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` Ignoring Threats, Doctors Do Third-Trimester Abortions

 

 

'After Tiller': Ignoring Threats, Doctors Do Third-Trimester Abortions

PHOTO: (Clockwise from top left) Dr. Robinson, Dr. Sella, Dr. Carhart, Dr. Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
 
(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan Robinson, Shelley Sella, LeRoy Carhart, Warren Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions. (After Tiller)
 

By NANCY RAMSEY
Jan. 21, 2013

 

 

Spend 10 minutes on the phone with Dr. Susan Robinson, an obstetrician-gynecologist who specializes in providing women with third-trimester abortions, and the name Aron Ralston will invariably come up. He's the mountain climber who was trapped in a canyon in Utah after a boulder crushed his right hand. He was pinned down by the boulder for five days (the film "127 Hours" is based on his story) until he realized the only way he could get free would be to cut off his hand.

 

It's a graphic, horrific image, but Robinson says it's the best analogy she can think of to describe women who are pregnant in their third trimester and "have thought about it deeply, consulted their conscience, wrestled with the ethics, and decided the best thing for themselves and their families is to have an abortion."

 

"People think you choose an abortion like you choose red or green shoes, or a flavor of ice cream," Robinson told ABC News. "But in fact, they [the women I see] need an abortion the way Aron Ralston needed to cut his hand off."

 

Robinson is one of four doctors featured in the documentary "After Tiller," which screened at the Sundance Film Festival this past weekend. "A#Sundance first: security guards checking bags and wanding people before abortion documentary 'After Tiller,'" tweeted Sean Means, movie critic for The Salt Lake Tribune.

 

(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan... View Full Size
PHOTO: (Clockwise from top left) Dr. Robinson, Dr. Sella, Dr. Carhart, Dr. Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
After Tiller
(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan Robinson, Shelley Sella, LeRoy Carhart, Warren Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
 
 
 
Against Abortion, Ann Romney Calls It a 'Tender Issue' Watch Video

The film takes its name from Dr. George Tiller, a third-trimester abortion provider in Wichita, Kan., who was assassinated in May 2009 while attending church. Robinson worked with Tiller, as did Shelley Sella, who worked as a midwife before becoming a doctor and abortion provider, and is also featured in the film. The two now operate out of a clinic in Albuquerque.

 

"We learned at his knee," said Robinson, speaking of Tiller. "Kindness, courtesy, justice, love and respect are the hallmarks of a good doctor-patient relationship. People tell me every single day, 'Dr. Robinson, you've given me my life back.' For these women it is life or death. Many women try to self-abort. The less available it is, the poor will have the hardest time."

 

A Red-Hot Issue

 

If abortion is a hot-button political issue, then third-trimester abortion is red-hot, and such words as "kindness" and "respect" are not two that leap to mind for many people. The arrest two years ago of Philadelphia doctor Kermit Gosnell, accused of killing a woman with a lethal dose of Demerol, put a gruesome face on doctors performing third-trimester abortions. Police, searching his office, found what prosecutors called "a house of horrors," bags and bottles of aborted fetuses scattered throughout the building, a place where fetuses were delivered live and then killed with scissors.

 

Even many supporters of abortion rights draw a line at third-trimester abortions. A 2011 Gallup poll showed that making abortion illegal in the last trimester got strong support from both pro-choice (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (94 percent). Laws passed in 41 states prohibit abortions, except to protect the woman's life, after a certain point in the pregnancy, usually fetal viability (about 24 weeks). In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester.

 

by on Jan. 21, 2013 at 8:32 AM
Replies (141-150):
LoganTroyMom
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:44 PM
nice try, but when a christian tries to use their religion for pro-life, we get slammed and told to keep our religion out of the government.
yourr opinion is your opinion but keep your religion out of it HYPOCRITE.


