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Oregon Bakery Says No to Same Sex Wedding Cake

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Oregon bakery refuses to make same-sex wedding cake

'I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God,' owner says


By 
KGW-TV
updated 2/2/2013 5:53:52 PM ET

GRESHAM, Ore. — The Oregon Department of Justice is looking into a complaint that a Gresham bakery refused to make a wedding cake for a same sex marriage.

It started on Jan. 17 when a mother and daughter showed up at Sweet Cakes by Melissa looking for the perfect wedding cake.

"My first question is what's the wedding date," said owner Aaron Klein. "My next question is bride and groom's name ... the girl giggled a little bit and said it's two brides."

Klein apologized to the women and told them he and his wife do not make cakes for same-sex marriages. Klein said the women were disgusted and walked out.

"I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God," said Klein. "A man should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife ... that to me is the beginning of marriage."

At the advice of their attorney, the women are not speaking to the media, but they have plenty of support. Numerous people have blasted the Klein's on the internet.

What Klein wants to make clear is that he and his wife do not hate homosexuals.

"They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

What is not fine, according to Klein, is a marriage between people of the same sex. He will always stand by that conviction.

"I'd rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in then to see him bow down because one person complained."

ORS 659A.403 is the law in question. In short, it prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation. Klein and his wife have two weeks to respond to the Oregon Department of Justice's inquiry into what happened


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50679304/ns/us_news-life/?ocid=msnhp&pos=5#.UQ4LTieCmPU

by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 2:04 AM
Replies (471-480):
autodidact
by Platinum Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 7:46 PM

 upon which right do you imagine they are infringing? 


Quoting wowguildmomma:

however the law is letting them discriminate against him.

no, it's not. do you know what discrimination means?

So it is OK for them to infringe on his rights but not him? Why? 

I am just trying to figure out why it is ok to discriminate against this guy for his beliefs but he isn't allowed to do the same? Because a law says so?

Just because a law says something is right or wrong doesn't make it so. Look at the multitude of laws we have that govern the rights or lack of rights to our bodies, the laws that non-christians try to pass that would govern the rights or lack thereof to express or not your religious stance.

what laws?

Man the list goes on about laws that either restrict the rights we have in the bill of rights or take them away completely. 

Religious, Value, and belief based rights and what constitutes discrimination or said rights varies person to person,

therefore shouldn't be subject to legal enforcement. malarkey. discrimination has a clear legal definition in Oregon law, and this fits it. 


In regards to your statement about discrimination. When you say they have a right to discriminate against this guy and thru him any other baker that would refuse service for similar reasons you are indeed condoning discrimination


edited for spelling issues.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


The law is NOT wrong to strip away the right for someone to discriminate.

Discrimination is NOT the norm and SHOULDN"T be condoned.

Them having the ability to marry is NOT the same as him discriminating against them by denying them service that someone else would get.

Those are in no way the same thing.

If his belief was, "Don't make cakes"  Then he would be perfectly fine in practicing that belief. But if his belief is, "Make cakes for Group A, but don't make cakes for Group B"-Then he is discriminating against group b.

Making a cake isn't against his belief. Which is what they were asking him to do. He owns a bakery and makes wedding cakes. So everything they asked him to do goes perfectly fine with his belief. His choice to refuse them service is discrimination.

Just so you know they are not taking him to court over a cake. They are taking him to court over discrimination.

Quoting wowguildmomma:

but discrimination is discrimination regardless of the how or why. I am not saying that it is right but that they both have rights to do so and that the law is wrong to strip a party of that right.

Anytime we choose to do something based on beliefs, values or way of life we are being discriminatory against others even if it isn't our intent. Be it a personal choice of where to shop or business based one to refuse service if the result forces the opposite party to act in a way contrary to thier beliefs or right then they are discriminating. 

Yes he didn't want to do a cake based on what his personal morals, he has that right. 

Yes they are free to marry as they choose, they have that right. 

Do either party have the right to force the other to adjust according to their indvidual rights? No they don't. 

Forcing him to go against his beliefs is just as discriminatory as he was in denying them the cake. 

Both parties are wrong. The right thing to do would have been to accept his stance and honesty and to have gone to another bakery. Hell if he is smart he should obtain the names of some bakeries who do cakes for the couples he doesn't. It is what one of our most successful shops in my area does. If they don't offer it due to religous reasons or morals they tell you where you can get it be it a racy cake for a bachlor/bachlorette party, religious celebration, or wedding cake. We also have party planners that operate in the same fashion.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Your first statement doesn't make any sense. No one is trying to control where you spend your money. We are talking about discriminating against a group of people by refusing them service.

