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by on Jan. 11, 2013 at 4:55 PM
Replies (21-30):
stormcris
by Christy on Jan. 11, 2013 at 11:07 PM

I do not think anyone really wants big government just people don't think through their ideas before making comments.

TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Jan. 12, 2013 at 12:16 AM

No, I'm not for "big government" in any way.  Restraining government to its original limitations would mean moderate government, not "big" government. 

Are you familiar with the NDAA, that permits the government to incarcerate anyone (yes, that is ANYONE, not only foreign nationals, as some erroneously argue) indefinitely without due process anywhere in the world in direct violation of the Fifth Amendment?  The government can independently determine that someone is a "security threat", you know, dangerous people like Ron Paul supporters or conservatives.  Do you know it permits the president to establish martial law at his own discretion?   Obviously you are not familiar, if you like big government. 

Sorry, but I live in a nation that is supposed to have Constitutional checks and balances, not despotic rule by a President. 

Your argument that you personally haven't been mauled, nor personally felt violated by an intrusive extensive questionnaire that inquires into your mental state and relationships among the people in your house is akin to my arguing that I haven't personally been discriminated against so discrimination doesn't happen.

Quoting Momniscient:

So...

Big government is okay as long as it's something you approve of like the military and infrastructure.

I've never been pawed at the airport and I've never felt negative repercussions from allowing the government to use a survey to serve the community in a statistical manner so you'll have to forgive me if those things don't make for an argument that sways me. I don't think anyone but my obnoxious and psycho ex husband is stalking my cell phone.

When did the government EVER fit in 'appropriate' boundaries? When there were 3 million as opposed to 300+ million Americans? I think even then there would be plenty whose answer would be... it didn't.

Quoting TranquilMind:

It works just fine.  Return the government to its appropriate boundaries, handling ONLY the things designated to it constitutionally, which would encompass military,  infrastructure, roads, etc. 

Not pawing people at the airport, listening to their cell phone calls, demanding pages of intrusive documentation for the American Community Survey, and all that kind of garbage. 

Quoting Momniscient:

How does that all work with roads and parks and things?

Quoting TranquilMind:

Right.  Conservatives are not the same as Republicans.

Libertarians are even better.  Vote Libertarian and get rid of this nonworking system. 

Quoting JCB911:

Republicans might want big gov't - Conservatives do NOT. Which is why so many conservatives don't like being called Republican, so many Repubs are RINOs once they get elected.

The less the gov't does for us the more we can do for ourselves.  The more we should do for ourselves and for others.

 


 



Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Jan. 12, 2013 at 12:21 AM
1 mom liked this

So when was the government acceptably moderate in your mind? When Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus? Or when the people just didn't know that security threats were taken care of? When was the last time you were taken to prison just because? When were you subject to martial law?

I didn't say discrimination doesn't happen. That's why I think it's awesome that 'big' government has checks and balances in place to try to ensure that discrimination isn't institutionalized.

Interesting isn't it? Some of those things weren't in place when your ideal government seemed to exist.

Quoting TranquilMind:

No, I'm not for "big government" in any way.  Restraining government to its original limitations would mean moderate government, not "big" government. 

Are you familiar with the NDAA, that permits the government to incarcerate anyone (yes, that is ANYONE, not only foreign nationals, as some erroneously argue) indefinitely without due process anywhere in the world in direct violation of the Fifth Amendment?  The government can independently determine that someone is a "security threat", you know, dangerous people like Ron Paul supporters or conservatives.  Do you know it permits the president to establish martial law at his own discretion?   Obviously you are not familiar, if you like big government. 

Sorry, but I live in a nation that is supposed to have Constitutional checks and balances, not despotic rule by a President. 

Your argument that you personally haven't been mauled, nor personally felt violated by an intrusive extensive questionnaire that inquires into your mental state and relationships among the people in your house is akin to my arguing that I haven't personally been discriminated against so discrimination doesn't happen.

Quoting Momniscient:

So...

Big government is okay as long as it's something you approve of like the military and infrastructure.

I've never been pawed at the airport and I've never felt negative repercussions from allowing the government to use a survey to serve the community in a statistical manner so you'll have to forgive me if those things don't make for an argument that sways me. I don't think anyone but my obnoxious and psycho ex husband is stalking my cell phone.