Quoting Bookwormy:

You wish to call the pro-choice movement hypocritical. I'm getting rid of the hypocricy. Until the fetus is born, its a fetus according to orthodox Jewish law & that's what matters to me. To save the mother's life we are commanded by the rabbis to rip the fetus apart limb by limb if need be. Are you happy now. At least I know biology, I know my faith, & you will not call me a hypocrite. Eat your BS words.




Quoting LoganTroyMom:

to take away the option to murder your child is not criminal. that's extremely absurd. if two people are drowning and you can only save one, are you a murderer for allowing the other person to die?





for the record, i believe in exceptions in cases of life or death, but still.






Quoting Bookwormy:

Its a fetus at any stage until birth. To take away choice is criminal. And if a woman dies because you chose to save the fetus, then you're a murderer, period.








Quoting LoganTroyMom:

How is it any different than an 8 week developed baby? Is a woman only a little pregnant for the first few months? it's still in her body. her body her choice right?









abortion is wrong at any stage of development. to say otherwise is dehumanizing and hypocritical.









you said it yourself- to kill a baby is murder. a newly developing baby is no less a baby than one at 28 weeks. we are not- should not be, rather- a community that judges the right to live on how closely one reselmbles an "ideal" person.










Quoting radioheid:

 Once you reach the third trimester, you're carrying a baby. Period. And to kill a baby is murder. End of story. There is absolutely no excuse. These people are professional murderers.



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SweetChild63
by Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:45 PM

Then how about: There is nothing in the US constitution that requires that me or anyone else to put childless couple above my right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Quoting 1REALQT:

There really is no need to personally insult. You posed a question, I simply countered with a reversal question, you became offended...end of discussion.
Quoting SweetChild63:

You have no compassion nor understanding nor empathy for pregnant woman in this position.

Quoting 1REALQT:

Is it not even more offensive and ignorant, not to mention devoid of compassion to assume that just because the baby is worthless to you means that it's worthless to everyone else?
Quoting SweetChild63:

A better question is , why would she want to? It's highly offensive and ignornant to think women are nothing more than breeding stock. 

Quoting abbie.alder:

Thats a good point. But if the case is that the mother simply cannot afford nor has the time for another child, but the fetus is healthy in every way, why wouldn't she just let someone adopt the baby?

Quoting Arroree:



Quoting abbie.alder:

If the mothers are more than half way done, why don't they just give the child up for adoption?

99% of these cases are cases of the fetus having fatal defects *as in there's NO way they can survive* or the fetus is already dying in the womb.











LoganTroyMom
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM
no, it's NOT in a vegetative state. it's PERFECTLY FINE until you KILL IT. THERIN LIES THE DIFFERENCE. if a person in a vegetative state will be a "normal person" in 9mos, there's no reason to cut life support because of your own selfish reasons.

Quoting AdellesMom:

Many people that are pro-life, are for/against those things. Anyhow, it's not hypocritical. A baby is viable around 24 (or 26) weeks. At that point, abortion should be considered murder. Before then, a baby isn't viable. As a PP stated, it's like a vegetable attached to a life support machine.



As for the comparison, it's not strange or silly.




Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.





it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.






Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.







The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.








Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".
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LoganTroyMom
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM
no, i believe in life or death exceptions. if a woman cannot physically or mentally carry a baby to term her dr should be able to prescribe her an abortion if she wishes but no it should not be just a "choice" to make on their own. people want to call it a medical procedure, well then it needs to be treated as such.


Quoting jaxTheMomm:

You are also, apparently, pro-let a mother die and/or pro-force a woman to carry a doomed pregnancy against her will.

While stating that it's wrong to "kill a helpless child".

THAT is hypocritical.


Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.



it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.




Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.





The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.






Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".




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LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:56 PM
You WANT the fetus to be perfectly fine, you HOPE it will be perfectly fine, but many times you won't know if there are serious issues with the viability of a fetus until it reaches / begins to reach the age of viability.

*general you


Quoting LoganTroyMom:

no, it's NOT in a vegetative state. it's PERFECTLY FINE until you KILL IT. THERIN LIES THE DIFFERENCE. if a person in a vegetative state will be a "normal person" in 9mos, there's no reason to cut life support because of your own selfish reasons.