Discrimination has never been limited to the essentials to survive. Who told you that?

If his belief was, "White people shouldn't serve Black people" Would you agree with him denying black people service? I hope not. But maybe you would I don't know. But either way it is discrimination.

We are not asking him to approve of black people. Excuse me back to this example. We are not asking him to approve of marriage between people of the same sex. We are not asking that he joins the wedding and celebrates with them. But she was asking to buy a cake and was refused service by him based on her sexual orientation. Which is discrimination

Quoting wowguildmomma:

So I should be forced to shop in stores that I know are based on values besides my own or it would be discriminatory of me to deny those places my money? 

Where is the line? If we were talking an event that denied them a house, basics like food needed to survive, the ability to bring in income for thier family then yes it would be discrimination as it would be denying them the ability to provide the essentials for life. However, we are talking luxury goods that can be gained from anywhere and are not life sustaining in any way.

To say that this is discrimination means that the family that was got denied a birthday cake for thier kid named after adolf hitler was wrong. Yet that baker was defended in that case for standing for what he felt was right. 

Not everyone has the same beliefs, views or ways of thinking and that is ok. But there is a difference granted it is a fine line of what is discrimination and what is standing for your beliefs. In both cases the judgment of what it is will differ from person to person.

For example me, I am a non-christian from a deeply Christian area living surrounded everyday by everytype of the religon from the open minded friends I have that don't mind that I am different to the extreme ones who would love to burn me at the stake as an example of those who choose the wrong faith, but I am not so conceited to think that just those who would refuse me service due to thier religion should be denied the right to do so. Any more than I should be denied the right to not shop at their business.  

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Because discrimination is wrong.

If a group of Christians decided that they don't want to serve Black people anymore should they be allowed to discriminate against them too?

It's not like she walked into the Bakery and said, "Will you make me a cake in the shape of boobs" or as you suggested, "Make me a cake in the shape of a pentacle".

And again because discrimination is wrong. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to discriminate based on religion.


Quoting wowguildmomma:

So to those that are saying that this law is right and fair. If I lived in Oregon and decided to shop in a Christian bookstore, that I would have the right to yell discrimination based on they refuse to sell me a Qu'ran, athame, spell candles or any product I needed for my non-christian faith or as gifts to my equally non-Christan friends. 

You are also saying that i could sue this same guy if he refused to make me a wedding cake that featured a Thor's Hammer, Pentacle, .

Now do you see why this law is dumb and shouldn't exist. Why should any business be forced to offer products, services, etc that are against thier values? Part of why I love privately owned and operated places are because of thier deep beliefs. I can choose not to shop at places that are openly Christian based on my beliefs so why can't they refuse me services for the same reason.

I know this way of thinking isn't popular in the day of political correctness and all the sue happy thinking but I think that it is wrong to force the world to adjust itself to my beliefs. Yes our beliefs are different but they shouldn't be forced to be ashamed to stand for what they believe any more than I should be. That is the beauty of free enterprise and freedom OF religion.















autodidact
by Platinum Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 8:08 PM
2 moms liked this


wow, this is a spectacularly lame analogy. he DOES sell wedding cakes. 

no, I don't see why the law is dumb or why it shouldn't exist. 

and he's not consistently applying his alleged values, he's just discriminating against gay weddings. no adjustment to any belief system needed. 

Quoting wowguildmomma:

So to those that are saying that this law is right and fair. If I lived in Oregon and decided to shop in a Christian bookstore, that I would have the right to yell discrimination based on they refuse to sell me a Qu'ran, athame, spell candles or any product I needed for my non-christian faith or as gifts to my equally non-Christan friends. 

You are also saying that i could sue this same guy if he refused to make me a wedding cake that featured a Thor's Hammer, Pentacle, .

Now do you see why this law is dumb and shouldn't exist. Why should any business be forced to offer products, services, etc that are against thier values? Part of why I love privately owned and operated places are because of thier deep beliefs. I can choose not to shop at places that are openly Christian based on my beliefs so why can't they refuse me services for the same reason.

I know this way of thinking isn't popular in the day of political correctness and all the sue happy thinking but I think that it is wrong to force the world to adjust itself to my beliefs. Yes our beliefs are different but they shouldn't be forced to be ashamed to stand for what they believe any more than I should be. That is the beauty of free enterprise and freedom OF religion.






