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The Murders of Teen's family by, Nehemiah Griego the son, in NM. What do you think our Courts should do with him?

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This is another one of those cases, that really has me asking myself, a lot of questions.  I was wondering what others thought about this case.  Was it Mental Illness?  What do we do with all these young kids that kill, mostly kill their families?  Should they be tried as an adult?  Here's some of the things that I just don't understand.

1.  The Uncle says the parents wouldn't allow him to play any violent video games.  Yet, I don't think that is the case or that parents are very careful these days with what movies they watch, video games they play.  As matter of fact, if I happen to be seeing a rated R movie, I see A LOT of young kids in there.  Sad.  Do you feel kids watching or playing violent movies or video games, can contribute to kids & violence?

2.  The teen planned on going to Wal-Mart to open fire on shoppers & have a shoot-out with the police.  What possesses anyone, yet alone a child to do this?  He's dad is a Pastor, the teen was home-schooled & very active in Church.  What happen to this teen?  I just don't understand this.  How can he kill his parents, & especially kill his siblings like that?

3.  The Uncle says that they believe differently about guns then a lot of Americans.  Since, the father was gone a lot, he taught his 15 yr how to shot a gun.  There were a lot of weapons, loaded inside the house & NOT locked up.  Why?  WHY would anyone do that?  The dad even had a AR-15 Assault Rifle.  umm  People that knew this teen said he was quite & courteous. 

4.  I'm not sure if this boy should be tried as an adult.  Be put into the system with other 'adult' criminals.  But, with what this teen did, how can he ever be safe in society again?  I don't feel he should be in the prison system.  He should be locked away & be given a chance to have all the resources available.  But, I don't believe he should be out anytime soon.  What do you think? 

Why do you think we are having SO many of our young people doing such horrible crimes?  What do you think we as a society can do to help with this problem?  I know No. 1 PARENTS need to start being better parents. 

by on Jan. 24, 2013 at 1:40 PM
Replies (51-60):
MaySheWillStay
by on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:36 PM

He has 5 older siblings who weren't home at the time.  I've seen 10 quoted in numerous articles, not sure whether the 9th (not including the shooter) has been explained or not. Apparently there were either 4 or 5 kids still at home, and 5 older ones who weren't involved, so either there was 4 at home and 6 not at home, or 5 at home and one is still unaccounted for. Or maybe was deceased or out of the family already, from some unrelated event?

The father is apparently an ex gang member who had some sort of miraculous religious conversion, that right there is a red flag to me. Even if he wasn't a former gang member, sudden religious conversions are rarely a sign of mental stability. That he then went on to lead a church as a pastor and had 10 kids makes me wonder. It sounds like he was trying to build himself a cult.


The nearest city to them is Albuquerque, but evidently they lived quite a ways out. Anyone who's spent time around there knows how quickly you can get into no-mans-land once you're out of the suburbs. It's very easy to find seemingly isolated places not 15 minutes' drive outside the city center.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 

 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 


Quoting DawnPratt23:

I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  

New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 


The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 

Quoting survivorinohio:

Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.

Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.

We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.



Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.

10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.

If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.


I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.

Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.






"There is something undeveloped about parents who demand respect. Obviously, they have failed to inspire love in their children, and so they demand an inferior substitute. Parents who are really fair and square with their children do not require repsect. If you want to be respected by your child, act in such a manner that the respect comes naturally - which means deservedly - and not because your child fears reprisal." - A.S. Neill

Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:40 PM

I have a friend that is from the Alburq. area.  She has sent me pics., & she lives on 2 1/2 acres or so.  So, I believe it is semi-rural in the area around Alburq.  I've been through NM quite a bit of times.  Although, not in love with the State, there is some areas (rural) that I do like.  Thanks so much for all that info.  Wow, I didn't know!  But, how ANYONE now days can leave guns in the house, unlocked.  My husband & I have a couple.  Others are air-guns. 

 With the guns there always were locks on them, plus locked away in a cabinet.  I don't care if it's a rural area or not.  I'm shocked to even hear any parents having them around, for their kids to get into.  Even having them behind a cabinet.  Older kids can somehow break-in & get them.  That's why locks on the trigger are SO important. 


