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Pro-life women should pray that abortion remains legal. Instead of being a hero for choosing life women will be called sluts if abortion is outlawed.

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Pro-life women should pray that abortion remains legal. If you have an out of wedlock birth today you are a hero for "choosing life" but if abortion is outlawed it is again the 1950s and you have turned into "a slut."

Recently there has been discussion about "the continuing rise in out-of-wedlock birth rates [being] an unintended consequence of the pro-life movement’s modest success at stigmatizing abortion."

We discussed that here in this thread:

Does Abortion Lead to More Stable Marriages? Did the Pro-Life Movement Lead to More Single Moms? A legacy conservatives have not grappled with.

What I would like to discuss now is this comment which was made in response to the following article in the New York Times:

The Bristol Palin Effect vs. The Roe Effect

Every single mother in the red states should pray that abortion remains legal. Right now, you are a hero who has "chosen life." the minute the right is able to outlaw abortion, you are back in the 1950s where I grew up and you have turned into "a slut" and that innocent baby the anti-abortion now defies becomes your "little bastard, " excluded from any decent home. No one had any problem treating an unwed mother and her child like dirt in the 1950s. This attitude will quickly return, as all the right wing comments indicate it is only shallowly submerged. As for the idea male irresponsibility is encouraged by the availability of abortion, my grandmother always warned me in the 1950s,"a boy can go home and put on a clean shirt and be welcomed into everyone's home even if they know wht he has done, but everyone will spit on you and your baby."So by all means, let's outlaw abortion and go back to the 1950s and all those wnderful two parent families and women hating attitudes. Just be prepared for your daughters to pay the price. Oh, that's right, right,"good girls" won't get pregnant before marriage. And if they do, it means they were "sluts" all along. Are you listening,all you Bristol Palins. I doubt it. When you boil it down, anti-abortionists basically are people who are afraid that somewhere in the world there is a woman who is having sex who is not being "punished" for it by becoming pregnant. What a wonderful, life affirming philosophy-- as long as you are a man, Ross.

by on Jan. 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Replies (41-50):
LavenderMom23
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM

They can have equal rights, its called not intentionally killing either one.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.


Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?





Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me






chloedee
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 7:53 PM
1 mom liked this
Do you have any proof of these effects, physical and mental, from any non biased sources? Because mainstream scientific evidence shows no connection between abortion and poor mental health, that the majority of women don't regret their abortions and considering abortion is safer than giving birth, I'm not sure what physical effects you're referring to.

She should be informed of any risks, in writing, just like any other surgeries. She should be able to view her ultrasound if she'd like, but I don't think anyone should force her to. I don't personally know anyone who regrets their abortion.

I think women should be able to dress and speak how they'd like. Will I always like it? No. Will it make me think she's a slut? No.


Quoting created4apurpos:

ok and what about the health affects the abortion could have on her body that she is never informed of because the clinics are afriad she'll change her mind?  shouldn't it be a FULLY INFORMED decision?  because usually it isn't.  if it was then only the most desperate of cases would still go through with it.  fully informed includes ultrasound by the way.  I've know women who have regretted abortion and suffered major depression because of it.  how many are told that its just a mass of tissues and not a living being?  and I happen to think women should pay attention to how they dress and how they speak because we deserve respect but we've lost alot of that which we have fought so hard for because of how we have chosen to dress and speak.  doesn't make a woman a slut, just means that those who dress and speak that way have sunk the to level of the lowest man.  when women's lib fought for equality I don't think that's what they were fighting for.  I think the suffragettes are rolling in their graves.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.





Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?








Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me









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Sekirei
by Nari Trickster on Jan. 26, 2013 at 7:53 PM

I am going to give this a shot... 

Quoting LavenderMom23:

What about adoption, you act like adoption is not available. (It is not available to all.. if a woman is raped and her rapist finds out.. he can claim the child and prevent her from giving it up) Some women hide pregnancies, then give birth, the child directly goes to a new family bc most adoptive parents want a baby, and the woman returns to her life. (what about the children already in fostercare? apparently the older kids mean shit.) You know often women who become pregnant after being raped, then report two traumas: the first is the rape, the second is the abortion (and if the abortion is not available.. less women will report the rape, imagine being forced to see your rapist just so the asshat can have 'visitation'  or think about the living child living with a rapist) . 1/3 of my generation is missing! gone! I highly doubt anyone is going back to 1950 that sounds like a scare tatic. (not really... but, you think what you want) What causes behavior is multidementional, it is never anyone thing.  (true) I think you are trying to do what you belive is right, but I would ask that you get away from fear mongering. (Pro Life bs is also fear mongering.. the difference is...we have already had the pro life way... which is relatively new.) The pro-choice movement is about only one choice, the right to choose abortion and keep the money rolling, and not to keep a child. (oohhh.. you know how I think?? Awesome.. you are a mind reader??) It closes doors on women who are pro-life. (no, it doesn't... if you don't want an abortion, don't have one.. no one is forcing you) and for what? Money. (BWAHAHAHAHA.. you are only thinking about the unborn.. not the already here.. sad)


jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 7:56 PM
5 moms liked this

K I'm gonna try to stick with the original post.

I'll admit it's kind of out there in some ways, but stick with me.  There is a definite portion of the pro-life movement that wishes to impose their beliefs of what religious text says to everybody else.  Sex only in marriage, only between a man and woman, every pregnancy carried through.

