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Oregon Bakery Says No to Same Sex Wedding Cake

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Oregon bakery refuses to make same-sex wedding cake

'I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God,' owner says


By 
KGW-TV
updated 2/2/2013 5:53:52 PM ET

GRESHAM, Ore. — The Oregon Department of Justice is looking into a complaint that a Gresham bakery refused to make a wedding cake for a same sex marriage.

It started on Jan. 17 when a mother and daughter showed up at Sweet Cakes by Melissa looking for the perfect wedding cake.

"My first question is what's the wedding date," said owner Aaron Klein. "My next question is bride and groom's name ... the girl giggled a little bit and said it's two brides."

Klein apologized to the women and told them he and his wife do not make cakes for same-sex marriages. Klein said the women were disgusted and walked out.

"I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God," said Klein. "A man should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife ... that to me is the beginning of marriage."

At the advice of their attorney, the women are not speaking to the media, but they have plenty of support. Numerous people have blasted the Klein's on the internet.

What Klein wants to make clear is that he and his wife do not hate homosexuals.

"They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

What is not fine, according to Klein, is a marriage between people of the same sex. He will always stand by that conviction.

"I'd rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in then to see him bow down because one person complained."

ORS 659A.403 is the law in question. In short, it prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation. Klein and his wife have two weeks to respond to the Oregon Department of Justice's inquiry into what happened


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50679304/ns/us_news-life/?ocid=msnhp&pos=5#.UQ4LTieCmPU

by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 2:04 AM
Replies (441-450):
wowguildmomma
by Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:48 PM

So I should be forced to shop in stores that I know are based on values besides my own or it would be discriminatory of me to deny those places my money? 

Where is the line? If we were talking an event that denied them a house, basics like food needed to survive, the ability to bring in income for thier family then yes it would be discrimination as it would be denying them the ability to provide the essentials for life. However, we are talking luxury goods that can be gained from anywhere and are not life sustaining in any way.

To say that this is discrimination means that the family that was got denied a birthday cake for thier kid named after adolf hitler was wrong. Yet that baker was defended in that case for standing for what he felt was right. 

Not everyone has the same beliefs, views or ways of thinking and that is ok. But there is a difference granted it is a fine line of what is discrimination and what is standing for your beliefs. In both cases the judgment of what it is will differ from person to person.

For example me, I am a non-christian from a deeply Christian area living surrounded everyday by everytype of the religon from the open minded friends I have that don't mind that I am different to the extreme ones who would love to burn me at the stake as an example of those who choose the wrong faith, but I am not so conceited to think that just those who would refuse me service due to thier religion should be denied the right to do so. Any more than I should be denied the right to not shop at their business.  

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Because discrimination is wrong.

If a group of Christians decided that they don't want to serve Black people anymore should they be allowed to discriminate against them too?

It's not like she walked into the Bakery and said, "Will you make me a cake in the shape of boobs" or as you suggested, "Make me a cake in the shape of a pentacle".

And again because discrimination is wrong. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to discriminate based on religion.


Quoting wowguildmomma:

So to those that are saying that this law is right and fair. If I lived in Oregon and decided to shop in a Christian bookstore, that I would have the right to yell discrimination based on they refuse to sell me a Qu'ran, athame, spell candles or any product I needed for my non-christian faith or as gifts to my equally non-Christan friends. 

You are also saying that i could sue this same guy if he refused to make me a wedding cake that featured a Thor's Hammer, Pentacle, .

Now do you see why this law is dumb and shouldn't exist. Why should any business be forced to offer products, services, etc that are against thier values? Part of why I love privately owned and operated places are because of thier deep beliefs. I can choose not to shop at places that are openly Christian based on my beliefs so why can't they refuse me services for the same reason.

I know this way of thinking isn't popular in the day of political correctness and all the sue happy thinking but I think that it is wrong to force the world to adjust itself to my beliefs. Yes our beliefs are different but they shouldn't be forced to be ashamed to stand for what they believe any more than I should be. That is the beauty of free enterprise and freedom OF religion.