Quoting AdellesMom:

Many people that are pro-life, are for/against those things. Anyhow, it's not hypocritical. A baby is viable around 24 (or 26) weeks. At that point, abortion should be considered murder. Before then, a baby isn't viable. As a PP stated, it's like a vegetable attached to a life support machine.





As for the comparison, it's not strange or silly.






Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.







it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.








Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.









The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.










Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".
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LoganTroyMom
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:59 PM
i don't think it's alright to kill a baby because it's imperfect.

Quoting LauraKW:

You WANT the fetus to be perfectly fine, you HOPE it will be perfectly fine, but many times you won't know if there are serious issues with the viability of a fetus until it reaches / begins to reach the age of viability.



*general you




Quoting LoganTroyMom:

no, it's NOT in a vegetative state. it's PERFECTLY FINE until you KILL IT. THERIN LIES THE DIFFERENCE. if a person in a vegetative state will be a "normal person" in 9mos, there's no reason to cut life support because of your own selfish reasons.





Quoting AdellesMom:

Many people that are pro-life, are for/against those things. Anyhow, it's not hypocritical. A baby is viable around 24 (or 26) weeks. At that point, abortion should be considered murder. Before then, a baby isn't viable. As a PP stated, it's like a vegetable attached to a life support machine.







As for the comparison, it's not strange or silly.








Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.









it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.










Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.











The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.












Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".
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Woodbabe
by Woodie on Jan. 22, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Laws banning this procedure obviously doesn't stop it from happening....they just go underground. That's why I laugh when people want to criminalize abortion. Really? Do you think it will stop? Desperate women will always find a way.

Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 1:02 PM

Um...

I don't think you really understand this issue.

At all.

Quoting LoganTroyMom:

no, i believe in life or death exceptions. if a woman cannot physically or mentally carry a baby to term her dr should be able to prescribe her an abortion if she wishes but no it should not be just a "choice" to make on their own. people want to call it a medical procedure, well then it needs to be treated as such.


Quoting jaxTheMomm:

You are also, apparently, pro-let a mother die and/or pro-force a woman to carry a doomed pregnancy against her will.

While stating that it's wrong to "kill a helpless child".

THAT is hypocritical.


Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.



it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.




Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.





The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.






Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".






LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Jan. 22, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Who defines "imperfect"? Is a baby dying an excruciating death in the womb merely "imperfect"? What about a healthy fetus that hasn't reached the age of viability but will kill the mother if the pregnancy continues - is that baby "imperfect"? There are lots of grays, very few black and whites. Just to reiterate, third trimester abortions are illegal except in medically necessary situations, so it isn't like an 8 months pregnant woman can just walk into a clinic and get an abortion at her whim.

Quoting LoganTroyMom:

i don't think it's alright to kill a baby because it's imperfect.



Quoting LauraKW:

You WANT the fetus to be perfectly fine, you HOPE it will be perfectly fine, but many times you won't know if there are serious issues with the viability of a fetus until it reaches / begins to reach the age of viability.





*general you






Quoting LoganTroyMom:

no, it's NOT in a vegetative state. it's PERFECTLY FINE until you KILL IT. THERIN LIES THE DIFFERENCE. if a person in a vegetative state will be a "normal person" in 9mos, there's no reason to cut life support because of your own selfish reasons.







Quoting AdellesMom:

Many people that are pro-life, are for/against those things. Anyhow, it's not hypocritical. A baby is viable around 24 (or 26) weeks. At that point, abortion should be considered murder. Before then, a baby isn't viable. As a PP stated, it's like a vegetable attached to a life support machine.









As for the comparison, it's not strange or silly.










Quoting LoganTroyMom:

well now that's funny, because i'm not anti pa (although it needs serious reform), not pro war (although sometimes it's necessary, i do not support the wars we are in but i support the troops), i do support the 2nd amendment (funny how the "right to choose" wasn't as important as the right to bear arms! how strange to compare the right to defend yourself from tyranny to the "right" to kill a helpless child for your own selfish desires). oh and i don't support the dealth penalty.











it IS hypocritical, though. i already explained why so i will not repeat myself.