Perhaps the ultimate goal for some is not the criminalization of abortion, but control over women's lives and sexuality?

chloedee
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 7:59 PM
1 mom liked this

There's no way to have equal rights if she doesn't want to remain pregnant. Forcing her to would give the fetus superior rights to her body. I don't have to like every woman's reason for having an abortion, but because it impacts her life and her health, the decision rests with her. 

Quoting LavenderMom23:

They can have equal rights, its called not intentionally killing either one.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.


Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?





Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me








SweetChild63
by Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM
1 mom liked this

Health affects? Exactly WHAT health affects? Geeze STOP LYING!!! An abortion is less dangerous than giving birth and have significantly more long term affects than abortion.

And depression??? I guess you've never ever heard of post partum depression??? Happens after birth too. 

I happen to think that women need to educate themselves first, then worry about how they dress.

Quoting created4apurpos:

ok and what about the health affects the abortion could have on her body that she is never informed of because the clinics are afriad she'll change her mind?  shouldn't it be a FULLY INFORMED decision?  because usually it isn't.  if it was then only the most desperate of cases would still go through with it.  fully informed includes ultrasound by the way.  I've know women who have regretted abortion and suffered major depression because of it.  how many are told that its just a mass of tissues and not a living being?  and I happen to think women should pay attention to how they dress and how they speak because we deserve respect but we've lost alot of that which we have fought so hard for because of how we have chosen to dress and speak.  doesn't make a woman a slut, just means that those who dress and speak that way have sunk the to level of the lowest man.  when women's lib fought for equality I don't think that's what they were fighting for.  I think the suffragettes are rolling in their graves.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.


Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?





Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me








LavenderMom23
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM

So you think abortion is a magical fix it operation?

Quoting chloedee:

There's no way to have equal rights if she doesn't want to remain pregnant. Forcing her to would give the fetus superior rights to her body. I don't have to like every woman's reason for having an abortion, but because it impacts her life and her health, the decision rests with her. 

Quoting LavenderMom23:

They can have equal rights, its called not intentionally killing either one.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.


Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?





Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me









chloedee
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Not at all. I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. She should have the free choice to continue her pregnancy or to have an abortion. 

Quoting LavenderMom23:

So you think abortion is a magical fix it operation?

Quoting chloedee:

There's no way to have equal rights if she doesn't want to remain pregnant. Forcing her to would give the fetus superior rights to her body. I don't have to like every woman's reason for having an abortion, but because it impacts her life and her health, the decision rests with her. 

Quoting LavenderMom23:

They can have equal rights, its called not intentionally killing either one.

Quoting chloedee:

It's very much a decision about her body and her health when she decides to have an abortion. The fetus depends on her entirely for survival; two entities can't have equal rights over one body, so she gets to decide. I don't think she deserves to be called a slut for that, or for giving birth, or for having sex, or for how she speaks, dresses or conducts her relationships.


Quoting created4apurpos:

except its not her own body she's making a choice for when she chooses abortion, its the body of the child within her.  a seperate body, a seperate life.  I wasn't more than 6 weeks pregnant when I first heard my daughter's heartbeat.  can you say thats not a life?

Quoting chloedee:

How about we allow every woman to express her sexuality the way she chooses and make choices about her own body without being judgemental about it?





Quoting created4apurpos:

if we stop degrading ourselves and pretending porn is ok then maybe men will start learning to keep it in their pants.  yes women are stigmatized and called sluts and men are patted on the back, how about when standing up for women's right and equality we start stigmatizing the men and have a little respect for ourselves instead of taking innocent lives to avoid being called sluts.  you wanna keep us from returning to the 1950's then change the attitude towards men.  porn is rampant, women dress like hookers and talk like the worst of sailors, we put babies in bikinis, watch shows where littles girls are put in more makeup than lady gaga and then blame the attitude of pro-lifers?  sorry but your argument holds no water for me











created4apurpos
by on Jan. 26, 2013 at 8:08 PM

I'm going to bow out with the agree to disagree.  you don't know the same women I know who've had an abortion.  the depression is more like PTSD then post partum.  as for health risks, it increases the risks of breast cancer.  do more unbiased research on your own and you will find the same.  with that I leave this conversation.

Bigmetalchicken
by Silver Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 8:08 PM

I blame Jazz and those Marajuana ciggarettes.

Quoting AdrianneHill:

I, too, was overwhelmed. I read the last bit a few times and shook my head to make it go away.

Alas, there it was. The real reason for abortion, of course, is money squeezing from the poorest elements of society to feed a multinational death machine of cash, encouraging sex for the inevitable abortion, and satan. Probably rock and roll or even that wacky rap music too.


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting LavenderMom23:

What about adoption, you act like adoption is not available. Some women hide pregnancies, then give birth, the child directly goes to a new family bc most adoptive parents want a baby, and the woman returns to her life. You know often women who become pregnant after being raped, then report two traumas: the first is the rape, the second is the abortion. 1/3 of my generation is missing! gone! I highly doubt anyone is going back to 1950 that sounds like a scare tatic. What causes behavior is multidementional, it is never anyone thing. I think you are trying to do what you belive is right, but I would ask that you get away from fear mongering. The pro-choice movement is about only one choice, the right to choose abortion and keep the money rolling, and not to keep a child. It closes doors on women who are pro-life. And for what? Money.

Wow.  There is so much wrong with this comment I don't even know where to begin.


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