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Women in Combat, Women in the Draft.

 This will likely happen because of Constitutional issues.  What are your thoughts on being drafted or having a daughter drafted.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/25/panetta-women-may-be-included-in-future-draft.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Panetta: Women May Be Included in Future Draft

Jan 25, 2013

Army equipment officials say engineers are adapting body armor so it provides a more comfortable fit for female soldiers.

Females may be included in the Selective Service and qualify for a potential draft should one be ordered by the president, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said.

The U.S. military’s civilian leader lamented that he didn’t know who ran the Selective Service, but whoever does will “have to exercise some judgment based on what we just did,” Panetta said at a Pentagon press conference Thursday.

On Thursday, Panetta and Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, lifted the official ban on women serving in combat roles, removing gender barriers from jobs in the military.

Congress established the U.S. Selective Service as an independent federal agency in 1940, one year ahead of the start of World War II. Presidents had drafted men in previous wars, but this was the first time it was established in peace time. In America’s history, the military has never drafted a woman or ordered her to register for the Selective Service.

That could change as the service leaders determine how to institute the new policy of allowing women to serve in combat arms specialties. In doing so, it may force Congress or the president to include women or scrap the Selective Service, analysts said.

“That, frankly, could be true,” Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women’s Law Center in Washington, D.C., told Military.com.

The Supreme Court cited the exclusion of women from combat in its ruling 30 years ago that the male-only Selective Service System was constitutional.

 

The inclusion of women in combat roles means a new constitutional challenge to the men-only system could turn out differently, Campbell said. That or the Supreme Court could rule that Selective Service can remain in effect only if women are required to register.

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, called the Pentagon’s decision “ill-advised.”  In part, she said, because it will affect “unsuspecting civilian women, who will face equal obligations to register for Selective Service when a future federal court rules in favor of litigation brought by the [American Civil Liberties Union] on behalf of men.”

On Wednesday, the ACLU issued a statement in support of the Pentagon’s decision, but said nothing about opening up Selective Service registration to women, or criticizing it for discriminating against men.

As far as Campbell is concerned, women should be signing up right alongside their male counterparts.

“Yes,” she said. “. . . On principle, yes.”

The U.S. Selective Service has begun looking at what it may need in terms of resources should Congress or the president want to make a change.

The system would operate the same way, but the number of people who would have to register each year would about double. The Selective Service has an annual budget of $24 million and 153 full-time employees.

The draft has gone through a number of changes over the past century to include age ranges reaching as high as 45 after the U.S. got into World War II. But through all the changes and wars, women were never included.

Growing opposition to the Vietnam War, coupled with evidence that people with money and connections could avoid it, resulted in Selective Service moving to a lottery system by the end of the 1960s and subsequently ending most deferments.

In 1975, with the U.S. then building an all-volunteer military, Selective Service registration was ended and with it, the draft.

President Jimmy Carter pushed to bring it back, but with a provision that both men and women register. Congress balked at that, however, and resurrected Selective Service as it had been -- for men only.

A lawyer suing to overturn the law argued the female exemption made Selective Service discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled otherwise, deciding that the exemption for women was not a violation of equal protections because women were barred by law from combat.

“The purpose of registration was to prepare for a draft of combat troops,” the court stated. “Since women are excluded from combat, Congress concluded that they would not be needed in the event of a draft, and therefore decided not to register them."

The court said military experts testified before Congress in favor of registering women, but “uniformly opposed” drafting them.

In the event of a draft that required 650,000 people, the military likely would want about 80,000 non-combat jobs filled by women, the witnesses told Congress.

“[But] assuming that a small number of women could be drafted for non-combat roles,” the court said, “Congress simply did not consider it worth the added burdens of including women in draft and registration plans.”

by on Jan. 28, 2013 at 8:35 PM
Replies (71-80):
Aslen
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 10:50 AM
THIS!



Quoting AMBG825:

 I love how some people still try to blame women for all the ills in the world. Even worse when it's women blaming women for them.