Quoting DawnPratt23:

https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?ll=33.916747,-105.33388&spn=0.011058,0.026157&ctz=420&t=h&z=16

 

This is the natural gas pipeline my father was assigned at, along with 4 other families. He was an Engineer, and worked for Transwestern, later it was Enron, now it is runned by Keystone. There isn't a little town for about an hour in any direction. Ranchers, and wide open spaces. We get a lot of German troops from Holloman AFB who will dump their pets off in the area when they go back to Germany. Actually wild packs of dogs and drug cartel are the two main concerns in NM, more so in the southern part of the state than Albuquerque. When you come across a pack of 30+ wild dogs, you want the best weapon you can have. 7 bullets aren't going to scare a large pack of wild hungry dogs and the nearest law enforcement might take a couple hours to reach you. New Mexico is barely a 100 years old as a state, and very rich in Hispanic/Native American Culture. We have our issues, but overall it still is a beautiful state. It has the annual International Balloon Festival, Smokey the Bear, Billy the Kid and so many cultural festivals. 

Balloons in Alamogordo.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 

 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 

 

Quoting DawnPratt23:

I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  

New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 

 

The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 

Quoting survivorinohio:

Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.

Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.

We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.



Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.

10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.

If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.

 

I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.

Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.



 

 



 

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:42 PM


Quoting Naturewoman4:

I agree.  Point is we just don't know.  I don't think anyone is assuming, although it may sound like that.  For me, I just pointed out things that were reported about the father.  Not to say that he's was a bad man or father.  I just found it very distrubing when the Uncle spoke about how in their culture or family, they think differently as far as guns.  They feel the oldest should protect the family, yet not the adult the mom?  Plus, the father thought it was ok just leaving the guns around loaded, plus having an assult weapon.  I'm sorry AtoZ, that is VERY distrubing to me.  

Plus, reading where the father might of had a 'half-way' house for troubled or (gangs) on his property.  That's bad, when he has 4 kids of his own.  I just feel that parents imo just aren't being that responsible with their kids.  Just like what happen in Conn., where the mom had all these guns.  She also knew from what I read, that her son had some issues.  Perhaps, even mental issues.  Makes me wonder, had these guns not of been so available to this young teen, if he would of done what he did?  At least not that easily.  I'm not blaming the parents.  Just thinking about the whole situation as a whole.  We will find out more soon I'm sure. 


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Yeah well, don't you believe that this is what CM & debating is all about?  Don't you feel that in order to cover everything that could be a possibility, should be explored?  I certainly wouldn't want to see any movie made of this horrible crime. 


Quoting FromAtoZ:

The speculation, from some, in this thread would make a hell of a movie. The imaginations are running rampant.




What I meant was............the assumption that there had to be more going on within the family, the property, based on what............that the father was a former gang member who turned his life around?  Or the way the mother dressed or some other absurd assumption?   The latter is an example.  

My niece attends the same Church this man was involved in.  She knew the children and several women had spent time with the mother.  Now, I am not saying there was NOT something out of the ordinary happening, it is speculated, after all, that the kid had issues with his mother.  But to sit here and come up with scenarios that are strictly made up should be some what concerning.

We can discuss it, of course.  But from a few, I have not read all of your posts in this thread.........they are talking absolutes in why this happened, what is wrong with the family, etc. 

It seems obvious there was/is something terribly wrong with this kid.  The why, how and what for may never be determined.  So sure, I guess some have fun speculating, but when you present that speculation in a manner that says you believe it to be fact, that is worrisome.




We don't know if this half way house had any thing to do with it.  Possible, of course.  I know that the dad was trying to help others.  *shrug*  Maybe he did put others before his family, I don't know.

the difference between this situation and the Newtown shootings, the individual showed signs of mental illness and, for what ever reasoning, the mother did not remove the weapons in all ways.

My great nephew is in a mental institution for teens.  Finally!  Years of trying to get him help, my niece finally was able to get him the help he has needed for years.  She and her husband own multiple weapons.  However, they remained out of the house, no where near him.  they did not trust him and they took no chances.  Thank goodness. 

It seems as if this young man showed no signs of any thing that would lead one to think he could be capable of what he did.  That is scary. 

The father was quite active in the community and the Uncle who is speaking out was not as close to the family as he is leading people to believe.  We just don't know.

Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:45 PM

I didn't know he had older siblings.  I just heard that he shot his mom in the head first.  Then, showed her face to his 9 yr. brother & shot him.  Went into another room, the 5 yr. old & 2 yr. little girl was in there crying.  He then shot them.  Waited till 5pm or so, then shot his dad in the back. 

