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Atheist Faith – Faith is Common in the Human Experience But here's the rub on Atheist Faith and Religious Faith. It wasn't the fact that faith exists within all of us that beguiled Dr. Keller; it was how each of us expresses our faith that captured his imagination. Think about it. By virtue of our various worldviews, each of us discovers a sense of belonging. Whether you are a Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, or a Freethinker, you will find other people who share your belief system. You will also soon appreciate that there are many more people who disagree with your beliefs and consider them simply wrong. What is common to all of us is the tendency to marginalize those who don't believe as we do; to consider ourselves better than those who haven't been similarly enlightened.

In this sense, we can't help but agree with Christopher Hitchens. Religion does poison everything. And he certainly made that point clearly in his debate with Frank Turek. Christopher emoted, "Isn't it as plain as could be that those who commit the most callous, the most cruel, the most brutal, the most indiscriminate atrocities of all, do so precisely because they believe they have divine permission?" In many cases, we must humbly admit, he is correct. However, wasn't Pol Pot cruel and indiscriminate? Wasn't Joseph Stalin callous and brutal? Stalin was also indiscriminate. He copiously murdered people of all religions.

Richard Dawkins, in The God Delusion, suggests that while these men were indeed atheists, it wasn't their atheism that drove them to commit such atrocities. Stalin's atheism may not have led him to murder had it not been that his atheism first led him to marginalize the masses. His atheism led to self-supremacy and the marginalization of others, which in turn led to his genocidal acts. In his Contribution to Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, Karl Marx described religion as the "opiate of the masses." Supremacist thoughts would come easily to someone convinced that everyone else is walking around in a metaphorical drug-induced stupor. When it comes to atrocities, all religions, and even atheism, are in a dead heat.

But why is this so?

Atheist Faith – The Bottom Line The bottom line is that people are not led to commit atrocities by either Atheist Faith or Religious Faith, but rather by the insidious seduction of power and the serpentine invasiveness of pride. These lead to a misguided sense of moral superiority. When an individual of one group sees himself as superior to those of another group — as more deserving, more enlightened, more noble — he is bound to subjugate outsiders mentally, verbally, and eventually physically. When religion leads people to view others as lower than themselves, then it does spoil everything.

Full article here: http://www.allaboutworldview.org/atheist-faith.htm

by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM
Replies (31-40):
FrogSalad
by Sooze on Jan. 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM
1 mom liked this

Atheism, by definition, is a lack of belief in dieties.  Atheism is silent on belief in any other subject.  For example, some atheists believe in ghosts while others do not.  My opinion is that those people have faith that ghosts exist but that doesn't make them any less of an atheist.


Quoting JavaLadybug2:

That's not true.

Atheist's usually are that way because they have beleifs in something.. other than religion.. It is not a lack of beleif.. It is a replaced "Faith" in other things.. USUALLY SCIENCE.. Which is fine.. Even as a person of faith.. I agree with much of science. However I think that the stuborn insistance that only science's current stand on issues.. is more faith like than they wish to admit!

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting JavaLadybug2:

I think this is AMAZING!

Very well said!


the only problem is, he's taking "faith" to the realm of religion for atheist.

Fact is atheism is NOT a religion.
Lindaclement said it best in a separate thread. She said you could see religion as an umbrella you always carry with you. The atheist simply does not carry an umbrella. Course, she said it much better. But that was the drift.




Atheist Mama?  Join us!

How paramount the future is to the present when one is surrounded by children.  Charles Darwin

FrogSalad
by Sooze on Jan. 5, 2013 at 9:52 PM


Quoting cueballsmom:


You don't have faith in science. You believe it because it gives you proof. The proof cancels out the faith aspect.

Agreed.



Atheist Mama?  Join us!

How paramount the future is to the present when one is surrounded by children.  Charles Darwin

cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 9:55 PM
Quoting FrogSalad:


Agree. It is hard for most people to desperate faith and religion. But your ghost example is a perfect illustration! Thank you!
cueballsmom
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 9:59 PM
Quoting futureshock:


so, an Atheist can't have faith? Or are you saying that atheism is not a faith?
romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 10:47 PM


Quoting JavaLadybug2:


Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.

The Black Book indicts the Soviet Union’s communist leaders with the following crimes (amongst many others): 

• The execution (without trial) of tens of thousands of hostages and prisoners and the murder of hundreds of thousands of workers and peasants in Russia from 1918 to 1922 under Vladimir Lenin. 

• Deliberately destroying all food and crops so as to starve to death 5 million people in Russia in 1922.

•The extermination of the Cossacks in 1920.

•The liquidation of 690 000 people in the great purge of 1937 - 38.

•The destruction of 4 million Ukrainians and 2 million other people in the man-made and systematically perpetrated dekulakisation famine of 1932 - 1933.

Make your point and then I will answer.

p.s.  I am very aware of Stalin's misdeeds.  One of the most effective books was Forever Flowing, if you want to read it.  I still have nightmares.

romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 10:49 PM


Quoting JP-StrongForTwo:

Hey roma! check it out! we agree on something :P 

i have agreed with everything you said in this post lol. 

It happens from time to time.  Always good to agree, but sometimes fun to disagree.  :-)

Hope you had a happy New Year and good Christmas!