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Aslen
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 10:51 AM
Happens every single day already. Maybe we just shouldn't allow women in the military at all


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 


Quoting candlegal:


Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it.


 Yup.  It is interesting to see so many women FOR it, knowing they really have no idea what they are for.  The tune they are singing would be much different if they had to spend a few weeks with a tank in the desert with no services whatsoever...all while their babies are being cared for by someone else back home.


 


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chloedee
by Bronze Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 10:53 AM



Quoting yourspecialkid:

 

Quoting chloedee:


Quoting stephs5isenough:

 

Quoting chloedee:



Quoting stephs5isenough:

 Women don't even belong in combat.  Men are physically stronger and more capable of that.  God made men and women differently.  Besides, if you put a woman out in that type of situation with a bunch of men, though it is wrong, there is much greater chance of rape, etc.  Combat is just not a place for women.   Draft is definitely wrong, because then we would be putting women out there in that type of situation when against her choice.

Those are  just my thoughts.

Not every woman would meet the physical requirements for a combat role. Some do. Why shouldn't they be given the chance?

If there's a greater chance of rape, then that is an issue on the part of men. Why should women be excluded because of some men's inability to act like decent human beings?

We would be putting women out there against her choice? A draft could put some men out there against their choice- why is that more okay?

 Here we are not talking about a woman's choice to go out there, we are talking about a draft of women.  Although, I personally don't think that they should be out there at all.  Women are just different.  Besides, now we're talking about heving to make seperate accomodations for the women too in an already rough and hosile situation.

I do realize that the greater chance of rape, etc. is a man's issue of acting like a decent human being.  But, I don't want to take a chance of me or my daughter's getting raped while we are waiting for a man to be trained to act right.  This is apparently just an issue that many men deal with and when they are in combat situations they are probably not in a situation where they have a big choice of willing dates and so they are more likely to start acting like "pigs".    That's just the way it is and I'm not sure we should be putting women in those situations.

It is true that a draft would put some men in there against there choice.  It did put my father~in~law in there against his choice.  I have one son who is very anxious to go in to the military and I have a son who DOES NOT want to go.  Yes, I would be very upset if my son who does ot want to go got drafted.  But, they are men and that is just part of what men have always had to do since the beginning of time.  The responsibility of protecting is a responsibility which is naturally in men.  in times of war, combat is that "protecting responsibility."

Why don't you think women should be out there if they make the choice and they fulfill the physical requirements? Do you have any proof of women being "just different" and it negatively impacting other armies in the world that allow women in combat? What seperate accomodations are you talking about?

I don't think men's inability to act decently means that women should be excluded from anything, and I don't think that rape is about not having a choice of "dates". Rape is already a huge problem in the U.S. military- should women be altogether banned from joining at all? Do you have any evidence of the rape rate being higher in combat in countries that allow women in combat?

I don't think your sexist last paragraph is based on anything but your opinion. No one is advocating for an unqualified woman to be placed into combat, but why shouldn't they have to register for the draft? My son isn't any more disposible than my daughter or anymore suited for war because he happened to be born with a penis. Both should be drafted, or neither should. 

 It isnt just about physical requirements or whether or not she could get raped.  War is very brutal..there are no ladies rooms and no time out to change a tampon or go pee.  There are some very good articles out there...I suggest you read some.

 

Is there a reason you're assuming I haven't?

If men can find a way to make these brutal conditions work, so can women. Do you have any proof of the lack of washrooms and women's periods (both of which have multiple solutions to address them) being an issue for other countries that allow women in combat?


Mommy_of_Riley
by Jes on Jan. 29, 2013 at 10:55 AM
Many of you seem to think there will be a draft tomorrow!

Currently there are so many people (men and women) voluntarily wanting to join that the draft is not needed. We are in a "time of peace" and people are being turned away from joining...
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timeforprogress
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 11:23 AM
1 mom liked this
Well of course men never have to pee or worse yet take a shit.

