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Atheist faith

Posted by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM
  • 69 Replies
Atheist Faith – Faith is Common in the Human Experience But here's the rub on Atheist Faith and Religious Faith. It wasn't the fact that faith exists within all of us that beguiled Dr. Keller; it was how each of us expresses our faith that captured his imagination. Think about it. By virtue of our various worldviews, each of us discovers a sense of belonging. Whether you are a Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, or a Freethinker, you will find other people who share your belief system. You will also soon appreciate that there are many more people who disagree with your beliefs and consider them simply wrong. What is common to all of us is the tendency to marginalize those who don't believe as we do; to consider ourselves better than those who haven't been similarly enlightened.

In this sense, we can't help but agree with Christopher Hitchens. Religion does poison everything. And he certainly made that point clearly in his debate with Frank Turek. Christopher emoted, "Isn't it as plain as could be that those who commit the most callous, the most cruel, the most brutal, the most indiscriminate atrocities of all, do so precisely because they believe they have divine permission?" In many cases, we must humbly admit, he is correct. However, wasn't Pol Pot cruel and indiscriminate? Wasn't Joseph Stalin callous and brutal? Stalin was also indiscriminate. He copiously murdered people of all religions.

Richard Dawkins, in The God Delusion, suggests that while these men were indeed atheists, it wasn't their atheism that drove them to commit such atrocities. Stalin's atheism may not have led him to murder had it not been that his atheism first led him to marginalize the masses. His atheism led to self-supremacy and the marginalization of others, which in turn led to his genocidal acts. In his Contribution to Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, Karl Marx described religion as the "opiate of the masses." Supremacist thoughts would come easily to someone convinced that everyone else is walking around in a metaphorical drug-induced stupor. When it comes to atrocities, all religions, and even atheism, are in a dead heat.

But why is this so?

Atheist Faith – The Bottom Line The bottom line is that people are not led to commit atrocities by either Atheist Faith or Religious Faith, but rather by the insidious seduction of power and the serpentine invasiveness of pride. These lead to a misguided sense of moral superiority. When an individual of one group sees himself as superior to those of another group — as more deserving, more enlightened, more noble — he is bound to subjugate outsiders mentally, verbally, and eventually physically. When religion leads people to view others as lower than themselves, then it does spoil everything.

Full article here: http://www.allaboutworldview.org/atheist-faith.htm

by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM
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Replies (1-10):
romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:12 PM
3 moms liked this

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.

cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:16 PM
Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.


I don't think he thought that one out!
Good looking out Roma!

I'm on a search, and came across this, and thought it sounded interesting. He uses faith in it's basic definition, which is to believe something without knowing for sure. Like he said, you have faith that a red light will make the crossing lane stop. I'm not sure I fully buy that, though.
romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:20 PM
6 moms liked this


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.


I don't think he thought that one out!
Good looking out Roma!

I'm on a search, and came across this, and thought it sounded interesting. He uses faith in it's basic definition, which is to believe something without knowing for sure. Like he said, you have faith that a red light will make the crossing lane stop. I'm not sure I fully buy that, though.

I'll be honest.

This reads to me like someone trying to seem like they are even handed about religion, but in fact are not.

Calling atheism "atheist faith" is a big red flag for me.  His use of Hitchens draws you in to the idea that he's up on atheist writings.  But he describes "freethinkers" as having a "belief system".  I reject the idea of atheism as a belief system because it simply is not.  It is just the non-belief in a supernatural higher power.  Period, end of sentence.  That's not a belief system.

And I think religious people want to put atheism on par with religion as just another religion choice to muddy the waters.  Everyone picks a religion, everyone has faith in something even if it's in "Atheism".  

This is all nonsense.

I don't think atheists in general are "marginalizing" people who don't believe as they do.  I think most atheists don't care about what others believe.  It is a personal decision some people come to, and live without the trappings of religion and/or belief.  

There "are" a few people who have come together and meet or make organizations, but they speak only for themselves and not for the majority.

It is frustrating because people can't see that.  

cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Quoting romalove:


I can see that. I thought he sounded very pastorish to me, but he didn't state it.

My search continues!
I'm honestly trying to figure out what holds people to their religion. I keep getting faith and belief as answers. But when I read a supposed explanation of Christian faith, it honestly left way more confusion than it it cleared up anything.

