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'The monster want out': Mentally ill killer amassed huge arsenal, police say

 

Police say they found Christian Oberender with 13 guns, despite the fact he couldn't legally purchase any.

By Matthew DeLuca, Staff Writer, NBC News

A Minnesota man who killed his mother with a shotgun and who has a history of mental illness managed to amass a personal arsenal in recent years, according to court documents.

In early January, police arrived at the home of Christian Philip Oberender to find the 32 year old in possession of 13 guns, including an AK-47, shotguns, and a Tommy gun, according to a complaint filed in Carver County's 1st Judicial District Court on January 9.

Police say they also found a note from Oberender addressed to his deceased mother in his house, according to the court document.

"I feel the good part of me fade away. I don't know how long I can hold it in for," the note read, according to the court document. "The monster want out. I know what happens when he comes out. He only been out one time and someone die."

Oberender had been adjudicated a delinquent in 1996 for killing his mother, according to the document. He was civilly committed as a "mentally ill and dangerous person" in 1998.

The Carver County Sheriff became interested in Oberender after receiving a tip that he had posted Facebook pictures of himself toting assault weapons and expressed sympathy for the shooters at Columbine High School and in Newtown, Conn., according to the document.

For one community leader, the move by police to seize Oberender's firearms came none too soon.

"The neighbors said they made numerous calls to the sheriff's department that a young man is out shooting a gun in the back yard," local school superintendent David Marlette told NBC affiliate KARE. "I just think it took too long for someone to come and take his guns away."

Oberender was charged with being a felon in possession of firearms, and booked into Carver County jail. He remained there Monday night with bail set at $100,000, according to a Carver County Jail inmate roster.

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, Oberender obtained a permit in May that allowed him to buy guns through Minnesota dealers.

Custer County Deputy Jason Kamerud told KAREthat Oberender might have been able to buy the guns himself. The convicted killer's name did not show up in a background check through the state's Bureau of Criminal Apprehension database, according to Kamerud.

"When we ran his criminal history, it wasn't indicated that he should not be able to have firearms," Kamerud said.

There was no record because the BCA was never given any information on Oberender, according to officials.

"The BCA relies on entities in the criminal justice system to provide data on an individual which then populates the individual's criminal history," BCA officials said in a statement, according to KARE-TV. "There were no data submitted to the BCA about this individual. Without it there can be no record."

Oberender lived in treatment centers until he was 21, according to a 2003 article by the Associated Press. He then spent a year in a halfway house before being released, according to the article. At the time of his interview with the AP, Oberender said he was working in an auto parts store.

"I saw all kinds of psychologists and got all kinds of treatment," Oberender told the AP. They helped him "manage my behavior and not get angry over stupid stuff," Oberender said at the time.

 

 

This debate stills goes on... Well for me it's more of a fact now... things need to change. We have guns in our house. I don't want/think the government should or will take our guns away, but it's obvious that the way we are handling gun rights and who gets them isn't working so great right now. I know criminals will always find away, this guy did the legal way. I just don't understand how he got them I know it didn't show up on his record or whatever but good lord I think that's a problem.

by on Jan. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Replies (51-60):
JoshRachelsMAMA
by JRM on Jan. 23, 2013 at 6:46 PM
As I've said before. Even criminals buy guns legally.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Jan. 23, 2013 at 6:48 PM

 

This does fit here too....it is definitely an avenue to consider when dealing with people who just go whacko and start shooting.:

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

Quoting Kokoscold:

 LOL it's ok I thought you had posted to the wrong thread........ I was starting to wonder :)

 

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Oops, sorry.  Wrong post.  I was thinking of Nehemiah Griego and posted in wrong location.

 

Quoting Kokoscold:

 Oberender had been adjudicated a delinquent in 1996 for killing his mother, according to the document. He was civilly committed as a "mentally ill and dangerous person" in 1998.

He didn't just snap.

 

Quoting TranquilMind:

 So you believe that he has a "history of mental illness", yet no pharmaceutical happy psychiatrist has treated him with anything?

