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` Ignoring Threats, Doctors Do Third-Trimester Abortions

 

 

'After Tiller': Ignoring Threats, Doctors Do Third-Trimester Abortions

PHOTO: (Clockwise from top left) Dr. Robinson, Dr. Sella, Dr. Carhart, Dr. Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
 
(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan Robinson, Shelley Sella, LeRoy Carhart, Warren Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions. (After Tiller)
 

By NANCY RAMSEY
Jan. 21, 2013

 

 

Spend 10 minutes on the phone with Dr. Susan Robinson, an obstetrician-gynecologist who specializes in providing women with third-trimester abortions, and the name Aron Ralston will invariably come up. He's the mountain climber who was trapped in a canyon in Utah after a boulder crushed his right hand. He was pinned down by the boulder for five days (the film "127 Hours" is based on his story) until he realized the only way he could get free would be to cut off his hand.

 

It's a graphic, horrific image, but Robinson says it's the best analogy she can think of to describe women who are pregnant in their third trimester and "have thought about it deeply, consulted their conscience, wrestled with the ethics, and decided the best thing for themselves and their families is to have an abortion."

 

"People think you choose an abortion like you choose red or green shoes, or a flavor of ice cream," Robinson told ABC News. "But in fact, they [the women I see] need an abortion the way Aron Ralston needed to cut his hand off."

 

Robinson is one of four doctors featured in the documentary "After Tiller," which screened at the Sundance Film Festival this past weekend. "A#Sundance first: security guards checking bags and wanding people before abortion documentary 'After Tiller,'" tweeted Sean Means, movie critic for The Salt Lake Tribune.

 

(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan... View Full Size
PHOTO: (Clockwise from top left) Dr. Robinson, Dr. Sella, Dr. Carhart, Dr. Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
After Tiller
(Clockwise from top left) Drs. Susan Robinson, Shelley Sella, LeRoy Carhart, Warren Hern acknowledge publicly that they provide third-trimester abortions.
 
 
 
Against Abortion, Ann Romney Calls It a 'Tender Issue' Watch Video

The film takes its name from Dr. George Tiller, a third-trimester abortion provider in Wichita, Kan., who was assassinated in May 2009 while attending church. Robinson worked with Tiller, as did Shelley Sella, who worked as a midwife before becoming a doctor and abortion provider, and is also featured in the film. The two now operate out of a clinic in Albuquerque.

 

"We learned at his knee," said Robinson, speaking of Tiller. "Kindness, courtesy, justice, love and respect are the hallmarks of a good doctor-patient relationship. People tell me every single day, 'Dr. Robinson, you've given me my life back.' For these women it is life or death. Many women try to self-abort. The less available it is, the poor will have the hardest time."

 

A Red-Hot Issue

 

If abortion is a hot-button political issue, then third-trimester abortion is red-hot, and such words as "kindness" and "respect" are not two that leap to mind for many people. The arrest two years ago of Philadelphia doctor Kermit Gosnell, accused of killing a woman with a lethal dose of Demerol, put a gruesome face on doctors performing third-trimester abortions. Police, searching his office, found what prosecutors called "a house of horrors," bags and bottles of aborted fetuses scattered throughout the building, a place where fetuses were delivered live and then killed with scissors.

 

Even many supporters of abortion rights draw a line at third-trimester abortions. A 2011 Gallup poll showed that making abortion illegal in the last trimester got strong support from both pro-choice (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (94 percent). Laws passed in 41 states prohibit abortions, except to protect the woman's life, after a certain point in the pregnancy, usually fetal viability (about 24 weeks). In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester.

 

by on Jan. 21, 2013 at 8:32 AM
Replies (161-170):
ethans_momma06
by on Jan. 22, 2013 at 2:49 PM

I'm not negating that a womans right to abortion is currently upheld under her right to herself.

I'm simply saying that her right to end fetal life doesn't inherently fall under her right to her body, since expelling it from her uterus without killing it does the same thing.

I'm saying that (generally) it's not the actual pregnancy or carrying of the fetus (the right to her own body) that she has a problem with- rather it's the result after pregnancy ENDS.