Quoting AdellesMom:

...and I find it hypocritical when pro-lifers are anti-PA, pro-guns, pro-war, and pro-death penalty.













The fact of the matter is that third trimester abortions are illegal, unless they're deemed medically necessary. FTR: I don't know anyone that's pro-choice that "condones" abortion. People that actually "condone" abortion are few and far between. It's not hypocritical to be pro-choice, and against late term abortions. Hell, I'm pro-choice, and against most abortions--for myself.














Quoting LoganTroyMom:

I find it incredibly hypocritical when pro choicers condone abortion yet are against 3rd trimester abortions. It's only ok when the baby doesn't look like a baby because it's easier to dehumanize them. Once they look like a Pampers ad, it's not "the mothers choice".
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Paperfishies
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM

Actually, you're wrong. 

I don't get my information from bias sources like right to life or whatever Christian bullshit that lifers are reading these days, so save your liberal, pro-choice diatribe for someone who thinks lifenews is a credible source, that ain't me darlin'. 

Burtram Odenheimer, who is a neurologist and board certified psychiatrist, worked at Tiller's clinic, As far as I know once Tiller caught a bullet Mr. Odenheiner high-tailed it and distanced himself from the clinic.  Last I read about him he was still a professor at KU, not sure what else he is up to these days.

Once again, there is a very large loophole in the law.  MENTAL HEALTH falls under medical necessity, as long as there is a psychiatrist willing to sign off on the abortion, as well as an obstetrician, it's all gravy from there, finding 2 doctors who would agree to sign off on a healthy, post-viability abortion is the key because those doctors are few and far between but they're out there.

Are late term abortions rare?  Yes, quite rare because most women who want to abort do so within the first 12 weeks of their pregnancy...Are late term abortions easy to obtain?  No, because most physicians have a conscience and realize how completely barbaric a post viability abortion is on a healthy fetus.  This is why Tiller's clinic was "special", this is why even many pro choicers had a problem with Tiller's clinic.  If you've ever read anything by Tiller where he talks about abortion, he has stated more than once that he believes as long as the fetus is in the woman's body, she has a right to a choice, no matter what. 

No one is arguing if post viability abortions of healthy fetuses are easy to obtain, because they aren't...However there are physicians out there who will preform them and can do so legally because of "medical necessity", since mental health also falls under "medical necessity".

Women traveled from all over the country to obtain abortions at Tiller's clinic because an abortion could be obtained at any time during a pregnancy there.  Tiller's clinic also offered special funding for women of low income who wanted to abort. 

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Nope.  I think you are pretty wrong.  There was no psychiatrist "employed" by Dr. Tiller.

There were, however, psychiatrists who would, if they felt it warranted, agree that a patient (like, a TEN YEAR OLD) should not have to deliver because of the damage it would do.

In fact, one psyciatrist lost her license to practice because her records deliberately hid the details necessary to identify such at-risk patients.  Operation Rescue found her records.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505092/kansas-doctor-loses-license-for-protecting-privacy-of-abortion-patients/?mobile=nc

You people will believe anything.  You didn't just walk into his clinic at 8 months pregnant and say, "You know, I've changed my mind...."  and they were all "Okey dokey..."

For fucks sake.  

Quoting Paperfishies:

Mental health falls under medical necessity.  That is how Tiller's clinic covered their ass.  A psychiatrist employed by Tiller's clinic would see the woman who wanted the late term abortion, the psychiatrist would sign off on it, stating an abortion was in the best interest of the patients mental health and a regular MD employed at the physician would sign off on the late term abortion and boom, the late term abortion is legal.  

This is why Tiller's clinic was so special, any woman could obtain a late term abortion, if she wanted one.  

 

 

 

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Third trimester abortions are illegal unless deemed medically necessary.  None of these articles seem to point that out.

 

 

 

 


 

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