Not buying it.  It is a logical conclusion. 

The point is PRECISELY that the ones who are doing this typically have a mental illness/drug background.  They are already announcing (ironically) that many ANTI-depressants can cause one to consider suicide...could it also make them consider murder.  This kid had NO background of any violence or juvenile history.  He just snapped. 

It's something to consider.  If it is not at issue here, then fine, but it does raise the issue. 

The GUNS don't kill anyone. Cars don't kill anyone.   Normal teens don't kill anyone.  

 

Quoting KreatingMe:

I didn't see psychiatric drugs mentioned anywhere in the article. Are you feeling OK? There are plenty of mentally ill people who are unstable and OR off psychiatric drugs. The point has nothing to do with drugs, rather it's that mentally unstable people shouldn't have access to guns. 

Quoting TranquilMind:

Um, hellooooo (to the writer of the article, not you).  So the problem here is psychiatric drugs, if he has a "history of mental illness".

The drugs are the problem, because they all have dangerous side effects.  Not the guns, any more than the cars are the problem when it comes to drunken driving. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Jan. 23, 2013 at 6:54 PM
Right?

Quoting kailu1835:

Maybe it was sarcasm? Sort of threw me for a loop too lol



Quoting Momniscient:

Sigh.

Quoting TranquilMind:

Um, hellooooo (to the writer of the article, not you).  So the problem here is psychiatric drugs, if he has a "history of mental illness".



The drugs are the problem, because they all have dangerous side effects.  Not the guns, any more than the cars are the problem when it comes to drunken driving. 


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
KreatingMe
by Bronze Member on Jan. 24, 2013 at 10:27 AM

You seem to be confused about the case but anyway if you want to repeat old cliches, fine. So guns don't kill people. So what, we still have to look at the options lock up all the mentally ill or decrease their availability to guns. Which is more feasible? 

Quoting TranquilMind:

 So you believe that he has a "history of mental illness", yet no pharmaceutical happy psychiatrist has treated him with anything?

Not buying it.  It is a logical conclusion. 

The point is PRECISELY that the ones who are doing this typically have a mental illness/drug background.  They are already announcing (ironically) that many ANTI-depressants can cause one to consider suicide...could it also make them consider murder.  This kid had NO background of any violence or juvenile history.  He just snapped. 

It's something to consider.  If it is not at issue here, then fine, but it does raise the issue. 

The GUNS don't kill anyone. Cars don't kill anyone.   Normal teens don't kill anyone.  


Quoting KreatingMe:

I didn't see psychiatric drugs mentioned anywhere in the article. Are you feeling OK? There are plenty of mentally ill people who are unstable and OR off psychiatric drugs. The point has nothing to do with drugs, rather it's that mentally unstable people shouldn't have access to guns. 

Quoting TranquilMind:

Um, hellooooo (to the writer of the article, not you).  So the problem here is psychiatric drugs, if he has a "history of mental illness".

The drugs are the problem, because they all have dangerous side effects.  Not the guns, any more than the cars are the problem when it comes to drunken driving. 





IntactivistMama
by on Jan. 24, 2013 at 10:31 AM
A TOMMY gun?! O.0
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
lancet98
by Silver Member on Jan. 24, 2013 at 10:31 AM
1 mom liked this

Very few states send in up to date information about mentally ill offenders.    The information only comes in from a couple states(12 I think), and is neither timely not accurate.

If we enforced existing laws, we wouldn't do so badly coping with this issue, but we aren't even enforcing existing laws.

Let's be clear, we do not have, and I have no interest in having, a database of all mentally ill people - that's ridiculous.   But I believe those who have been judged a danger to self or others or have a history of violent crime, need to be listed and not sod guns - and international vendors need to abide by our laws too.

But coupled with that, we have to realize that many people are 'falling through the cracks' - not getting diagnosed at all, so they can still have a violent episode when their illness worsens.   This is a very different area of concern, but that also needs to be addressed.