Personally, I'm not trying to 'force more'. That human life was already created. It's already 'here'. It already has to be managed and 'dealt with'. I simply don't support in disposing of it by ending it. However, I'm a staunch supporter of a womans right to choose whether or not to get pregnant. I firmly support education, birthcontrol and the like to prevent more unwanted lives being created.


Quoting pansyprincess:

 Of course it is.  It's ALL about the right to her own body.  And if she doesn't want a pregnancy because it will kill her, she was raped, she is too young, she is too old, she is too poor or she is too tired, she should always have the right to decide what to do with her own body.

I have no issue at all with women chosing to abort because it is not the right time.  I just don't feel it is my choice to make.  Pregnancy is not an easy process.  I've done it twice, with twins both times.  No one should be forced to be a mom.  Full stop.  I just don't get how any women can think it's right to force another woman to do that.

There are enough babies in this world that aren't being taken care of ... why are we trying to force more?


Quoting ethans_momma06:

I feel that this totally highlights my point that abortion really isn't about a womans right to her own body- rather most abortions center around ending the fetal life because it's not the PREGNANCY that is (generally) the problem, but rather the outcome-

the baby.

Save for medical reasonings, I cannot support that. It does not surprise me that some do, that some dedicate their life to it- but I cannot.





pansyprincess
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 3:02 PM

 And while that is lovely in theory, there is no sure fire way to chose whether or not to get pregnant, other than abstinence.  And even that can be ignored by a rapist.  Birth control can fail.  But more importantly, we are humans, and we make mistakes.  A pregnancy can be a mistake.  I'm not going to force some 19 year old to be a mom, or carry a pregnancy and give a baby up for adoption.  There are tons of babies waiting to be adopted that aren't being.  So unless you are going to give birth to a healthy white baby, you don't know that child will be adopted.

I would 100% abort if I got pregnant now.  My doctor told me no more pregnancies.  And although I use BC, it could fail.  I am not risking my life, or my  kids not having a mom.  And I'm not willing to forgo sex for the rest of my existence. 

My body, my choice.  I don't want a baby, so I would have an abortion. 


Quoting ethans_momma06:

I'm not negating that a womans right to abortion is currently upheld under her right to herself.

I'm simply saying that her right to end fetal life doesn't inherently fall under her right to her body, since expelling it from her uterus without killing it does the same thing.

I'm saying that (generally) it's not the actual pregnancy or carrying of the fetus (the right to her own body) that she has a problem with- rather it's the result after pregnancy ENDS.

Personally, I'm not trying to 'force more'. That human life was already created. It's already 'here'. It already has to be managed and 'dealt with'. I simply don't support in disposing of it by ending it. However, I'm a staunch supporter of a womans right to choose whether or not to get pregnant. I firmly support education, birthcontrol and the like to prevent more unwanted lives being created.

 

Quoting pansyprincess:

 Of course it is.  It's ALL about the right to her own body.  And if she doesn't want a pregnancy because it will kill her, she was raped, she is too young, she is too old, she is too poor or she is too tired, she should always have the right to decide what to do with her own body.

I have no issue at all with women chosing to abort because it is not the right time.  I just don't feel it is my choice to make.  Pregnancy is not an easy process.  I've done it twice, with twins both times.  No one should be forced to be a mom.  Full stop.  I just don't get how any women can think it's right to force another woman to do that.

There are enough babies in this world that aren't being taken care of ... why are we trying to force more?

 

Quoting ethans_momma06:

I feel that this totally highlights my point that abortion really isn't about a womans right to her own body- rather most abortions center around ending the fetal life because it's not the PREGNANCY that is (generally) the problem, but rather the outcome-

the baby.

Save for medical reasonings, I cannot support that. It does not surprise me that some do, that some dedicate their life to it- but I cannot.

 

 

 

 


 

momto3B
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 3:14 PM

It is completely different. If that is the case, any woman with a history of miscarriage should never try to get pregnant again as she would be playing craps with every fetus she conceives. For exampley, I know a woman who had 9 miscarriages and I personally . I had 3 pre 12 week miscarriages. Should I have mourned everyone of those as though 1 of my children had died? They were largely anticipated, should I not have tried to become pregnant?


