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I am not saying we should go back to 1950 and turn into property without any selfmade income etc. The women's rights movement was good in a lot of ways. Comments that are ignorant of the first two sentences are not welcomed. That being said...Are women too independent in today's society? Think about how homemakers were onced admired, now they are critiziced for not bring in an income and doing 'real' work. Babies were blessings, now they are financial burdens that take away from a parent's ability to work or force them to pay for child care. PA was called taking care of your neighbor, now its a disgrace to need help. Largely these attitudes towards family size, homemakers, PA are caused by the women's rights movement. We are fought to work and now its become an obligation almost. With the acceptance of lesbian marriages, now men are basically obsolete. We can marry each other and do IVF. It's gone too far. The olypic commericials thanked moms, but never once included dads. Men have zero say in stopping an abortion, even if he wishes to raise the child himself without child support. It's almost time for a men's rights revolution.



Because it isn't clear: I believe women should be able to work, vote, be single, etc. I don't understand why people hate SHAMS.

I'm a Roman Catholic Christian, volunteer for Protective Animal League & LAP, cross-stitching, Certified Dog Trainer, green living, book reading, frugal, young wife, college student and mom to Evalynn 8yr, Ashley 7yr, Trey 2yr, and Hailey 11 months, and "mom" to 2 indoor only cats & 1 toy poodle and Pekingese!

by on Jan. 26, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Replies (21-30):
LavenderMom23
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Collectively. Women who look down on other women because they are homemakers, bc they are on PA, bc they are pro-life and have large families. That's women being too independent. 

Quoting punky3175:

Please help me understand what 'too independent' means because I don't believe there is such a thing as 'too much independence.' What do you consider being 'too independent'?

Quoting LavenderMom23:

Men used to be way too independent. There needed to be a balance. Now it seems to have swung too far the other direction. I did not respond to deb since her reply also included a complete disregard for the first two sentences. I want an acutal conversation. So thank you.

Quoting punky3175:

Because I don't. The idea that we are is absolutely absurd. As deb asked - are men 'too independent'?



Quoting LavenderMom23:

dictate, no, but have expectations...absolutely. Why do you feel women are not too independent?

Quoting punky3175:

1) no women are not too independent.





2) you can't dictate how people respond to threads.




nataliesmom2012
by Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:25 PM
2 moms liked this
Women are definitely NOT considered better than men. Women still don't even get paid as much as men. For doing the same exact job.

Quoting LavenderMom23:

I could not depend on a man either. That would not be healthy for women or men. Hence my first two statements very clearly set that I am against women being property. I meantthings that I dont think most women have not realized, the result of the women being considered better than men now.

Quoting nataliesmom2012:

Well fortunately for me, I don't live in one of those cultures. I'm proud to be an independent woman. I would lose my mind if I had to depend on a man.



Quoting LavenderMom23:

In some cultures that favor collectivism, YES

Quoting nataliesmom2012:

Too independent!? Is that even a real thing?



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punky3175
by on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:25 PM
3 moms liked this
Ok - thank you for that explanation. I don't view that as 'independence.' I view it as a bunch of judgy bitches who have nothing better to do than pass judgment on how someone else is choosing to live their life. It's part of the 'mommy wars' and I'm afraid those are never going to end. I also expect if it wasn't about PA and SAHM back in the 1950's it was definitely something else. Some people just simply like to compare themselves others and try to make themselves feel better.

Quoting LavenderMom23:

Collectively. Women who look down on other women because they are homemakers, bc they are on PA, bc they are pro-life and have large families. That's women being too independent. 

Quoting punky3175:

Please help me understand what 'too independent' means because I don't believe there is such a thing as 'too much independence.' What do you consider being 'too independent'?



Quoting LavenderMom23:

Men used to be way too independent. There needed to be a balance. Now it seems to have swung too far the other direction. I did not respond to deb since her reply also included a complete disregard for the first two sentences. I want an acutal conversation. So thank you.

Quoting punky3175:

Because I don't. The idea that we are is absolutely absurd. As deb asked - are men 'too independent'?