And it is NOT really about 'access to care' when a violent person who has had contact with mental health services and raised red flags, refuses to stay with treatment -  - it's an awful lot more about requiring really sick people who are deteriorating,to get care and stick with it (involuntary outpatient and involuntary inpatient care) - BEFORE they have a melt down.

And guess what?   Most state laws ALREADY state that a person can be required to get treatment, SIMPLY IF THEY ARE LIKELY TO DETERIORATE, OR EVEN, SIMPLY IF THEY WOULD BENEFIT FROM TREATMENT.

We have a lot of good laws - but when it comes down to it, we ignore them.

 

lancet98
by Silver Member on Jan. 24, 2013 at 8:11 PM

 

 

The problem with the mass shooters, say, 8/9 being mentally ill, was NOT that they were ON psychiatric meds, it was that they were NOT on psychiatric meds.

In general, we have a serious problem with severely mentally ill people(talking things like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia) NOT being diagnosed at all or not getting a new diagnosis when their illness becomes obvious, NOT being on appropriate medication, NOT staying with appropriate medication.

MANY mentally ill people  do not get diagnosed accurately.   But it isn't quite as simple as 'someone made a mistake'.   Sure, they may never even get to a psychiatrist, or they may not go back.

But.... Either bipolar or schizophrenia MAY start with only depression - if someone isn't there to see what's really going on over a period of months (or even years), no one may even see that it isn't just depression any more.  And an antidepressant by itself, could aggravate bipolar or schizophrenia.  

Often, after an initial consult with a psychiatrist (or in a few states, a psychologist), a person presenting with depression gets a prescription for an antidepressant, but when their illness actually takes shape and is obviously schizophrenia or bipolar, what they used to take is no longer appropriate.   But their GP may continue to renew the prescription.

 And many people won't fully decribe their symptoms.   They say they are 'depressed' because that's about the only even slightly socially acceptable illness out there.   So they may be on the wrong medication, for not so simple reasons.

Most of the ppl I've dealt with who were mentally ill and committed a criminal act, were people who, after a CORRECT diagnosis, and CORRECT prescription, refused treatment and deteriorated.

I met one guy who had been extremely depressed for about eight years, but his illness abruptly changed from depression to schizophrenia.   At that point, he did not tell the doctor about any of his psychotic symptoms.   He only told the doctor he had depression.   So his prescriptions weren't right.

But by far, the most common problem with the severely ill violent offender is that he or she is not on ANY medication, has refused ANY treatment, and is deteriorating to a very dangerous level, and refusing any care.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 

This does fit here too....it is definitely an avenue to consider when dealing with people who just go whacko and start shooting.:

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

lancet98
by Silver Member on Jan. 24, 2013 at 8:46 PM

 


Quoting KreatingMe:

You seem to be confused about the case but anyway if you want to repeat old cliches, fine. So guns don't kill people. So what, we still have to look at the options lock up all the mentally ill or decrease their availability to guns. Which is more feasible? 

Locking up everyone who is mentally ill is a ridiculous idea and no one is ever going to want to pay for such an unnecessary thing.   We have laws that restrict access of persons at risk (NOT all mentally ill people, but those found to be a threat/danger), we just don't happen to be following them.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 So you believe that he has a "history of mental illness", yet no pharmaceutical happy psychiatrist has treated him with anything?

You obviously have never worked with a psychiatrist.   Maybe you should.   They're generally very NOT pharmeceutical happy.   They want to see people for months before prescribing anything, and they want test results, consult with a social worker, family members.   In fact, switching psychiatrists can be quite a nightmare because most of them say, hold on here, let's be sure of what we're dealing with. 

A patient I work with just went to a psychiatrist.   It took many appointments before the psychiatrist was comfortable prescribing ANYTHING.  And before she would, she wanted an extremely complete medical history, a sleep study, several meetings with family and social worker, discussion with the guy's MD - it was actually very HARD to get any medication for the patient.   Let's be sure of what we're dealing with here, before we prescribe ANYTHING - I can't count how many times I have heard that over the last 40 yrs.  Even then, it was started on a VERY low dose and the guy has to go in once a week to meet with the psychiatrist's nurse to be evaluated as to how the medication is working.