Imacakebaker
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:49 PM

 I bake cakes for special occasions.  My schedule is full for the next six months.  I will not do same sex weddings, pornographic things, or anything else I don't want to do.  It has never hurt my business.  I did four wedding cakes, and two birthday cakes this weekend alone.  I can afford to say no.

They can find someone else to make their cake.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 

There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 

 

Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:

He's going to be losing a shit load of business!

 

 

 

pamelax3
by Gold Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:53 PM
1 mom liked this

It is his business, so he can do what he wants

LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:54 PM

I suspect that this is not an issue to you because you have never done background research and selected a business based on their quality of work, reliability or competitive prices only to be turned away at the door because 'your lifestyle' is a problem for the owner.

There may or may not be 'thousands' of other bakers. That's beside the point. The point is, someone selected that business and was turned away for a reason that is none of their business.

Quoting Radarma:

 Meh, since I know there are thousands of other non discriminatory bakers, I am sure this couple will manage to somehow thrive despite this minor snag.

And as for your scenario, I suppose we would see a rise in gay plumbers.

If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong, who am I/you/we to tell them they are wrong?

Sometimes you just gotta nod your head and move along.

Quoting LindaClement:

I think it's illegal. If it isn't, it should be.

Discriminating against people based on personal beliefs is wrong, period.

What happens when 100% of the plumbers all agree: not taking money from gays.

Are they all allowed? If they're not all allowed, who gets to win the draw for who is allowed?

Quoting Radarma:

 

Quoting srichtermom:

Whatever happened to private business.  This person was not applying for a job and being discriminated against.  A private business has the right to choose who they sell items too and if the government starts over-regulating that, they are taking away yet one more of the few freedoms citizens have.  I love how people will sue people over anything.  Go to another bakery and call it done!

 LOL You said exactly what I was gonna say, thanks.

This is dumb, really. They ought to thank the baker for his/her honesty and find another baker where they can be sure the cake itself is not discriminated against. Let people have their POV's, as much as we might not agree with them. Isn't that what tolerance entails?


 


brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:56 PM

Your first statement doesn't make any sense. No one is trying to control where you spend your money. We are talking about discriminating against a group of people by refusing them service.

Discrimination has never been limited to the essentials to survive. Who told you that?

If his belief was, "White people shouldn't serve Black people" Would you agree with him denying black people service? I hope not. But maybe you would I don't know. But either way it is discrimination.

We are not asking him to approve of black people. Excuse me back to this example. We are not asking him to approve of marriage between people of the same sex. We are not asking that he joins the wedding and celebrates with them. But she was asking to buy a cake and was refused service by him based on her sexual orientation. Which is discrimination

Quoting wowguildmomma:

So I should be forced to shop in stores that I know are based on values besides my own or it would be discriminatory of me to deny those places my money? 

Where is the line? If we were talking an event that denied them a house, basics like food needed to survive, the ability to bring in income for thier family then yes it would be discrimination as it would be denying them the ability to provide the essentials for life. However, we are talking luxury goods that can be gained from anywhere and are not life sustaining in any way.

To say that this is discrimination means that the family that was got denied a birthday cake for thier kid named after adolf hitler was wrong. Yet that baker was defended in that case for standing for what he felt was right. 

Not everyone has the same beliefs, views or ways of thinking and that is ok. But there is a difference granted it is a fine line of what is discrimination and what is standing for your beliefs. In both cases the judgment of what it is will differ from person to person.

For example me, I am a non-christian from a deeply Christian area living surrounded everyday by everytype of the religon from the open minded friends I have that don't mind that I am different to the extreme ones who would love to burn me at the stake as an example of those who choose the wrong faith, but I am not so conceited to think that just those who would refuse me service due to thier religion should be denied the right to do so. Any more than I should be denied the right to not shop at their business.  

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Because discrimination is wrong.

If a group of Christians decided that they don't want to serve Black people anymore should they be allowed to discriminate against them too?

It's not like she walked into the Bakery and said, "Will you make me a cake in the shape of boobs" or as you suggested, "Make me a cake in the shape of a pentacle".