JP-StrongForTwo
by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 10:51 PM
1 mom liked this

now im gonna go find one we can argue about lol. 

we did. i hope you guys did too :) 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting JP-StrongForTwo:

Hey roma! check it out! we agree on something :P 

i have agreed with everything you said in this post lol. 

It happens from time to time.  Always good to agree, but sometimes fun to disagree.  :-)

Hope you had a happy New Year and good Christmas!


Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Jan. 5, 2013 at 11:02 PM

If you believe ~ or feel that there is enough evidence ~ that there is no god, no higher power, no intelligence outside of human intelligence, that IS a belief. Whether or not I'd call it a belief system is a moot point. As for Atheism being called a religion, that is what the supreme court wrote into law.

I look at it this way; knowing that the sun will come up each morning (because you know that is the way the solar system is laid out and as long as we keep orbiting the sun, and earth keeps spinning on it's axis, it will reappear each day) is different than believing that there is no god.

There is no more proof of no god, than there is proof that there is one/more. What you believe is what you believe. Given the number of individuals who believe the same thing you do, it might be better called belief without a system, but it's definitely a belief.

Quoting babie113:

I agree with you Roma. I can't tell you how many times a believer has told me atheism is a religion and that everyone is a believer in something. What a load of Tosh.
Quoting romalove:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.


I don't think he thought that one out!

Good looking out Roma!



I'm on a search, and came across this, and thought it sounded interesting. He uses faith in it's basic definition, which is to believe something without knowing for sure. Like he said, you have faith that a red light will make the crossing lane stop. I'm not sure I fully buy that, though.

I'll be honest.

This reads to me like someone trying to seem like they are even handed about religion, but in fact are not.

Calling atheism "atheist faith" is a big red flag for me.  His use of Hitchens draws you in to the idea that he's up on atheist writings.  But he describes "freethinkers" as having a "belief system".  I reject the idea of atheism as a belief system because it simply is not.  It is just the non-belief in a supernatural higher power.  Period, end of sentence.  That's not a belief system.

And I think religious people want to put atheism on par with religion as just another religion choice to muddy the waters.  Everyone picks a religion, everyone has faith in something even if it's in "Atheism".  

This is all nonsense.

I don't think atheists in general are "marginalizing" people who don't believe as they do.  I think most atheists don't care about what others believe.  It is a personal decision some people come to, and live without the trappings of religion and/or belief.  

There "are" a few people who have come together and meet or make organizations, but they speak only for themselves and not for the majority.

It is frustrating because people can't see that.  


parentalrights1
by on Jan. 5, 2013 at 11:22 PM
1 mom liked this
Yeah you definitely see alot of christians thinking they are superior and more deserving than everyone else. Of course we see that in every belief system. I just wish there were more that could accept that everyone's beliefs are equally relevant until there is absolute proof one way or the other.
romalove
by Roma on Jan. 5, 2013 at 11:25 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting Farmlady09:

If you believe ~ or feel that there is enough evidence ~ that there is no god, no higher power, no intelligence outside of human intelligence, that IS a belief. Whether or not I'd call it a belief system is a moot point. As for Atheism being called a religion, that is what the supreme court wrote into law.

I look at it this way; knowing that the sun will come up each morning (because you know that is the way the solar system is laid out and as long as we keep orbiting the sun, and earth keeps spinning on it's axis, it will reappear each day) is different than believing that there is no god.

There is no more proof of no god, than there is proof that there is one/more. What you believe is what you believe. Given the number of individuals who believe the same thing you do, it might be better called belief without a system, but it's definitely a belief.

Quoting babie113:

I agree with you Roma. I can't tell you how many times a believer has told me atheism is a religion and that everyone is a believer in something. What a load of Tosh.
Quoting romalove:


Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting romalove:

Atheist faith?

Not buying that one.

I disagree with the "bottom line".  There is nothing in the idea that a person doesn't believe in God that compells them to harm someone else.  There is something in the idea that believing that God tells you to kill others who don't believe as you do could be the cause of harming someone else.


I don't think he thought that one out!

Good looking out Roma!



I'm on a search, and came across this, and thought it sounded interesting. He uses faith in it's basic definition, which is to believe something without knowing for sure. Like he said, you have faith that a red light will make the crossing lane stop. I'm not sure I fully buy that, though.

I'll be honest.

This reads to me like someone trying to seem like they are even handed about religion, but in fact are not.

Calling atheism "atheist faith" is a big red flag for me.  His use of Hitchens draws you in to the idea that he's up on atheist writings.  But he describes "freethinkers" as having a "belief system".  I reject the idea of atheism as a belief system because it simply is not.  It is just the non-belief in a supernatural higher power.  Period, end of sentence.  That's not a belief system.

And I think religious people want to put atheism on par with religion as just another religion choice to muddy the waters.  Everyone picks a religion, everyone has faith in something even if it's in "Atheism".  

This is all nonsense.

I don't think atheists in general are "marginalizing" people who don't believe as they do.  I think most atheists don't care about what others believe.  It is a personal decision some people come to, and live without the trappings of religion and/or belief.  

There "are" a few people who have come together and meet or make organizations, but they speak only for themselves and not for the majority.

It is frustrating because people can't see that.  


Then everything you don't think exists is a belief for you too.

There is NO evidence that God exists.  If you have some, I'd love to hear/see/feel/touch it.

There is "no" evidence that God doesn't exist outside that pesky no evidence that he exists thing. 

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