Not buying it.  It is a logical conclusion. 

The point is PRECISELY that the ones who are doing this typically have a mental illness/drug background.  They are already announcing (ironically) that many ANTI-depressants can cause one to consider suicide...could it also make them consider murder.  This kid had NO background of any violence or juvenile history.  He just snapped. 

You have absolutely ZERO comprehension as to how such medications work, what they do, or what  can go wrong.   You're saying a drug 'could also make them consider murder'.   This is bull.   You just made it up.

For one thing, antidepressants may be prescribed when that isn't what the person needs.   What they do need might not be obvious- they might not report all their symptoms (for numerous reasons).

For another, even if someone is depressed, they may ALSO be psychotic(depression, bipolar, schizophrenia - any of these can have psychotic symptoms).   Taking ONLY or JUST an antidepressant may be a bad idea for someone with psychotic symptoms.  It could make symptoms worse.

Further, antidepressants can take months to take full effect.   There can be a period there, waiting for the antidepressant to take effect, when a person may get discouraged and suicidal. 

Even more, all antidepressants don't work on all depression.   The person may actually have to try one, and then try another.  During that time, he might be QUITE vulnerable to getting discouraged, even suicidal.

It's something to consider.  If it is not at issue here, then fine, but it does raise the issue. 

The issue comes up, but only on the internet bb's, where people keep claiming over and over that this is the problem when it isn't.

The GUNS don't kill anyone. Cars don't kill anyone.   Normal teens don't kill anyone.  

 

Quoting KreatingMe:

I didn't see psychiatric drugs mentioned anywhere in the article. Are you feeling OK? There are plenty of mentally ill people who are unstable and OR off psychiatric drugs. The point has nothing to do with drugs, rather it's that mentally unstable people shouldn't have access to guns. 

Medications are an issue because so many severely mentally ill people aren't taking the medications they need.

Quoting TranquilMind:

Um, hellooooo (to the writer of the article, not you).  So the problem here is psychiatric drugs, if he has a "history of mental illness".

Total bull.

The drugs are the problem, because they all have dangerous side effects.  Not the guns, any more than the cars are the problem when it comes to drunken driving

Total bull.  All the mentally ill mass shooters in recent cases, were NOT TAKING MEDICATIONS THEY NEEDED.  

The most horrible of all was the VA Tech shooter, judged a danger to self and others, the psychiatrist BEGGED the hospital to not discharge him and they went ahead and did it anyway.   The investigative report on all the many things that were done wrong, over and over, for years, not weeks or months, in his case - you should read it.   And stop beating your chest about what 'could be' and learn what IS.


 

 



 

TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Jan. 24, 2013 at 11:21 PM

 

Source for this assertion? 

Quoting lancet98:

 

 

But by far, the most common problem with the severely ill violent offender is that he or she is not on ANY medication, has refused ANY treatment, and is deteriorating to a very dangerous level, and refusing any care.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 

This does fit here too....it is definitely an avenue to consider when dealing with people who just go whacko and start shooting.:

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/


 

lancet98
by Silver Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 8:49 AM

 Research, thousands of studies I've read over the last 40 years on mental illness and violence and medications and how they work, university courses in biology, chemistry, genetics, psychology, anatomy and neurological development, research from the Treatment Advocacy Center, lots of experience over many decades, and the documentation of what REALLY happened with the mass shooters like the VA tech shooter(I'll bet you any amount of cash you didn't read that report from cover to cover), instead of guesses, innuendos and anti-treatment agendas.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 

Source for this assertion? 

Quoting lancet98:

 

 

But by far, the most common problem with the severely ill violent offender is that he or she is not on ANY medication, has refused ANY treatment, and is deteriorating to a very dangerous level, and refusing any care.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 

This does fit here too....it is definitely an avenue to consider when dealing with people who just go whacko and start shooting.:

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

 

 

 

 

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