When did the government EVER fit in 'appropriate' boundaries? When there were 3 million as opposed to 300+ million Americans? I think even then there would be plenty whose answer would be... it didn't.

Quoting TranquilMind:

It works just fine.  Return the government to its appropriate boundaries, handling ONLY the things designated to it constitutionally, which would encompass military,  infrastructure, roads, etc. 

Not pawing people at the airport, listening to their cell phone calls, demanding pages of intrusive documentation for the American Community Survey, and all that kind of garbage. 

Quoting Momniscient:

How does that all work with roads and parks and things?

Quoting TranquilMind:

Right.  Conservatives are not the same as Republicans.

Libertarians are even better.  Vote Libertarian and get rid of this nonworking system. 

Quoting JCB911:

Republicans might want big gov't - Conservatives do NOT. Which is why so many conservatives don't like being called Republican, so many Repubs are RINOs once they get elected.

The less the gov't does for us the more we can do for ourselves.  The more we should do for ourselves and for others.








littleladiesx3
by Member on Jan. 13, 2013 at 1:12 AM

why did you have to make me say 'blue waffle' in my head!!??

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 13, 2013 at 1:28 AM

Libertarians are cool with the gays. I thought you didn't like the gays or something nonsensical like that. 

Quoting TranquilMind:

Right.  Conservatives are not the same as Republicans.

Libertarians are even better.  Vote Libertarian and get rid of this nonworking system. 

Quoting JCB911:

Republicans might want big gov't - Conservatives do NOT. Which is why so many conservatives don't like being called Republican, so many Repubs are RINOs once they get elected.

The less the gov't does for us the more we can do for ourselves.  The more we should do for ourselves and for others. 


mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jan. 13, 2013 at 1:33 AM
1 mom liked this

When humans are at the helm of anything, fuck ups are bound to happen. Humans have been walking around in this form with these brains for about 100,000 years (more or less, that's the conservative number) and we've had widespread central government systems for 6,000 years. It arose probably because population size increased and so there had to be something in place to keep people from royally fucking each other over without community relationships to stop them. 

We haven't quite adapted to this...government thing. Give it time. We'll figure it out eventually. Hopefully. 

Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Jan. 13, 2013 at 1:51 AM

Evil grin

Quoting littleladiesx3:

why did you have to make me say 'blue waffle' in my head!!??



gammie
by on Jan. 13, 2013 at 1:57 AM
This is so true that is why I did not vote! We need to clean up Washington! and by voting for the same over and over again is not going to do it!


Quoting OHgirlinCA:

 Republicans want "big" government just as much as Democrats.  They're just focusing on different areas and don't want to admit to it.


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TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Jan. 14, 2013 at 1:16 AM

I do not dislike any people at all.  Certain behaviors - and not just that one - are not beneficial to society, in my view, and I'm allowed to hold it.  Why would anyone care anyway...that battle is long over. 

Quoting mehamil1:

Libertarians are cool with the gays. I thought you didn't like the gays or something nonsensical like that. 

Quoting TranquilMind:

Right.  Conservatives are not the same as Republicans.

Libertarians are even better.  Vote Libertarian and get rid of this nonworking system. 

Quoting JCB911:

Republicans might want big gov't - Conservatives do NOT. Which is why so many conservatives don't like being called Republican, so many Repubs are RINOs once they get elected.

The less the gov't does for us the more we can do for ourselves.  The more we should do for ourselves and for others. 

 


Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Jan. 14, 2013 at 2:17 AM
1 mom liked this
Gay behavior is not beneficial to society? Love isn't beneficial eh?
That is certainly an interestig viewpoint and you are entitled to your view. You just aren't entitled to have anyone respect your view.


Quoting TranquilMind:

I do not dislike any people at all.  Certain behaviors - and not just that one - are not beneficial to society, in my view, and I'm allowed to hold it.  Why would anyone care anyway...that battle is long over. 


Quoting mehamil1:


Libertarians are cool with the gays. I thought you didn't like the gays or something nonsensical like that. 


Quoting TranquilMind:

Right.  Conservatives are not the same as Republicans.

Libertarians are even better.  Vote Libertarian and get rid of this nonworking system. 


Quoting JCB911:

Republicans might want big gov't - Conservatives do NOT. Which is why so many conservatives don't like being called Republican, so many Repubs are RINOs once they get elected.


The less the gov't does for us the more we can do for ourselves.  The more we should do for ourselves and for others. 


 



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