And again because discrimination is wrong. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to discriminate based on religion.


Quoting wowguildmomma:

So to those that are saying that this law is right and fair. If I lived in Oregon and decided to shop in a Christian bookstore, that I would have the right to yell discrimination based on they refuse to sell me a Qu'ran, athame, spell candles or any product I needed for my non-christian faith or as gifts to my equally non-Christan friends. 

You are also saying that i could sue this same guy if he refused to make me a wedding cake that featured a Thor's Hammer, Pentacle, .

Now do you see why this law is dumb and shouldn't exist. Why should any business be forced to offer products, services, etc that are against thier values? Part of why I love privately owned and operated places are because of thier deep beliefs. I can choose not to shop at places that are openly Christian based on my beliefs so why can't they refuse me services for the same reason.

I know this way of thinking isn't popular in the day of political correctness and all the sue happy thinking but I think that it is wrong to force the world to adjust itself to my beliefs. Yes our beliefs are different but they shouldn't be forced to be ashamed to stand for what they believe any more than I should be. That is the beauty of free enterprise and freedom OF religion.






Join us on the 99% Moms group!
The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Hopefully you do not end up the next person in an Article like this. Because it is getting harder and harder to discriminate against peple.

Quoting Imacakebaker:

 I bake cakes for special occasions.  My schedule is full for the next six months.  I will not do same sex weddings, pornographic things, or anything else I don't want to do.  It has never hurt my business.  I did four wedding cakes, and two birthday cakes this weekend alone.  I can afford to say no.

They can find someone else to make their cake.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 

There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 


Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:

He's going to be losing a shit load of business!



 



Join us on the 99% Moms group!
The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

DonnaPinitonya
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 3:03 PM

His descion is based on his religion, which does not say Jewish can not marry or anything like that. His religious belief says marriage must be between a man and a woman. So now you are reaching- if his choosing to not bake a cake specific for their wedding is sexual orientation discrimination than forcing him to or forcing him to fines and anything else is religious discrimination. There is a no win here but there is a thing, common sense, they shouldn't of gone seeking a same sex wedding cake from a openly Christian baker. This whole thing could of been avoided.


Quoting LindaClement:

Would you argue the same platform if the couple was Jewish and gentile? Black and caucasian?

Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

So based on your argument he can file a compalint back against the couple for religous discrimination. Seriously, he is not the only baker in the area so it's not like him declining is stopping them from getting a wedding cake. He respectfully declined siting his religous belief. He obviously doesn't discrimiante against the G and L community becasue he still serves them everything else. There is no sign saying no Gays/Lesbians/BiSexuals/Transgenders... His point is on why not is 100% due to his beliefs and they are throwing a public fit by complaing to the Att. Gen and getting all the attention we are all giving them. 

When it comes down to it, he is a small business and the OR Attorney Gen. has better things to spend tax payer money on than a small business who won't make a cake for some one.

Why would you want someone who doesn't support you and your SO to make your cake anyway?

They never should of even gone there, look at his website- bible verses are on it. It is very clear it is a Christian owned shop so I wouldn't be suprised if the shop itself voiced that fact. Go some where that is clearly against what you belive and this is what happens- why the drama? For cake? 


Quoting Bookwormy:

Doesn't matter that its a private business since he serves the public. Read the law & study the civil rights movement. You are not ever allowed to refuse service to a Black person based on race at a private business serving the public. If you own a private business serving the public anywhere in the US try it & see what happens.

This is ridiculous! Take history & civics! Non-discrimination laws trump private business stuff. You can't post a sign at McDonalds saying "No Blacks served here.". Come on people!


Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

Chances are it is private- I doubt the goverment pays his rent and buisness licences; owners can refuse service. If they couldn't we would not be a free country. 



Quoting Bookwormy:

Its not his home. Its a public establishment. Yes, he is trying to prove he didn't violate the law. That will be for the courts to decide.