The world may never know! Lol!
romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:


I can see that. I thought he sounded very pastorish to me, but he didn't state it.

My search continues!
I'm honestly trying to figure out what holds people to their religion. I keep getting faith and belief as answers. But when I read a supposed explanation of Christian faith, it honestly left way more confusion than it it cleared up anything.

The world may never know! Lol!

I'm sorry!  I didn't mean to mess up your search lol.

I'm curious.  Why are you on this particular topic, figuring out what holds people to their religion?  Are you really wanting to know about them keeping religion or belief in God?

I see a difference.

AMBG825
by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Obviously you have this need to push your "faith" on to everyone that doesn't believe the same as you. People shouldn't waste any more time on your trash because all you're going to do is delete it when more than 2 people tell you that you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 6:32 PM
Quoting AMBG825:

Obviously you have this need to push your "faith" on to everyone that doesn't believe the same as you. People shouldn't waste any more time on your trash because all you're going to do is delete it when more than 2 people tell you that you don't seem to know what you're talking about.


Actually, I had a question. While searching for the answer I found this and thought others might like to read it. I really don't care what you believe, don't believe.

If I wanted to push my faith on someone, I'd be posting Buddhist articles about how many more rainbows and gumdrops you get if you convert. (Sarcasm, btw)

I made an asinine association at 2 am and made a post because it seemed awesome with that little sleep. Apon waking this morning, I reread my post and the comments, and quickly realized how very stupid it was, and how wrong the post was altogether.

I did not erase it because I was disagreed with, I deleted it because it was simply wrong. Which Linda was so very patiently and kindly was trying to show me last night. The fact that two posters who I hold in high regard because of how they have acted in the past were both telling me I was wrong, got me to relook at what I said.

Besides, I deploy soon, so you won't see me around to interrupt your perfect world.
cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 6:38 PM
Quoting romalove:


I'm having a mental breakdown of tiny proportions, lol!

The group that introduced me to Buddhism is more or less a cult. A fact I was blind to for a while. I know how I feel when I pray, but I also know the intellectual feeling of utter disgust when I came across a story of Buddhist killing Muslims in refugee camps. I can't just say, well they aren't following the same thing I am.

I don't know, I'm conflicted and very confused at the moment.
babie113
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 6:41 PM
1 mom liked this
I agree with you Roma. I can't tell you how many times a believer has told me atheism is a religion and that everyone is a believer in something. What a load of Tosh.
Quoting romalove:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.


I don't think he thought that one out!

Good looking out Roma!



I'm on a search, and came across this, and thought it sounded interesting. He uses faith in it's basic definition, which is to believe something without knowing for sure. Like he said, you have faith that a red light will make the crossing lane stop. I'm not sure I fully buy that, though.

I'll be honest.

This reads to me like someone trying to seem like they are even handed about religion, but in fact are not.

Calling atheism "atheist faith" is a big red flag for me.  His use of Hitchens draws you in to the idea that he's up on atheist writings.  But he describes "freethinkers" as having a "belief system".  I reject the idea of atheism as a belief system because it simply is not.  It is just the non-belief in a supernatural higher power.  Period, end of sentence.  That's not a belief system.

And I think religious people want to put atheism on par with religion as just another religion choice to muddy the waters.  Everyone picks a religion, everyone has faith in something even if it's in "Atheism".  

This is all nonsense.

I don't think atheists in general are "marginalizing" people who don't believe as they do.  I think most atheists don't care about what others believe.  It is a personal decision some people come to, and live without the trappings of religion and/or belief.  

There "are" a few people who have come together and meet or make organizations, but they speak only for themselves and not for the majority.

It is frustrating because people can't see that.  

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canadianmom1974
by Gold Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 7:29 PM
I don't think you (general) should reject your faith or judge that entire faith by the actions of a minority of extremist believers. In every faith there are those who take it to the extreme OR twist the holy teachings/book to fit their own bigoted views and to justify their actions.

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:


I'm having a mental breakdown of tiny proportions, lol!



The group that introduced me to Buddhism is more or less a cult. A fact I was blind to for a while. I know how I feel when I pray, but I also know the intellectual feeling of utter disgust when I came across a story of Buddhist killing Muslims in refugee camps. I can't just say, well they aren't following the same thing I am.



I don't know, I'm conflicted and very confused at the moment.
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