 I wonder why in the world would ANY family would have 10 kids!  Let alone 4, these days.  How would anyone be able to afford them, unless you're rich.  It may be wrong, but I really question the father.  Not to take blame away from the teen.  But, I can't get some facts out of my head in regards to the dad.   


Quoting MaySheWillStay:

He has 5 older siblings who weren't home at the time.  I've seen 10 quoted in numerous articles, not sure whether the 9th (not including the shooter) has been explained or not. Apparently there were either 4 or 5 kids still at home, and 5 older ones who weren't involved, so either there was 4 at home and 6 not at home, or 5 at home and one is still unaccounted for. Or maybe was deceased or out of the family already, from some unrelated event?

The father is apparently an ex gang member who had some sort of miraculous religious conversion, that right there is a red flag to me. Even if he wasn't a former gang member, sudden religious conversions are rarely a sign of mental stability. That he then went on to lead a church as a pastor and had 10 kids makes me wonder. It sounds like he was trying to build himself a cult.

 

The nearest city to them is Albuquerque, but evidently they lived quite a ways out. Anyone who's spent time around there knows how quickly you can get into no-mans-land once you're out of the suburbs. It's very easy to find seemingly isolated places not 15 minutes' drive outside the city center.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 

 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 

 

Quoting DawnPratt23:

I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  

New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 

 

The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 

Quoting survivorinohio:

Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.

Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.

We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.



Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.

10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.

If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.

 

I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.

Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.



 

 



 

DawnPratt23
by on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:51 PM
I have yet seen any local news say there were 10 children. And southwest valley is not rural like Edgewood, its a 10 min drive to downtown albuquerque, 15 mins to base, and 15 to los lunas. But I'm basing my info from local reports and people who knows the family. Not a national paper who wants to sensationalize every gun crime for ratings. I'll keep referring people to local news. And I do know NM and the area very well.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

He has 5 older siblings who weren't home at the time.  I've seen 10 quoted in numerous articles, not sure whether the 9th (not including the shooter) has been explained or not. Apparently there were either 4 or 5 kids still at home, and 5 older ones who weren't involved, so either there was 4 at home and 6 not at home, or 5 at home and one is still unaccounted for. Or maybe was deceased or out of the family already, from some unrelated event?

The father is apparently an ex gang member who had some sort of miraculous religious conversion, that right there is a red flag to me. Even if he wasn't a former gang member, sudden religious conversions are rarely a sign of mental stability. That he then went on to lead a church as a pastor and had 10 kids makes me wonder. It sounds like he was trying to build himself a cult.


The nearest city to them is Albuquerque, but evidently they lived quite a ways out. Anyone who's spent time around there knows how quickly you can get into no-mans-land once you're out of the suburbs. It's very easy to find seemingly isolated places not 15 minutes' drive outside the city center.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 


 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 




Quoting DawnPratt23:


I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  


New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 




The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 


Quoting survivorinohio:


Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.


Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.


We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.






Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.


Quoting MaySheWillStay:


I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.


10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.


If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.




I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.


Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.










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FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jan. 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM


Quoting DawnPratt23:

I have yet seen any local news say there were 10 children. And southwest valley is not rural like Edgewood, its a 10 min drive to downtown albuquerque, 15 mins to base, and 15 to los lunas. But I'm basing my info from local reports and people who knows the family. Not a national paper who wants to sensationalize every gun crime for ratings. I'll keep referring people to local news. And I do know NM and the area very well.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

He has 5 older siblings who weren't home at the time.  I've seen 10 quoted in numerous articles, not sure whether the 9th (not including the shooter) has been explained or not. Apparently there were either 4 or 5 kids still at home, and 5 older ones who weren't involved, so either there was 4 at home and 6 not at home, or 5 at home and one is still unaccounted for. Or maybe was deceased or out of the family already, from some unrelated event?

The father is apparently an ex gang member who had some sort of miraculous religious conversion, that right there is a red flag to me. Even if he wasn't a former gang member, sudden religious conversions are rarely a sign of mental stability. That he then went on to lead a church as a pastor and had 10 kids makes me wonder. It sounds like he was trying to build himself a cult.


The nearest city to them is Albuquerque, but evidently they lived quite a ways out. Anyone who's spent time around there knows how quickly you can get into no-mans-land once you're out of the suburbs. It's very easy to find seemingly isolated places not 15 minutes' drive outside the city center.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 


 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 




Quoting DawnPratt23:


I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  


New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 




The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 


Quoting survivorinohio:


Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.


Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.


We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.






Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.


Quoting MaySheWillStay:


I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.


10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.