 


Quoting LoganTroyMom:

How is it any different than an 8 week developed baby? Is a woman only a little pregnant for the first few months? it's still in her body. her body her choice right?

abortion is wrong at any stage of development. to say otherwise is dehumanizing and hypocritical.

you said it yourself- to kill a baby is murder. a newly developing baby is no less a baby than one at 28 weeks. we are not- should not be, rather- a community that judges the right to live on how closely one reselmbles an "ideal" person.


Quoting radioheid:

 Once you reach the third trimester, you're carrying a baby. Period. And to kill a baby is murder. End of story. There is absolutely no excuse. These people are professional murderers.



ethans_momma06
by on Jan. 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM


Again, not negating the fact that you are able to obtain an abortion. Again- not forcing anyone to carry anything.

Again- not stipulating for medical reasons.

The fact is though, that while BC can 'fail' there are so many things that we could do (but don't) to further prevent it. Such as using it properly. Using multiple protection.

And if that BC does fail- expell it from your womb. I'm not negating your right to your own body. However, I do not believe that you should have the right to end it's life in any other way, aside from simply removing it from your body. I don't believe you should have the right to poison it. I don't believe that you should have the right to chop it into pieces, I don't believe you should have the right to chemically burn it, etc. etc.

Because none of those have anything to do with your right to your body, and are all about ending another life- that is not your own. And, I simply don't support those actions being taken on any human life- fetal, infant, or geriatric.

Quoting pansyprincess:

 And while that is lovely in theory, there is no sure fire way to chose whether or not to get pregnant, other than abstinence.  And even that can be ignored by a rapist.  Birth control can fail.  But more importantly, we are humans, and we make mistakes.  A pregnancy can be a mistake.  I'm not going to force some 19 year old to be a mom, or carry a pregnancy and give a baby up for adoption.  There are tons of babies waiting to be adopted that aren't being.  So unless you are going to give birth to a healthy white baby, you don't know that child will be adopted.

I would 100% abort if I got pregnant now.  My doctor told me no more pregnancies.  And although I use BC, it could fail.  I am not risking my life, or my  kids not having a mom.  And I'm not willing to forgo sex for the rest of my existence. 

My body, my choice.  I don't want a baby, so I would have an abortion. 


Quoting ethans_momma06:

I'm not negating that a womans right to abortion is currently upheld under her right to herself.

I'm simply saying that her right to end fetal life doesn't inherently fall under her right to her body, since expelling it from her uterus without killing it does the same thing.

I'm saying that (generally) it's not the actual pregnancy or carrying of the fetus (the right to her own body) that she has a problem with- rather it's the result after pregnancy ENDS.

Personally, I'm not trying to 'force more'. That human life was already created. It's already 'here'. It already has to be managed and 'dealt with'. I simply don't support in disposing of it by ending it. However, I'm a staunch supporter of a womans right to choose whether or not to get pregnant. I firmly support education, birthcontrol and the like to prevent more unwanted lives being created.


Quoting pansyprincess:

 Of course it is.  It's ALL about the right to her own body.  And if she doesn't want a pregnancy because it will kill her, she was raped, she is too young, she is too old, she is too poor or she is too tired, she should always have the right to decide what to do with her own body.

I have no issue at all with women chosing to abort because it is not the right time.  I just don't feel it is my choice to make.  Pregnancy is not an easy process.  I've done it twice, with twins both times.  No one should be forced to be a mom.  Full stop.  I just don't get how any women can think it's right to force another woman to do that.

There are enough babies in this world that aren't being taken care of ... why are we trying to force more?


Quoting ethans_momma06:

I feel that this totally highlights my point that abortion really isn't about a womans right to her own body- rather most abortions center around ending the fetal life because it's not the PREGNANCY that is (generally) the problem, but rather the outcome-

the baby.

Save for medical reasonings, I cannot support that. It does not surprise me that some do, that some dedicate their life to it- but I cannot.









LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Jan. 22, 2013 at 3:22 PM

 What if the c-section would kill the mother?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 This makes me sick.

And if its "deemed medically necessary" during the 3rd tri, deliver the baby by c-section and let it have a fighting chance to LIVE. What the fuck is wrong with people?!!!

