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Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

Women in Combat, Women in the Draft.

 This will likely happen because of Constitutional issues.  What are your thoughts on being drafted or having a daughter drafted.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/25/panetta-women-may-be-included-in-future-draft.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Panetta: Women May Be Included in Future Draft

Jan 25, 2013

Army equipment officials say engineers are adapting body armor so it provides a more comfortable fit for female soldiers.

Females may be included in the Selective Service and qualify for a potential draft should one be ordered by the president, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said.

The U.S. military’s civilian leader lamented that he didn’t know who ran the Selective Service, but whoever does will “have to exercise some judgment based on what we just did,” Panetta said at a Pentagon press conference Thursday.

On Thursday, Panetta and Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, lifted the official ban on women serving in combat roles, removing gender barriers from jobs in the military.

Congress established the U.S. Selective Service as an independent federal agency in 1940, one year ahead of the start of World War II. Presidents had drafted men in previous wars, but this was the first time it was established in peace time. In America’s history, the military has never drafted a woman or ordered her to register for the Selective Service.

That could change as the service leaders determine how to institute the new policy of allowing women to serve in combat arms specialties. In doing so, it may force Congress or the president to include women or scrap the Selective Service, analysts said.

“That, frankly, could be true,” Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women’s Law Center in Washington, D.C., told Military.com.

The Supreme Court cited the exclusion of women from combat in its ruling 30 years ago that the male-only Selective Service System was constitutional.

 

The inclusion of women in combat roles means a new constitutional challenge to the men-only system could turn out differently, Campbell said. That or the Supreme Court could rule that Selective Service can remain in effect only if women are required to register.

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, called the Pentagon’s decision “ill-advised.”  In part, she said, because it will affect “unsuspecting civilian women, who will face equal obligations to register for Selective Service when a future federal court rules in favor of litigation brought by the [American Civil Liberties Union] on behalf of men.”

On Wednesday, the ACLU issued a statement in support of the Pentagon’s decision, but said nothing about opening up Selective Service registration to women, or criticizing it for discriminating against men.

As far as Campbell is concerned, women should be signing up right alongside their male counterparts.

“Yes,” she said. “. . . On principle, yes.”

The U.S. Selective Service has begun looking at what it may need in terms of resources should Congress or the president want to make a change.

The system would operate the same way, but the number of people who would have to register each year would about double. The Selective Service has an annual budget of $24 million and 153 full-time employees.

The draft has gone through a number of changes over the past century to include age ranges reaching as high as 45 after the U.S. got into World War II. But through all the changes and wars, women were never included.

Growing opposition to the Vietnam War, coupled with evidence that people with money and connections could avoid it, resulted in Selective Service moving to a lottery system by the end of the 1960s and subsequently ending most deferments.

In 1975, with the U.S. then building an all-volunteer military, Selective Service registration was ended and with it, the draft.

President Jimmy Carter pushed to bring it back, but with a provision that both men and women register. Congress balked at that, however, and resurrected Selective Service as it had been -- for men only.

A lawyer suing to overturn the law argued the female exemption made Selective Service discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled otherwise, deciding that the exemption for women was not a violation of equal protections because women were barred by law from combat.

“The purpose of registration was to prepare for a draft of combat troops,” the court stated. “Since women are excluded from combat, Congress concluded that they would not be needed in the event of a draft, and therefore decided not to register them."

The court said military experts testified before Congress in favor of registering women, but “uniformly opposed” drafting them.

In the event of a draft that required 650,000 people, the military likely would want about 80,000 non-combat jobs filled by women, the witnesses told Congress.

“[But] assuming that a small number of women could be drafted for non-combat roles,” the court said, “Congress simply did not consider it worth the added burdens of including women in draft and registration plans.”

by on Jan. 28, 2013 at 8:35 PM
Replies (41-50):
JMmama
by Bronze Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 10:58 PM
I know you didn't ask me, but since I happened to see the question...

The military is downsizing. Some branches more than others. DH is active duty AF and so far in his 8.5 years in he has met a force shaping board twice. The first time they cut 30% of his career field for his commissioning year and the one before him. The 2nd time 10% of those same commissioning years were cut across the board. There have been similar boards in other ranks. It is becoming harder to reenlist. Some guys are being told they can't reenlist unless they switch career fields. Some aren't being allowed to reenlist at all. It is also harder to get in. The AF is allowing very few waivers for things that used to be easily waivered. Those that are able to enlist often find a long wait before heading to basic. Now, this is just AF. I don't have as much information on the other branches but I have heard similar things from other wives.

Also, there is a big draw down allegedly coming from Afghanistan (which, now that I think about it, is probably what yourspecialkid was referring to). I *think* that "everyone" is supposed to be "out" by 2014. I use quotes because there will always be some presence there. I'm also not going to believe it until I see it. Personally, I also think we will just draw down from Afghanistan to go in somewhere else, but I digress. At any rate, if the afghan draw down goes as allegedly plan that will likely further decrease the number of troops needed.