If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.




I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.


Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.










My niece, who lives there and knows the family, although she knew mom longer, has not mentioned 10 children.  Or that she has heard there are 10 children.  Who knows.

Have you heard that the Uncle may not have been as knowing and close to the family as he is letting on...........or how the media is spinning it?


Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Yes, I agree the two cases aren't the same at all.  My point I was trying to make is parents need to be responsible for when they have guns in their house.  That's good to hear that a teen/young person, would finally get the help they are needed.  I credit the parents for that, because they were presistant in seeing to it. 

 So, it appears that there's places for young kids that are diagnosed with a true Mental Illness.  Instead of being tried as an adult & putting them away in prison all their lives.  Or letting them out too early & they commit more crimes.                                                                                                   


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Naturewoman4:

I agree.  Point is we just don't know.  I don't think anyone is assuming, although it may sound like that.  For me, I just pointed out things that were reported about the father.  Not to say that he's was a bad man or father.  I just found it very distrubing when the Uncle spoke about how in their culture or family, they think differently as far as guns.  They feel the oldest should protect the family, yet not the adult the mom?  Plus, the father thought it was ok just leaving the guns around loaded, plus having an assult weapon.  I'm sorry AtoZ, that is VERY distrubing to me.  

Plus, reading where the father might of had a 'half-way' house for troubled or (gangs) on his property.  That's bad, when he has 4 kids of his own.  I just feel that parents imo just aren't being that responsible with their kids.  Just like what happen in Conn., where the mom had all these guns.  She also knew from what I read, that her son had some issues.  Perhaps, even mental issues.  Makes me wonder, had these guns not of been so available to this young teen, if he would of done what he did?  At least not that easily.  I'm not blaming the parents.  Just thinking about the whole situation as a whole.  We will find out more soon I'm sure. 

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Yeah well, don't you believe that this is what CM & debating is all about?  Don't you feel that in order to cover everything that could be a possibility, should be explored?  I certainly wouldn't want to see any movie made of this horrible crime. 

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:

The speculation, from some, in this thread would make a hell of a movie. The imaginations are running rampant.

 

 

 

What I meant was............the assumption that there had to be more going on within the family, the property, based on what............that the father was a former gang member who turned his life around?  Or the way the mother dressed or some other absurd assumption?   The latter is an example.  

My niece attends the same Church this man was involved in.  She knew the children and several women had spent time with the mother.  Now, I am not saying there was NOT something out of the ordinary happening, it is speculated, after all, that the kid had issues with his mother.  But to sit here and come up with scenarios that are strictly made up should be some what concerning.

We can discuss it, of course.  But from a few, I have not read all of your posts in this thread.........they are talking absolutes in why this happened, what is wrong with the family, etc. 

It seems obvious there was/is something terribly wrong with this kid.  The why, how and what for may never be determined.  So sure, I guess some have fun speculating, but when you present that speculation in a manner that says you believe it to be fact, that is worrisome.


 

 

We don't know if this half way house had any thing to do with it.  Possible, of course.  I know that the dad was trying to help others.  *shrug*  Maybe he did put others before his family, I don't know.

the difference between this situation and the Newtown shootings, the individual showed signs of mental illness and, for what ever reasoning, the mother did not remove the weapons in all ways.

My great nephew is in a mental institution for teens.  Finally!  Years of trying to get him help, my niece finally was able to get him the help he has needed for years.  She and her husband own multiple weapons.  However, they remained out of the house, no where near him.  they did not trust him and they took no chances.  Thank goodness. 

It seems as if this young man showed no signs of any thing that would lead one to think he could be capable of what he did.  That is scary. 

The father was quite active in the community and the Uncle who is speaking out was not as close to the family as he is leading people to believe.  We just don't know.


 

DawnPratt23
by on Jan. 25, 2013 at 5:08 PM

There are a lot of open spaces around Albuquerque that to some would seem open and rural, until you hit abosuletly nothing for hours. My in laws came out for a visit from CT and took 4 hours to drive from Albuquerque to our house in Alamogordo. 4 hours of nothing but open spaces and a few old small towns. 

The guns we have are in BioMetric safes, only our finger prints can open them. Those are the best I've seen. But I do know a lot of people who still have them in their closets. When my Grandma and Great Aunt passed, we found a rifle in both their closets, no one knew they even owned them. 

