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What's the deal about teachers?

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Please explain what I'm missing here. I know I'm missing something, but I just can't seem to grasp it.

I'm in WI.  We just has an overhaul of our public workers' unions, including the teachers. Teachers now have to pay a small percent for their health insurance, and a small percent for their pension.  (less than 10% for both I think it's 6% of the premiums for insurance, and 8% for pensions, but not 100% sure).  And collective bargaining has ended, meaning teachers CAN be represented by a union, however the union doesn't have much say for anything other than salary raises up to a few percent per year.

So my middle-of-the-road-friend and I were talking about another "friend", we all went to school together.  My friend mentions our other friend, who is a teacher, is looking into quitting and going into another line of work b/c of the politics, b/c so much was taken away. My middle-of-the-road friend didn't elaborate, she doesn't like politics talk.

So I come home and look up other friend, public employees salaries are all accessible online.  She makes 43k and gets 31k in benefits - so while she makes 43k, she costs us 74k.  Pension, healthcare, sick days (I think WI teachers get like 12 or something crazy like that), vacation days,  I'm not sure how all of that addes up to 31k!   As a taxpayer I think that's crazy.  She gets paid a decent amount, nothing huge, not too low.  Certainly livable and then some - plus she doesn't have to save much for retirement since that nice cushy pension will be waiting for her.   I get that teacher is a job, some teachers have it harder than others, but almost all have about 3 months off during the year.  I get that while school is in session they might work more than 40 hr/wk, but I doubt they work so much more that it averages to 40hr/wk for 50 wks. (I doubt it's 2000 hrs, like a regular job).

I just hear so many teachers complain about their job and go on and on how hard it is to be a teacher. but I can't think it's much harder than any other job. And other jobs don't have summers off, and end with a cushy pension. 

What am I missing?  They lost a little in the union stuff that happened, but they used to not pay anything for their health and pension.  Don't they see that they had a ridiculousy sweet deal before and now they have just a sweet deal.  Don't they see they were taking advantage of the tax payers and now, well they still have a good job, with good ay and awesome benefits.

I was a TA while in grad school, I got my tution for free and got paid, like 5k - that was a sweet deal for the amount of work I did (very little).  I wouldn't have fussed if they cut my pay b/c I shouldn't have made that much to begin with.


CafeMom Tickers

by on Jan. 15, 2013 at 6:23 PM
Replies (121-124):
canadianmom1974
by Gold Member on Jan. 16, 2013 at 10:11 PM
Well then I guess I work with exceptional teachers. Rarely do they leave that early enmass, and when they do it's generally with arms full of work to do at home. Quite often late at night after they've coached a sports team (volunteer) or supervised an after school club or activity (volunteer).

But I don't expect you to change your mind on the value or worth of teachers, didn't you unschool or non school? I don't see you as having much respect for teachers and the job they do.


Quoting LindaClement:

I can't name all of them, but I can see the high school teachers' parking lot from my house. At 5 minutes after the final bell, you could drop a bomb on it and only risk damaging 3 or 4 cars, any day of the week.

Back in the olden days, before the teacher's union turned into the Teamsters, teachers were paid from 8-5, with an hour break. All of what they didn't have time for in the classroom was done before and after school. Of course, way back when, they also had to (half of them at a time, when student:adult ratio on the schoolgrounds wasn't allowed to be 80:1) monitor the grounds at both recesses and lunch.

Somehow, their regular 8 hours of paid days, with 8 weeks off for summer, 2 weeks off at Christmas and 1 at Easter, got shortened to 180 days of 8:45-2:50, 1:55 on Fridays or Wednesdays, and suddenly they're slaves who are grossly overworked and grossly underpaid.

I think it's called New Math. 

Quoting canadianmom1974:

'Must' work, not actually do work. I would love for someone to actually name one teacher that does not work outside of school hours/days, that only works 9:00 - 3:30. I have a feeling they'd be hard to find.



Quoting LindaClement:

Except there aren't 180 teaching days in BC. Teachers in BC have the number of minutes they must work written into their contracts.

Quoting canadianmom1974:

Teachers may only be paid for 180 instructional days per year, but you can add PD days to that, add the hours they are at the school before and after class hours, days they're at the school on weekends and during the summer, hours they spend (and money they spend out of their own pocket) continuing their own education, and tell me how well teachers are paid.





Honestly I think that a lot of people have no idea what teachers actually do.






Quoting LindaClement:

Me either.

I also wouldn't become a nurse, or long-distance trucker, football player or miner... 

That doesn't mean they're 'worth' the kinds of incomes they get as a result of powerful unions.

'Most' teachers do not teach summer school. There is no need for that many, because the vast majority of kids do not go to summer school.

What else they decide to do for money in their off-time is completely irrelevant to the discussion. They're paid for 180 very-short days a year, for which they are very well rewarded.

Quoting Bigmetalchicken:

I am not a fan of public education, but good teachers put in far more work than they get paid for. And the good ones are usually the ones that get run over the most. Not to mention that entitled parenting has made it nearly impossible for a teacher to control the classroom so the kids that want to learn can.  Also, most of them do not have the summer off, because they are tutoring, teaching summer school, doing inservice, helping with the school sponsored clubs, and many of them have to get part time jobs as well because they do not make enough.

I would not be a teacher for all the money in the world.




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LindaClement
by Linda on Jan. 17, 2013 at 7:58 PM

I had excellent teachers, throughout my education.

