliest heliocentric model. Aristarch of Samos and then you have Galileo who was placed under house arrest for promoting the heliocentric model. Here is a excerp from wiki 

Publication of Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems

Pope Urban VIII encouraged Galileo to publish the pros and cons of Heliocentrism. In the event, Galileo's Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems clearly advocated heliocentrism and appeared to make fun of the Pope. Urban VIII became hostile to Galileo and he was again summoned to Rome.[69] Galileo's trial in 1633 involved making fine distinctions between "teaching" and "holding and defending as true". For advancing heliocentric theory Galileo was forced to recant Copernicanism and was put under house arrest for the last few years of his life.

According to J. L. Heilbron,[70] informed contemporaries of Galileo's:

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Are you referring to the heliocentric model first formulated by Catholic cleric Nicolaus Copernicus?

Quoting glitterteaz:

and yet many of their followers despise science and even try to control and re-write the facts. One such example would be the geocentric model which was clearly wrong and they had a ginormous tantrum when the truth was introduced that the heliocentric model was in fact the correct model.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting glitterteaz:

Interesting comment, especially when one considers a great deal of history, science, and education have been funded by the Catholic Church...


 



12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 2:35 PM


Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting DropZoneMom:

I DISAGREE.    Christianity has been around for 2000 years; Judaism for longer than that (not sure about Islam, etc., but know it's been a LONG time, too).

SOME people might be moving away from religion (but most of them aren't becoming atheists; they're moving toward trendy "religions" like scientology & kabbalah -- at least until they become educated about what those cults actually mean).   But if you visit any college campus, there is a huge surge TOWARDS religion, even among kids who weren't brought up in a church.

And, when it comes right down to it, this article talks about 'SCIENTIFIC' reasons religion won't continue -- and that's it's downfall.   Religion isn't about science -- it's about FAITH.    Something the poor writer obviously doesn't have!!!

 


Yes, I know religion is old.

I like how you put quotes around that word, does it make it less of a religion?

I don't know ad out colleges everywhere, but most around where I'm at have adults as the majority.

The writer doesn't need faith to study numbers. She isn't quantifying the faith it self, that would be on par with trying to graph out how many americans are in love. What she mapping is people who label themselves. So that leaves out the church goer that is like "meh" on polls. But it includes non church going Christians.

But it is simply statistics.


So where are her statistics on people who were raised Atheist, or without belief and if they remain Atheist?  I have seen statistics that show Atheists have the lowest retention rate.  In other words less people raised as Atheist remain Atheist compared to the other marjory religions. 

So I researched this.

I saw one (1) study by CARA which was on many different Christian websites and blogs.  I saw one on an atheist's blog where he discusses this as well.

One thing the atheist guy said was it's very irrelevant.  It has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of God.  Either God exists or doesn't, and your belief or my non-belief doesn't change that.

There are flaws with the study, but in a way that's irrelevant too.  Atheists, meaning people who identify as not believing in God, are growing in numbers, not losing them, which means that there are more people in religions changing their minds about the truth of God.

There can be many reasons that people who identified as being raised atheist no longer do so.  First, if you marry someone and they are in a religion, it is not uncommon for someone, especially someone who is without religion, to convert to please their spouse.  That they now have a religion doesn't mean they are religious, or actually believe.  I wish I had a dollar for every person who self-identifies as Christian who, when you talk to them, have doubts about some or all of their religious instruction.  Second, it isn't unusual for people to search, and someone raised without religion would not be any different than someone raised with religion.

I also think someone raised without religion isn't disappointing their parents if they go to a religion, as a general rule.  It's not like turning your back on your church or temple or tradition or facing God's wrath.

At any rate, this issue "is what it is".  As we move forward, there are more people moving forward without faith.


 

 

What do you base this on? 

I base it on the studies that show an increase in those, when polled, stating they are either atheist or agnostic and not belonging to a religion.  

LOL of course those studies are not flawed....

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