Quoting DonnaPinitonya:


This seems to be a fine line. She walked into HIS bakery. She asked him, he refused. Is it discrimination to walk into his home, ask him and him refuse? This isn't work related. This is his belief. She should respect that enough to not throw a public fit and find a baker who will make a cake. It came off weird but I think his point that he will sell products and talk to gays was meant to show he doesn't discriminate. I honestly don't think choosing to not let someone pay you to do something is discrimination. In buisness people choose how to work, how to run their operations. This is how he is choosing to run his. 



Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

For him, it does.   It is that simple an explanation for me.




Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

One relationship is legally recognized in the state and the other isn't?

That is the difference I see.




Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

How is he discriminating by not making same-sex wedding cakes?  He is not refusing to serve anyone, he isrefusing to make a product. 

How is a same sex wedding cake different from an opposite sex wedding cake?





No.

We are talking about a cake.

If you make a cake, what difference does it make to the baker what the cake is used for?





Do you think a baker should be able to discriminate in baking cakes for anyone he chooses?
















DonnaPinitonya
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 3:12 PM

If he is going against advice of his legal council or if they haven't told him not to talk that is fine- the women not speaking is fine. The time to file a complaint on their part started the mess.

Under the umbrella of Christian are many variations like ELCA and LCMS, Mormon... and under all of those are different church structures. Older ones, based strongly off Catholic are very strong on marriage being for a man and a women while others that have come about later in the history of the church are not. Obviously he is very much the earlier.

And cake is not vital, he didn't take their money and then refuse and he didn't sit there with them for hours tasting and wasting there time. Seriously, they would be just as mad if he made a cake and they found out later he is against same sex marriage. 

The court is screwed no matter what- if they force him to pay fines or anything else that is religious discrimaination. It's not like he decided to just make up that he belived it. It's very obvious before hand. 


All people need to think before they act. 1, they should not of shopped a bakery that has such a strong Christian base and 2, he could of just said he was booked for the day they needed. But at the same time, wouldn't you be more upset some one lied to you than simply said I'm sorry but I don't support you? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Quoting Bookwormy:

He spoke out, so he is throwing a public fit IMO, talking to FOX & the like. They aren't talking, as advised by legal counsel. The AG is supposed to prosecute discrimination cases - that's their job. Many GLBT are Christian as it is a super-majority faith. Most US citizens, when polled, support SSM & most are Christian, go figure! We don't know that they looked at the website. You're ASSuming. The law covers all private businesses that serve the public, that includes bakeries. He can try, but thay aren't discriminating because they simply tried to shop at his business. I don't know that town. It isn't Portland. Maybe Sweet Cakes is the best or only bakery in town. I haven't a clue. I'm not Christian so I probably wouldn't have ordered either our wedding cake or our butch's cake from them for our illegal JudeoPagan lesbian wedding, since I looked at websites. But I'm not them! Once he refused they aren't getting their cake there. If he loses he pays a $50K fine.

It isn't about their cake. It isn't about creating drama. Its about discrimination by businesses. This couple isnt getting the attention. This bakery is getting some. Most importantly, businesses in the state of Oregon will think twice before ever again discriminating anyone covered by thei anti-discrimination law, including GLBT. That's the point. Ending discrimination in Oregon.

Your opinion is irrelevant, as is mine. Let the court decide this matter.


Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

So based on your argument he can file a compalint back against the couple for religous discrimination. Seriously, he is not the only baker in the area so it's not like him declining is stopping them from getting a wedding cake. He respectfully declined siting his religous belief. He obviously doesn't discrimiante against the G and L community becasue he still serves them everything else. There is no sign saying no Gays/Lesbians/BiSexuals/Transgenders... His point is on why not is 100% due to his beliefs and they are throwing a public fit by complaing to the Att. Gen and getting all the attention we are all giving them. 

When it comes down to it, he is a small business and the OR Attorney Gen. has better things to spend tax payer money on than a small business who won't make a cake for some one.

Why would you want someone who doesn't support you and your SO to make your cake anyway?

They never should of even gone there, look at his website- bible verses are on it. It is very clear it is a Christian owned shop so I wouldn't be suprised if the shop itself voiced that fact. Go some where that is clearly against what you believe and this is what happens- why the drama? For cake? 