I have also known a great many excellent teachers. Many of them have left the entire system, because of the influence and power of the unions. Imagine dealing with the third grievance in a single term, primarily for working too much, or --horrors!!-- meeting with parents outside of class time. Those union folks have a big hate on for 'making us look bad' and a whole lot of power --in BC.

There are still excellent teachers, who have not yet retired or moved into the private system or alternative schools, but they are (and always have been) outnumbered.

I have a lot of respect for excellence, and none at all for face-down-in-the-trough, and it doesn't matter at all what field it is in.

My kids homeschooled because of (one of the many 'lower the bar' policies in BC) the 'no retention, no acceleration policy. When the kid entering kindergarten can read, count to 100 and back and likes to sit and copy things out of books ... what exactly do you think a kindergarten room has that the community we live in doesn't have? The natural history museum, undersea museum and miniature museum that we had family passes to, and went to a couple of times a month? A full-service library, with reference librarians on hand all day? (School libraries here have been gutted and are often only open for class use, with no librarian on site or often not even on staff.) A safe, supervised outdoor space to play in any time, in any weather, even if no one else wanted to go? A neighbourhood full of kids of various ages available the other 185 days a year, as well as every school day after 3pm? The ability to eat when hungry, nap when tired, use the toilet in privacy as often as necessary or explore whatever currently interested her, for as long as she was interested?

We didn't choose to homeschool because of the school, or the people in it. We chose to homeschool because we believed (and still believe) it was the best way for her to learn everything she needed to at her own pace, without having to wait (like I did) for 5 years to get to the interesting math... or for the month I'd be 'taught' something I didn't already know.

That it also happens to be the best way to avoid being treated like a number or an average or simply a body to be pushed, even if it is gently, through a faceless and often completely brainless system --well, that was just a happy side effect.

Quoting canadianmom1974:

Well then I guess I work with exceptional teachers. Rarely do they leave that early enmass, and when they do it's generally with arms full of work to do at home. Quite often late at night after they've coached a sports team (volunteer) or supervised an after school club or activity (volunteer).

But I don't expect you to change your mind on the value or worth of teachers, didn't you unschool or non school? I don't see you as having much respect for teachers and the job they do.


Quoting LindaClement:

I can't name all of them, but I can see the high school teachers' parking lot from my house. At 5 minutes after the final bell, you could drop a bomb on it and only risk damaging 3 or 4 cars, any day of the week.

Back in the olden days, before the teacher's union turned into the Teamsters, teachers were paid from 8-5, with an hour break. All of what they didn't have time for in the classroom was done before and after school. Of course, way back when, they also had to (half of them at a time, when student:adult ratio on the schoolgrounds wasn't allowed to be 80:1) monitor the grounds at both recesses and lunch.

Somehow, their regular 8 hours of paid days, with 8 weeks off for summer, 2 weeks off at Christmas and 1 at Easter, got shortened to 180 days of 8:45-2:50, 1:55 on Fridays or Wednesdays, and suddenly they're slaves who are grossly overworked and grossly underpaid.

I think it's called New Math. 

Quoting canadianmom1974:

'Must' work, not actually do work. I would love for someone to actually name one teacher that does not work outside of school hours/days, that only works 9:00 - 3:30. I have a feeling they'd be hard to find.



Quoting LindaClement:

Except there aren't 180 teaching days in BC. Teachers in BC have the number of minutes they must work written into their contracts.

Quoting canadianmom1974:

Teachers may only be paid for 180 instructional days per year, but you can add PD days to that, add the hours they are at the school before and after class hours, days they're at the school on weekends and during the summer, hours they spend (and money they spend out of their own pocket) continuing their own education, and tell me how well teachers are paid.





Honestly I think that a lot of people have no idea what teachers actually do.






Quoting LindaClement:

Me either.

I also wouldn't become a nurse, or long-distance trucker, football player or miner... 

That doesn't mean they're 'worth' the kinds of incomes they get as a result of powerful unions.

'Most' teachers do not teach summer school. There is no need for that many, because the vast majority of kids do not go to summer school.

What else they decide to do for money in their off-time is completely irrelevant to the discussion. They're paid for 180 very-short days a year, for which they are very well rewarded.

Quoting Bigmetalchicken:

I am not a fan of public education, but good teachers put in far more work than they get paid for. And the good ones are usually the ones that get run over the most. Not to mention that entitled parenting has made it nearly impossible for a teacher to control the classroom so the kids that want to learn can.  Also, most of them do not have the summer off, because they are tutoring, teaching summer school, doing inservice, helping with the school sponsored clubs, and many of them have to get part time jobs as well because they do not make enough.

I would not be a teacher for all the money in the world.





TexasSonrisa
by New Member on Jan. 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

I know salaries are. Our salary schedule is online. I didn't realize the benefits were too. Thanks. 


Quoting JCB911:

It's online.  Public employees salary is online. There's a website you can go to and just look up districts or speicifc names.  I looked up my old High school friend, and that is exaclty what she makes 43k wages, 31k in benefits.

Quoting TexasSonrisa:

I may have missed this, but how did you figure all of the benefits, etc.? Just curious. 




survivorinohio
by René on Jan. 18, 2013 at 1:54 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting romalove:


Quoting LauraKW:

 Bring cookies.

Quoting TruthSeeker.:

 

Quoting LauraKW:

 I'm just going to watch this one.

  I'll sit on your bench. I'm a little disgruntled with my daughters teacher right now, so I don't have many nice things to say about teachers.

 

I'm furious with one of my daughter's teachers right now, so I'm bringing a large bottle of wine.  I will share.

I am late in but I have some excellent baby swiss, some gouda and some brie I will bring a variety of crackers as well :)

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


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