Quoting LavenderMom23:

dictate, no, but have expectations...absolutely. Why do you feel women are not too independent?

Quoting punky3175:

1) no women are not too independent.







2) you can't dictate how people respond to threads.




Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
mandaday
by Silver Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:26 PM
3 moms liked this
I understand that with women's lib comes a divide between the traditional women and the modern women. But if you look back at history you will see that there is an adjustment period after all major changes to societal norms. When you consider how long the tradition of the man being the head of the house lasted, the time since women's rights came about is very short.
We aren't too independent. But we are still in a period where we are learning that it is not all or none. One way is not better than another so long as we have the choice. But that is going to take time to reach that understanding.


Quoting LavenderMom23:

Women who look down on other women because they are homemakers, bc they are on PA, bc they are pro-life and have large families. That's women being too independent. Notice not a single woman, but collectively. Men can be the same way, no woman president bc women are viewed as too emotional. Men too independent in the 1950's is prime example from the past that I disagree with.

Quoting ashleyrenee24:

How can a woman be too independent? Can men be too independent? What are some example of men being too independent.


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IandLoveandYou
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:26 PM
1 mom liked this
So if you could not depend on a man..are you "too independent"?

I agree that there is an unfair stigma now attatched to being a stay at home mom, but honestly I really only see it get ugly on here never in real life. Also I think that, that stigma has nothing to do with women being "too independent".


Quoting LavenderMom23:

I could not depend on a man either. That would not be healthy for women or men. Hence my first two statements very clearly set that I am against women being property. I meantthings that I dont think most women have not realized, the result of the women being considered better than men now.

Quoting nataliesmom2012:

Well fortunately for me, I don't live in one of those cultures. I'm proud to be an independent woman. I would lose my mind if I had to depend on a man.



Quoting LavenderMom23:

In some cultures that favor collectivism, YES

Quoting nataliesmom2012:

Too independent!? Is that even a real thing?




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caito
by Silver Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:26 PM
2 moms liked this

No, women aren't too independent. We aren't precious little delicate flowers that need to be protected and revered. 


IandLoveandYou
by Bronze Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:27 PM
5 moms liked this
Okay.

Do you even know what independent means? Lol
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stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:28 PM
7 moms liked this

How can a woman be "too" independent?  That assumes there is a limit on acceptable independence.

I find that the anti-PA people are the same ones advocating for a return to the 50s anyways, as a rule.

The supposed criticism of women who are SAHMs is limited.  As a matter of fact I have never met a feminist, extreme or otherwise, who criticized women who are SAHM.  That seems to be a fiction of movies and Rush Limbaugh.

I consider myself a feminist, straight up, old school feminist.  I would have never and have never criticized a woman for working at home.  It is a tough job as I well know, and part of the undervaluing of women that feminists strive against is the undervaluing of traditional women's jobs, like raising children.

Furthermore I woukld like to add that this supposed view of women who stay at home being a "throwback" or whatever really is not an accurate picture of reality.  Working class and poor women have always worked.  Women are needed to make the world go round, now when the world revolves around jobs where you are paid a wage, rather than working with your hands to produce what your family needs, as women have always done, it is important that the work that women do is recognized as important and valuable.

rfurlongg
by on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:29 PM
1 mom liked this

Independence is a relative word. We ALL need each other in different ways. Mammals are social creatures. How we need each other ebbs and flows throughout our lives and changes as society changes. Rarely are these changes all good or all bad. 

quickbooksworm
by Silver Member on Jan. 26, 2013 at 2:33 PM
3 moms liked this

Women are not too independent.  Women are just independent enough to be able to leave crappy or abusive marriages.  Women do not have to turn the other way when the husband steps out.  Women who earn their own living do not have to move back in with family and can support their kids when the husband up and disappears or dies unexpectedly. 

One can say that women have changed since the 1950's, but so have men.  Men are no longer expected to be the breadwinners and do not take their responsibilities as seriously as they used to.  78% of child support cases in my state are in arrears, it's a good thing women are independent enough to provide for their children because the fathers certainly aren't doing it.

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