Quoting lga1965:

 


Quoting yourspecialkid:


 


Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

Then let them scrap the selective service.

 I don't think that will happen, not with the big drawdawn coming.


 


 Could you explain this? I am not familiar with the term "drawdown".I could Google it but it seems you have insider info that would be good to know.

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mandaday
by Silver Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:02 PM
1 mom liked this
There are differences in men and women. And I am of the opinion that the military could utilize some of the differences and play up our strengths, making women wonderful in combat.
And I strongly agree with your last paragraph. NONE of my children are disposable. I value my sons as much as I do my daughter.


Quoting chloedee:



Quoting stephs5isenough:

 


Quoting chloedee:






Quoting stephs5isenough:


 Women don't even belong in combat.  Men are physically stronger and more capable of that.  God made men and women differently.  Besides, if you put a woman out in that type of situation with a bunch of men, though it is wrong, there is much greater chance of rape, etc.  Combat is just not a place for women.   Draft is definitely wrong, because then we would be putting women out there in that type of situation when against her choice.


Those are  just my thoughts.


Not every woman would meet the physical requirements for a combat role. Some do. Why shouldn't they be given the chance?


If there's a greater chance of rape, then that is an issue on the part of men. Why should women be excluded because of some men's inability to act like decent human beings?


We would be putting women out there against her choice? A draft could put some men out there against their choice- why is that more okay?


 Here we are not talking about a woman's choice to go out there, we are talking about a draft of women.  Although, I personally don't think that they should be out there at all.  Women are just different.  Besides, now we're talking about heving to make seperate accomodations for the women too in an already rough and hosile situation.


I do realize that the greater chance of rape, etc. is a man's issue of acting like a decent human being.  But, I don't want to take a chance of me or my daughter's getting raped while we are waiting for a man to be trained to act right.  This is apparently just an issue that many men deal with and when they are in combat situations they are probably not in a situation where they have a big choice of willing dates and so they are more likely to start acting like "pigs".    That's just the way it is and I'm not sure we should be putting women in those situations.


It is true that a draft would put some men in there against there choice.  It did put my father~in~law in there against his choice.  I have one son who is very anxious to go in to the military and I have a son who DOES NOT want to go.  Yes, I would be very upset if my son who does ot want to go got drafted.  But, they are men and that is just part of what men have always had to do since the beginning of time.  The responsibility of protecting is a responsibility which is naturally in men.  in times of war, combat is that "protecting responsibility."

Why don't you think women should be out there if they make the choice and they fulfill the physical requirements? Do you have any proof of women being "just different" and it negatively impacting other armies in the world that allow women in combat? What seperate accomodations are you talking about?

I don't think men's inability to act decently means that women should be excluded from anything, and I don't think that rape is about not having a choice of "dates". Rape is already a huge problem in the U.S. military- should women be altogether banned from joining at all? Do you have any evidence of the rape rate being higher in combat in countries that allow women in combat?

I don't think your sexist last paragraph is based on anything but your opinion. No one is advocating for an unqualified woman to be placed into combat, but why shouldn't they have to register for the draft? My son isn't any more disposible than my daughter or anymore suited for war because he happened to be born with a penis. Both should be drafted, or neither should. 

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Healthystart30
by Silver Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:08 PM
I dont want either one of my children to be drafted or myself after getting my citizenship! Has nothing to do with gender, there are men out there just like women that dont want to serve in the military! to be truthful, this is the one reason why I have struggled with applying for my citizenship! I dont understand why its worse to draft females then men! The only real danger I see is that if both parents are drafted the children dont have anyone left!
lga1965
by on Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:18 PM

 Thank you. Back in 1966 my DH was about to be drafted and when he graduated from college, he applied to OTS and was accepted. (I would have preferred running away to Canada. LOL. )We spent 21 years in the Air Force and it had good points and bad points. We missed so many important events in our families' lives because we lived all over the USA and Europe and never close to home where relatives and old friends lived. Then there was the fear of my DH being shot out of the sky or crashing during exercises and on TDY's.It was wonderful being in Germany twice,though,for a total of 7 years. We traveled a lot and saw so much.Our son was born in Bitburg.

Anyway, I appreciate the information about the way things are now in the USAF. 

I wish that all of our military could be brought home to the USA and that they don't reinstate the draft. The draft messed up a lot of lives.

Quoting JMmama:

I know you didn't ask me, but since I happened to see the question...

The military is downsizing. Some branches more than others. DH is active duty AF and so far in his 8.5 years in he has met a force shaping board twice. The first time they cut 30% of his career field for his commissioning year and the one before him. The 2nd time 10% of those same commissioning years were cut across the board. There have been similar boards in other ranks. It is becoming harder to reenlist. Some guys are being told they can't reenlist unless they switch career fields. Some aren't being allowed to reenlist at all. It is also harder to get in. The AF is allowing very few waivers for things that used to be easily waivered. Those that are able to enlist often find a long wait before heading to basic. Now, this is just AF. I don't have as much information on the other branches but I have heard similar things from other wives.