Quoting Bookwormy:

Doesn't matter that its a private business since he serves the public. Read the law & study the civil rights movement. You are not ever allowed to refuse service to a Black person based on race at a private business serving the public. If you own a private business serving the public anywhere in the US try it & see what happens.



This is ridiculous! Take history & civics! Non-discrimination laws trump private business stuff. You can't post a sign at McDonalds saying "No Blacks served here.". Come on people!





Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

Chances are it is private- I doubt the goverment pays his rent and buisness licences; owners can refuse service. If they couldn't we would not be a free country. 




Quoting Bookwormy:

Its not his home. Its a public establishment. Yes, he is trying to prove he didn't violate the law. That will be for the courts to decide.








Quoting DonnaPinitonya:


This seems to be a fine line. She walked into HIS bakery. She asked him, he refused. Is it discrimination to walk into his home, ask him and him refuse? This isn't work related. This is his belief. She should respect that enough to not throw a public fit and find a baker who will make a cake. It came off weird but I think his point that he will sell products and talk to gays was meant to show he doesn't discriminate. I honestly don't think choosing to not let someone pay you to do something is discrimination. In buisness people choose how to work, how to run their operations. This is how he is choosing to run his. 




Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

For him, it does.   It is that simple an explanation for me.





Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

One relationship is legally recognized in the state and the other isn't?

That is the difference I see.





Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

How is he discriminating by not making same-sex wedding cakes?  He is not refusing to serve anyone, he isrefusing to make a product. 

How is a same sex wedding cake different from an opposite sex wedding cake?






No.

We are talking about a cake.

If you make a cake, what difference does it make to the baker what the cake is used for?






Do you think a baker should be able to discriminate in baking cakes for anyone he chooses?





















LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Feb. 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM

His religion has nothing to do with it.

His religion can 'say' divorce is wrong, that children out of wedlock is wrong, that shaving is wrong, that being hatless in public is wrong, or that marrying outside your faith is wrong ... that does not exempt the baker from laws forbidding discrimination. In fact, it expressly does not exempt him: (from http://wakeforestlawreview.com/a-unique-religious-exemption-from-antidiscrimination-laws-in-the-case-of-gays-putting-the-call-for-exemptions-for-those-who-discriminate-against-married-or-marrying-gays-in-context)

At first, our merchants wanted a general exemption from serving, selling to, employing, or renting apartments to black people.  But their state supreme court has recently struck down the state ban on interracial marriage.[9]  Now, our merchants are confronted with something more troubling to their consciences: a married or marrying interracial couple.  The issue was simple: they wanted an exemption in the commercial sphere for general, and religiously inspired race discrimination.  Is the issue now different because marriage is involved?  Must the restaurateur serve an interracial couple, the landlord rent them an apartment on the same terms as whites, and the employer hire a well-qualified spouse of an interracial couple?  Must the baker bake a wedding cake or the hotel owner, who regularly rents out space for wedding receptions, rent space for the interracial wedding?  Must the florist provide flowers?  When one of the employer’s white employees marries an American of African descent, may the employer discharge her for that reason?

For our merchants, interracial marriage is a grave sin, a violation of God’s word.  They do not want to be involved in the sin in any way at all.  Still, the law applies.  The Constitution does not protect their religiously motivated right to discriminate based on race.  On principle these merchants oppose all integration, and they would like a blanket exemption.  But as a matter of tactics, they decide to limit their claim initially to interracial marriage—they seek an exemption from facilitating interracial marriage.  Interracial marriage strikes them as the most unpopular form of integration, so it seems a good place to start their effort to achieve more general exemptions for race discrimination.  So they go to the legislature and seek an exemption for religiously and morally motivated discriminators, at least in the case of any connection with interracial marriage.  Should they get one?

They seek an exemption only from facilitating racial intermarriage.  Facilitating is a slippery term.  The baker, the florist, and the hotel owner suggest we start with freeing them from providing goods or locations for the ceremony.  The employer wants a broader exemption, one from employing one spouse from an interracial couple, the landlord wants an exemption from renting to them, and the merchant wants an exemption from selling to them.  Simply as a matter of public policy, should the legislature grant the exemptions?

Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

His descion is based on his religion, which does not say Jewish can not marry or anything like that. His religious belief says marriage must be between a man and a woman. So now you are reaching- if his choosing to not bake a cake specific for their wedding is sexual orientation discrimination than forcing him to or forcing him to fines and anything else is religious discrimination. There is a no win here but there is a thing, common sense, they shouldn't of gone seeking a same sex wedding cake from a openly Christian baker. This whole thing could of been avoided.


Quoting LindaClement:

Would you argue the same platform if the couple was Jewish and gentile? Black and caucasian?

Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

So based on your argument he can file a compalint back against the couple for religous discrimination. Seriously, he is not the only baker in the area so it's not like him declining is stopping them from getting a wedding cake. He respectfully declined siting his religous belief. He obviously doesn't discrimiante against the G and L community becasue he still serves them everything else. There is no sign saying no Gays/Lesbians/BiSexuals/Transgenders... His point is on why not is 100% due to his beliefs and they are throwing a public fit by complaing to the Att. Gen and getting all the attention we are all giving them. 

When it comes down to it, he is a small business and the OR Attorney Gen. has better things to spend tax payer money on than a small business who won't make a cake for some one.

Why would you want someone who doesn't support you and your SO to make your cake anyway?

They never should of even gone there, look at his website- bible verses are on it. It is very clear it is a Christian owned shop so I wouldn't be suprised if the shop itself voiced that fact. Go some where that is clearly against what you belive and this is what happens- why the drama? For cake? 


Quoting Bookwormy:

Doesn't matter that its a private business since he serves the public. Read the law & study the civil rights movement. You are not ever allowed to refuse service to a Black person based on race at a private business serving the public. If you own a private business serving the public anywhere in the US try it & see what happens.

This is ridiculous! Take history & civics! Non-discrimination laws trump private business stuff. You can't post a sign at McDonalds saying "No Blacks served here.". Come on people!


Quoting DonnaPinitonya:

Chances are it is private- I doubt the goverment pays his rent and buisness licences; owners can refuse service. If they couldn't we would not be a free country. 



Quoting Bookwormy:

Its not his home. Its a public establishment. Yes, he is trying to prove he didn't violate the law. That will be for the courts to decide.





Quoting DonnaPinitonya:


This seems to be a fine line. She walked into HIS bakery. She asked him, he refused. Is it discrimination to walk into his home, ask him and him refuse? This isn't work related. This is his belief. She should respect that enough to not throw a public fit and find a baker who will make a cake. It came off weird but I think his point that he will sell products and talk to gays was meant to show he doesn't discriminate. I honestly don't think choosing to not let someone pay you to do something is discrimination. In buisness people choose how to work, how to run their operations. This is how he is choosing to run his. 



Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

For him, it does.   It is that simple an explanation for me.




Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

One relationship is legally recognized in the state and the other isn't?

That is the difference I see.




Quoting romalove:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

How is he discriminating by not making same-sex wedding cakes?  He is not refusing to serve anyone, he isrefusing to make a product. 

How is a same sex wedding cake different from an opposite sex wedding cake?





No.

We are talking about a cake.

If you make a cake, what difference does it make to the baker what the cake is used for?





Do you think a baker should be able to discriminate in baking cakes for anyone he chooses?

















TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 3:25 PM

 Good for you.  But you might have to watch it if you are targeted, depending on your state law.  You might not be able to stand by your convictions; they won't let you.  Tolerance only goes one way, don't ya know?


Quoting Imacakebaker:

 I bake cakes for special occasions.  My schedule is full for the next six months.  I will not do same sex weddings, pornographic things, or anything else I don't want to do.  It has never hurt my business.  I did four wedding cakes, and two birthday cakes this weekend alone.  I can afford to say no.

They can find someone else to make their cake.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 

There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 

 

Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:

He's going to be losing a shit load of business!

 

 

 


 

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