I don't need to read any articles to know what its like. I managed to find time to handle my bodies natural functions. It's doable. They even have devices not that make it possible for a woman to take a piss stranding up.

The arguments against women in combat are really getting to be ridiculous.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 


Quoting chloedee:


 


Quoting stephs5isenough:


 


Quoting chloedee:


 


 


Quoting stephs5isenough:


 Women don't even belong in combat.  Men are physically stronger and more capable of that.  God made men and women differently.  Besides, if you put a woman out in that type of situation with a bunch of men, though it is wrong, there is much greater chance of rape, etc.  Combat is just not a place for women.   Draft is definitely wrong, because then we would be putting women out there in that type of situation when against her choice.


Those are  just my thoughts.


Not every woman would meet the physical requirements for a combat role. Some do. Why shouldn't they be given the chance?


If there's a greater chance of rape, then that is an issue on the part of men. Why should women be excluded because of some men's inability to act like decent human beings?


We would be putting women out there against her choice? A draft could put some men out there against their choice- why is that more okay?


 Here we are not talking about a woman's choice to go out there, we are talking about a draft of women.  Although, I personally don't think that they should be out there at all.  Women are just different.  Besides, now we're talking about heving to make seperate accomodations for the women too in an already rough and hosile situation.


I do realize that the greater chance of rape, etc. is a man's issue of acting like a decent human being.  But, I don't want to take a chance of me or my daughter's getting raped while we are waiting for a man to be trained to act right.  This is apparently just an issue that many men deal with and when they are in combat situations they are probably not in a situation where they have a big choice of willing dates and so they are more likely to start acting like "pigs".    That's just the way it is and I'm not sure we should be putting women in those situations.


It is true that a draft would put some men in there against there choice.  It did put my father~in~law in there against his choice.  I have one son who is very anxious to go in to the military and I have a son who DOES NOT want to go.  Yes, I would be very upset if my son who does ot want to go got drafted.  But, they are men and that is just part of what men have always had to do since the beginning of time.  The responsibility of protecting is a responsibility which is naturally in men.  in times of war, combat is that "protecting responsibility."


Why don't you think women should be out there if they make the choice and they fulfill the physical requirements? Do you have any proof of women being "just different" and it negatively impacting other armies in the world that allow women in combat? What seperate accomodations are you talking about?


I don't think men's inability to act decently means that women should be excluded from anything, and I don't think that rape is about not having a choice of "dates". Rape is already a huge problem in the U.S. military- should women be altogether banned from joining at all? Do you have any evidence of the rape rate being higher in combat in countries that allow women in combat?


I don't think your sexist last paragraph is based on anything but your opinion. No one is advocating for an unqualified woman to be placed into combat, but why shouldn't they have to register for the draft? My son isn't any more disposible than my daughter or anymore suited for war because he happened to be born with a penis. Both should be drafted, or neither should. 


 It isnt just about physical requirements or whether or not she could get raped.  War is very brutal..there are no ladies rooms and no time out to change a tampon or go pee.  There are some very good articles out there...I suggest you read some.


 

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eema.gray
by on Jan. 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM

When the annoucement came out last week, my husband and I had the inevitable "what if our daughters (we have 2) want to go into combat arms?" discussion.  Since we have 2 daddies girls and he was 11B for 28 years, this is not an entirely unrealistic possibility.

He concluded that he would fight tooth and nail to encourage them into some other job.

I said I would encourage them to be as strong and physically fit as possible, and that I would suggest to them one of the hormonal BC's now available that limit one's period to 4 or fewer occurances per year.  :-)  I don't love the idea of my daughters experiencing the brutality that their father lived through, and the mental/emotional consequences of doing that job very well for far too long but if that's what they are determined to do, thenI want them to be able to perform at their absolute best.

AMBG825
by on Jan. 29, 2013 at 1:05 PM
3 moms liked this

 Do people not realize that women not participating in wars is new. Up until about 200 years ago women were expected to take up arms and fight right alongside their men. So basically, in a time well before we had indoor plumbing, women were out there with weapons doing hand to hand combat.