Also, there is a big draw down allegedly coming from Afghanistan (which, now that I think about it, is probably what yourspecialkid was referring to). I *think* that "everyone" is supposed to be "out" by 2014. I use quotes because there will always be some presence there. I'm also not going to believe it until I see it. Personally, I also think we will just draw down from Afghanistan to go in somewhere else, but I digress. At any rate, if the afghan draw down goes as allegedly plan that will likely further decrease the number of troops needed.


Quoting lga1965:

 


Quoting yourspecialkid:


 


Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

Then let them scrap the selective service.

 I don't think that will happen, not with the big drawdawn coming.


 


 Could you explain this? I am not familiar with the term "drawdown".I could Google it but it seems you have insider info that would be good to know.

 

JMmama
by Bronze Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:23 PM
1 mom liked this
There are definitely ups and downs, but so far we have ha a great experience. The deployments are definitely the hardest part.

I also hope that they don't reinstate the draft. I think it is pretty unlikely for the near future though.


Quoting lga1965:

 Thank you. Back in 1966 my DH was about to be drafted and when he graduated from college, he applied to OTS and was accepted. (I would have preferred running away to Canada. LOL. )We spent 21 years in the Air Force and it had good points and bad points. We missed so many important events in our families' lives because we lived all over the USA and Europe and never close to home where relatives and old friends lived. Then there was the fear of my DH being shot out of the sky or crashing during exercises and on TDY's.It was wonderful being in Germany twice,though,for a total of 7 years. We traveled a lot and saw so much.Our son was born in Bitburg.


Anyway, I appreciate the information about the way things are now in the USAF. 


I wish that all of our military could be brought home to the USA and that they don't reinstate the draft. The draft messed up a lot of lives.


Quoting JMmama:

I know you didn't ask me, but since I happened to see the question...

The military is downsizing. Some branches more than others. DH is active duty AF and so far in his 8.5 years in he has met a force shaping board twice. The first time they cut 30% of his career field for his commissioning year and the one before him. The 2nd time 10% of those same commissioning years were cut across the board. There have been similar boards in other ranks. It is becoming harder to reenlist. Some guys are being told they can't reenlist unless they switch career fields. Some aren't being allowed to reenlist at all. It is also harder to get in. The AF is allowing very few waivers for things that used to be easily waivered. Those that are able to enlist often find a long wait before heading to basic. Now, this is just AF. I don't have as much information on the other branches but I have heard similar things from other wives.

Also, there is a big draw down allegedly coming from Afghanistan (which, now that I think about it, is probably what yourspecialkid was referring to). I *think* that "everyone" is supposed to be "out" by 2014. I use quotes because there will always be some presence there. I'm also not going to believe it until I see it. Personally, I also think we will just draw down from Afghanistan to go in somewhere else, but I digress. At any rate, if the afghan draw down goes as allegedly plan that will likely further decrease the number of troops needed.



Quoting lga1965:


 



Quoting yourspecialkid:



 



Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

Then let them scrap the selective service.


 I don't think that will happen, not with the big drawdawn coming.



 



 Could you explain this? I am not familiar with the term "drawdown".I could Google it but it seems you have insider info that would be good to know.


 

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funnymommy71
by Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:53 PM

 


Quoting katy_kay08:

women should absolutely have to register for selective service and be considered for the draft.  I don't see this as an unwelcome consequence.  If we want equality it comes with responsibilities as well.  

Israel has a mandatory military service requirement for women.  Just a fact.

 

GotSomeKids
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 12:31 AM

I say if men have to, then women have to.  Equal rights!!!!


Arroree
by Ruby Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 5:41 AM


I second this.

Quoting 4music:

I am equally NOT ok with my boys being drafted.

Quoting Whaaaaaa....O.o:

I am NOT ok with my girls being drafted. They would not be able to stomach war. They are just like me and non combative. I wouldn't be able to do it. :(



Arroree
by Ruby Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 5:43 AM

Agreed

I have to say my sisters would kick more ass in a warzone than my brothers would. They're way more vicious and have no mercy lol.


Quoting ashleyrenee24:

Exactly what I'm thinking. I don't see why women shouldn't be drafted.

Quoting katy_kay08:

women should absolutely have to register for selective service and be considered for the draft.  I don't see this as an unwelcome consequence.  If we want equality it comes with responsibilities as well.  




Arroree
by Ruby Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 5:53 AM


It's been coming out more and more lately that a large number of MEN are also raped in the military, in boot camp, on base, in war zones, etc. So why is it acceptable to send our boys into these situations to be raped but not our girls? Personally i don't find either acceptable but i also don't find either sex to be more worthy of protection.

Quoting stephs5isenough:

 

I do realize that the greater chance of rape, etc. is a man's issue of acting like a decent human being.  But, I don't want to take a chance of me or my daughter's getting raped while we are waiting for a man to be trained to act right.  This is apparently just an issue that many men deal with and when they are in combat situations they are probably not in a situation where they have a big choice of willing dates and so they are more likely to start acting like "pigs".    That's just the way it is and I'm not sure we should be putting women in those situations.

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