Babies come out crying at that point, what kind of sick human being can cut the spine onf a crying preemie????!!!!! I think you have to be a sick human being to carry out abortion in general, but to do it to a kicking screaming, thoughtful fetus is FUCKING SICK.

 

LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Jan. 22, 2013 at 3:25 PM

 Why would it be assumed these doctors are not complying with every legal statute when they are under such extreme scrutiny?

Quoting cjsbmom:

 

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Third trimester abortions are illegal unless deemed medically necessary.  None of these articles seem to point that out.

 Which begs the question, are these doctors performing illegal abortions? I am pro choice, but I only believe in third trimester abortions if they are medically necessary.

 

Kelseyciarah
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM
1 mom liked this

 REALLY? ...

If a quick c-section would kill the mother, then the means it would take to "abort" the baby would be too much for the mother to handle, so your point is moot.

Quoting LauraKW:

 What if the c-section would kill the mother?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 This makes me sick.

And if its "deemed medically necessary" during the 3rd tri, deliver the baby by c-section and let it have a fighting chance to LIVE. What the fuck is wrong with people?!!!

Babies come out crying at that point, what kind of sick human being can cut the spine onf a crying preemie????!!!!! I think you have to be a sick human being to carry out abortion in general, but to do it to a kicking screaming, thoughtful fetus is FUCKING SICK.

 

 

LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Jan. 22, 2013 at 4:13 PM

 You understand that vaginal birth and a major surgical procedure are not the same thing, right?  RIGHT?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 REALLY? ...

If a quick c-section would kill the mother, then the means it would take to "abort" the baby would be too much for the mother to handle, so your point is moot.

Quoting LauraKW:

 What if the c-section would kill the mother?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 This makes me sick.

And if its "deemed medically necessary" during the 3rd tri, deliver the baby by c-section and let it have a fighting chance to LIVE. What the fuck is wrong with people?!!!

Babies come out crying at that point, what kind of sick human being can cut the spine onf a crying preemie????!!!!! I think you have to be a sick human being to carry out abortion in general, but to do it to a kicking screaming, thoughtful fetus is FUCKING SICK.

 

 

 

jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 4:19 PM

I will never cease to be amazed at the armchair physicians around here who don't bother to look this kind of thing up before talking about it.


Quoting LauraKW:

 You understand that vaginal birth and a major surgical procedure are not the same thing, right?  RIGHT?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 REALLY? ...

If a quick c-section would kill the mother, then the means it would take to "abort" the baby would be too much for the mother to handle, so your point is moot.

Quoting LauraKW:

 What if the c-section would kill the mother?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 This makes me sick.

And if its "deemed medically necessary" during the 3rd tri, deliver the baby by c-section and let it have a fighting chance to LIVE. What the fuck is wrong with people?!!!

Babies come out crying at that point, what kind of sick human being can cut the spine onf a crying preemie????!!!!! I think you have to be a sick human being to carry out abortion in general, but to do it to a kicking screaming, thoughtful fetus is FUCKING SICK.

 

 

 



Kelseyciarah
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2013 at 4:25 PM

 Of course!

But a vaginal birth would have to be FORCED which is traumatic on the body, maybe even moreso than a controlled c-section. I'm no doctor, but to "abort" the fetus that far along you would either need to induce labor, or dilate the cervix manually rip out the baby and contents of the uterus, pull through the vagina, etc etc etc.

If a simple c-section would kill a woman at that point, I highly doubt going through a partial birth 3rd tri abortion would have a different outcome.

Quoting LauraKW:

 You understand that vaginal birth and a major surgical procedure are not the same thing, right?  RIGHT?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 REALLY? ...

If a quick c-section would kill the mother, then the means it would take to "abort" the baby would be too much for the mother to handle, so your point is moot.

Quoting LauraKW:

 What if the c-section would kill the mother?

Quoting Kelseyciarah:

 This makes me sick.

And if its "deemed medically necessary" during the 3rd tri, deliver the baby by c-section and let it have a fighting chance to LIVE. What the fuck is wrong with people?!!!

Babies come out crying at that point, what kind of sick human being can cut the spine onf a crying preemie????!!!!! I think you have to be a sick human being to carry out abortion in general, but to do it to a kicking screaming, thoughtful fetus is FUCKING SICK.

 

 

 

 

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