Here is the Google map of Greg Greigo's home, it is on the outer part of Albuquerque. 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2806+Long+Lane+Southwest,+Albuquerque,+NM&hl=en&ll=34.976775,-106.717029&spn=0.010918,0.026157&sll=34.977514,-106.71454&sspn=0.021977,0.052314&oq=2806+Long+Lane+Albu&t=h&hnear=2806+Long+Ln+SW,+Albuquerque,+Bernalillo,+New+Mexico+87105&z=16

Quoting Naturewoman4:

I have a friend that is from the Alburq. area.  She has sent me pics., & she lives on 2 1/2 acres or so.  So, I believe it is semi-rural in the area around Alburq.  I've been through NM quite a bit of times.  Although, not in love with the State, there is some areas (rural) that I do like.  Thanks so much for all that info.  Wow, I didn't know!  But, how ANYONE now days can leave guns in the house, unlocked.  My husband & I have a couple.  Others are air-guns. 

 With the guns there always were locks on them, plus locked away in a cabinet.  I don't care if it's a rural area or not.  I'm shocked to even hear any parents having them around, for their kids to get into.  Even having them behind a cabinet.  Older kids can somehow break-in & get them.  That's why locks on the trigger are SO important. 


Quoting DawnPratt23:

https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?ll=33.916747,-105.33388&spn=0.011058,0.026157&ctz=420&t=h&z=16


This is the natural gas pipeline my father was assigned at, along with 4 other families. He was an Engineer, and worked for Transwestern, later it was Enron, now it is runned by Keystone. There isn't a little town for about an hour in any direction. Ranchers, and wide open spaces. We get a lot of German troops from Holloman AFB who will dump their pets off in the area when they go back to Germany. Actually wild packs of dogs and drug cartel are the two main concerns in NM, more so in the southern part of the state than Albuquerque. When you come across a pack of 30+ wild dogs, you want the best weapon you can have. 7 bullets aren't going to scare a large pack of wild hungry dogs and the nearest law enforcement might take a couple hours to reach you. New Mexico is barely a 100 years old as a state, and very rich in Hispanic/Native American Culture. We have our issues, but overall it still is a beautiful state. It has the annual International Balloon Festival, Smokey the Bear, Billy the Kid and so many cultural festivals. 

Balloons in Alamogordo.


FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jan. 25, 2013 at 5:09 PM


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Yes, I agree the two cases aren't the same at all.  My point I was trying to make is parents need to be responsible for when they have guns in their house.  That's good to hear that a teen/young person, would finally get the help they are needed.  I credit the parents for that, because they were presistant in seeing to it. 

 So, it appears that there's places for young kids that are diagnosed with a true Mental Illness.  Instead of being tried as an adult & putting them away in prison all their lives.  Or letting them out too early & they commit more crimes.                                                                                                   


Quoting FromAtoZ:




He has not been diagnosed with a true mental illness.  For years his mother has tried to have some one recognize his issues.  I see a mental illness, his mother has...always.  It took his living on a military base, causing issues in school there and setting a cat's paws on fire, as well as stealing from the BX, for some one to pay attention.  Years of fighting, however, with the insurance to recognize the issues as well.

I have no problem with this kid being tried as an adult.  Mental illness or not. 

Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Jan. 25, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Idk for me, I was watching Dr. Drew.  HLN had their reporters reporting first.  They said their info. came from the police.  Then, the Uncle came on & said that they weren't going to do any interviews quite yet.  But, they decided he would because they said the Media is report false info.  False info., that the mom & teen had an argument.  False info., that they knew that the boy played violent video games.  Although, the police interviewed the teen & the teen got excited to tell them about those games. 

 One I believe is called "Grand Thief Auto", where in the video they were shooting up at a Wal-Mart.  That's what this teen wanted to do after the shootings.  He loaded up a gun/guns & drove away.  He changed his mind & went to the church.   


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting DawnPratt23:

I have yet seen any local news say there were 10 children. And southwest valley is not rural like Edgewood, its a 10 min drive to downtown albuquerque, 15 mins to base, and 15 to los lunas. But I'm basing my info from local reports and people who knows the family. Not a national paper who wants to sensationalize every gun crime for ratings. I'll keep referring people to local news. And I do know NM and the area very well.

Quoting MaySheWillStay:

He has 5 older siblings who weren't home at the time.  I've seen 10 quoted in numerous articles, not sure whether the 9th (not including the shooter) has been explained or not. Apparently there were either 4 or 5 kids still at home, and 5 older ones who weren't involved, so either there was 4 at home and 6 not at home, or 5 at home and one is still unaccounted for. Or maybe was deceased or out of the family already, from some unrelated event?