 

I think feminine studies should now be mandatory especially if you're a woman. It's laughable to say "there are no bathrooms so you can't fight." Bitch please! Tell that shit to Juana Galana and Joan of Arc.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 

Quoting chloedee:

 

Quoting stephs5isenough:

 

Quoting chloedee:

 

 

Quoting stephs5isenough:

 Women don't even belong in combat.  Men are physically stronger and more capable of that.  God made men and women differently.  Besides, if you put a woman out in that type of situation with a bunch of men, though it is wrong, there is much greater chance of rape, etc.  Combat is just not a place for women.   Draft is definitely wrong, because then we would be putting women out there in that type of situation when against her choice.

Those are  just my thoughts.

Not every woman would meet the physical requirements for a combat role. Some do. Why shouldn't they be given the chance?

If there's a greater chance of rape, then that is an issue on the part of men. Why should women be excluded because of some men's inability to act like decent human beings?

We would be putting women out there against her choice? A draft could put some men out there against their choice- why is that more okay?

 Here we are not talking about a woman's choice to go out there, we are talking about a draft of women.  Although, I personally don't think that they should be out there at all.  Women are just different.  Besides, now we're talking about heving to make seperate accomodations for the women too in an already rough and hosile situation.

I do realize that the greater chance of rape, etc. is a man's issue of acting like a decent human being.  But, I don't want to take a chance of me or my daughter's getting raped while we are waiting for a man to be trained to act right.  This is apparently just an issue that many men deal with and when they are in combat situations they are probably not in a situation where they have a big choice of willing dates and so they are more likely to start acting like "pigs".    That's just the way it is and I'm not sure we should be putting women in those situations.

It is true that a draft would put some men in there against there choice.  It did put my father~in~law in there against his choice.  I have one son who is very anxious to go in to the military and I have a son who DOES NOT want to go.  Yes, I would be very upset if my son who does ot want to go got drafted.  But, they are men and that is just part of what men have always had to do since the beginning of time.  The responsibility of protecting is a responsibility which is naturally in men.  in times of war, combat is that "protecting responsibility."

Why don't you think women should be out there if they make the choice and they fulfill the physical requirements? Do you have any proof of women being "just different" and it negatively impacting other armies in the world that allow women in combat? What seperate accomodations are you talking about?

I don't think men's inability to act decently means that women should be excluded from anything, and I don't think that rape is about not having a choice of "dates". Rape is already a huge problem in the U.S. military- should women be altogether banned from joining at all? Do you have any evidence of the rape rate being higher in combat in countries that allow women in combat?

I don't think your sexist last paragraph is based on anything but your opinion. No one is advocating for an unqualified woman to be placed into combat, but why shouldn't they have to register for the draft? My son isn't any more disposible than my daughter or anymore suited for war because he happened to be born with a penis. Both should be drafted, or neither should. 

 It isnt just about physical requirements or whether or not she could get raped.  War is very brutal..there are no ladies rooms and no time out to change a tampon or go pee.  There are some very good articles out there...I suggest you read some.

 

 






 

MamiJaAyla
by Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 5:49 PM

equal means equal... sorry if you don't like but it is what it is.  I have not issues with women going into combat roles or elite if they can meet the same standards andI've long thought that the draft should be equal as well. 

 

Tea4Tas
by on Jan. 29, 2013 at 6:14 PM



Quoting Whaaaaaa....O.o:

Quoting Tea4Tas:




You need to re-read what I wrote. I worded it very carefully to attempt to avoid assumptions such are yours.

"Total equality in everything". As in civilian workplace yes. Military combat and selective service no.


You said you never signed up for this. you can't sign up for "partial" equality. Woman who want to and CAN be in combat should be allowed to dbe in combat.  Woman who have no desire won't pass the qualifications anyhow......

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jan. 29, 2013 at 6:15 PM

I sure as hell do not want my 13 year old forced to join the military if that is not what she wants to do.

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