The father is apparently an ex gang member who had some sort of miraculous religious conversion, that right there is a red flag to me. Even if he wasn't a former gang member, sudden religious conversions are rarely a sign of mental stability. That he then went on to lead a church as a pastor and had 10 kids makes me wonder. It sounds like he was trying to build himself a cult.

 

The nearest city to them is Albuquerque, but evidently they lived quite a ways out. Anyone who's spent time around there knows how quickly you can get into no-mans-land once you're out of the suburbs. It's very easy to find seemingly isolated places not 15 minutes' drive outside the city center.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

The family had 4 kids, includes the teen.  I believe Nehemiah 15, a 9, 5 & 2 yr.  The 2 yr. was a little girl :(  I heard also that where they lived was semi-rural.  I was curious as to their names as well.  I agree too, that having all those guns in the home, LOADED &  not locked up was a killing waiting to happen.  Also, there was an assault weapon.  I don't undestand why the father would have all those guns. 


 The Uncle even said, they do things different when it comes to comes to guns??  They have the oldest child defend the family, when the father is gone??  Therefore, not having them locked up & having them loaded??  Crazy.  I wonder what the gun laws are in NM.  How did the father able to get all those guns?  I will never know how ANYONE can be allowed an assult weapon.  Especially, since the father was an ex-gang member. 


 


Quoting DawnPratt23:


I had always known that name to be of Hispanic origin, since it is a popular name in NM and Mexico. Was most likely brought over by Cortes long ago, and considering the strong Catholic background of the area, not shocking that it would be Hebrew. The actual pronunciation is Nehemias.  


New Mexico is far from Fundies, nor is that area rural. I was only trying to enlighten her to facts, and how far off the profiling was. Since I am from there and still have strong ties to the area. Wasn't sure were she got 10 kids, and rural area? Now if she was talking about Colorado City, AZ- yes, she would be right on. 


 


The first mistake was allowing a former gang member guns, second mistake was having guns on a property that has a halfway house on it. 


Quoting survivorinohio:


Nehemiah is a hebrew name.  Many fundies are into guns and naming their kids hebrew names.


Much of what she said is good profiling IMO.  Its hypothesis and opinion, not fact or assumption. At least thats how I read it.  I was thinking a lot of the same having been raised by a similar fashion, all the fear and harsh punishment I mean.


We will see if it pans out to be this or not.  Something definitely went wrong somewhere.






Quoting DawnPratt23:

What??? Really where do you get your info? There were 4 kids, Albuquerque is not a rural area, the names are Hispanic, he was a former gang member turned pastor for the police. And the guns were in the closet. Read the link I posted on the other page, from the City it happened in. I'm from there, and laughing at what you assume.


Quoting MaySheWillStay:


I can't pass judgement on what should happen to him until I know the whole story. The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that something very, very weird was going on in that family.


10 kids, pastor daddy, lot of the kids had crazy names that are only really heard amongst fundamentalists, kids were homeschooled, rural area, guns everywhere... they sound less the loving family and more the lunatic fringe.


If they are indeed fundie as I suspect they are, their child-raising methods probably include a lot of heavy-handed bible-thumping, corporal punishment and fear of the parents, lots of fear in general, lots of paranoia about government/outsiders/culture wars/persecution, among other gems this culture produces. Naturally not all fundamentalists are like this, but a good majority of them are, particularly the isolationist kinds.


 


I find it interesting he killed the siblings (those that were there at the time). It's so uncommon for youth to murder siblings. The motivations for killing parents and the motivations for killing siblings are usually completely different. Especially with such young siblings. I've read bits and pieces on it over the years, from what I remember, youth who murder parents usually do so out of rage, revenge or personal gain. Youth who murder siblings, especially child siblings, tend to do so in a twisted kind of mercy killing, to spare them from harm or further trauma.


Of course he could just have been completely insane or an "evil" person... but I think that's an all-too-easy answer we get and buy into all too often, because it's more comfortable to think of someone as insane or evil than to consider the possibility that good, relatively normal people can be driven to such extremes absent insanity or evil, by the conditions around them.






 


 


My niece, who lives there and knows the family, although she knew mom longer, has not mentioned 10 children.  Or that she has heard there are 10 children.  Who knows.

Have you heard that the Uncle may not have been as knowing and close to the family as he is letting on...........or how the media is spinning it?



 

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