Autiziumom
by Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 10:16 PM
Like the community for gay and lesbians say don't be mean don't judge don't be bullies! This nation is a nation where we r entitled to our own opinion! We don't need to like or hear it!
Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Why are people so afraid and willing to sell their integrity for the sake of being a self righteous asshole? Marriage isn't sacred, never has been and ISN'T GOING TO MAKE YOU GAY IF GAY PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO COMMIT TO A UNION.

Homophobia is so unflattering.

doulala
by Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Because he opened a bakery that sells wedding cakes to the public in an area that protects human rights.
He doesn't have to open a business in that area, that part is optional.

Quoting Imacakebaker:

 Its his "art" his "creation" a wedding cake is a big part of a wedding.  Why should he have to contribute or else?

frogbender
by Captain Underpants on Feb. 5, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Even if they could purchase the cake there, I don't know why they'd want to. Blind hatred does not make a good wedding cake. I'm sure that there are other cake businesses that would love to have their money.

candlegal
by Judy on Feb. 5, 2013 at 6:13 AM

There is a difference between refusing to sell to someone because of the color of their skin and refusing to sell to someone because of something that goes against your religion. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Why should they just go to another bakery? Is both a moot point (For him) and a fantastic point (For them).

She is not taking him to court in hopes that he will have to make them a cake. She is taking him to court for discrimination and to hopefully stop him from doing it to anyone else.

She didn't demand that he make her a cake. She left disgusted. Again-She is not suing to get a cake.

So the question becomes. Why should this man be allowed to discriminate? Should we allow restaurants to discriminate against black people too again? Bars? Hotels? I am sure if they look they will find places that accept them.

Or perhaps we should just accept that discrimination is wrong.

Quoting candlegal:

I agree that their business will pick up quite a bit for this.  The problem is that they will probably sue and he will probably lose.  It just doesn't seem to matter if it is your business or not these days, when there is an agenda, if you don't follow it, they will try to shut you down.

Why would they just go to another bakery?   That won't get them publicity and will not further an agenda.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 

There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 


Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:

He's going to be losing a shit load of business!







romalove
by Roma on Feb. 5, 2013 at 6:39 AM


Quoting candlegal:

There is a difference between refusing to sell to someone because of the color of their skin and refusing to sell to someone because of something that goes against your religion. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Why should they just go to another bakery? Is both a moot point (For him) and a fantastic point (For them).

She is not taking him to court in hopes that he will have to make them a cake. She is taking him to court for discrimination and to hopefully stop him from doing it to anyone else.

She didn't demand that he make her a cake. She left disgusted. Again-She is not suing to get a cake.

So the question becomes. Why should this man be allowed to discriminate? Should we allow restaurants to discriminate against black people too again? Bars? Hotels? I am sure if they look they will find places that accept them.

Or perhaps we should just accept that discrimination is wrong.

Quoting candlegal:

I agree that their business will pick up quite a bit for this.  The problem is that they will probably sue and he will probably lose.  It just doesn't seem to matter if it is your business or not these days, when there is an agenda, if you don't follow it, they will try to shut you down.

Why would they just go to another bakery?   That won't get them publicity and will not further an agenda.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 

There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 


Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:

He's going to be losing a shit load of business!







Where in the Bible does it say "thou shalt not make and sell a cake to a homosexual"?

This is moronic, and the problem with these cases when they come up, and the Christians that support them, is that it shows the ugly underbelly of Christian homophobia.  It doesn't go against a baker's religion to make a cake for someone's marriage that he doesn't approve of.

It is exactly the same as if he didn't want to make the cake for a black or a Jew.

LilyofPhilly
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Wonder if he interviews all opposite sex couples to determine whether he should bake them a cake ir not, based on the merits of their unions?
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LilyofPhilly
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 8:02 AM
So what if inter-racial marriage was against someones religious beliefs? Would it be OK to refuse an inter-racial couple?

Quoting candlegal:

There is a difference between refusing to sell to someone because of the color of their skin and refusing to sell to someone because of something that goes against your religion. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Why should they just go to another bakery? Is both a moot point (For him) and a fantastic point (For them).

She is not taking him to court in hopes that he will have to make them a cake. She is taking him to court for discrimination and to hopefully stop him from doing it to anyone else.

She didn't demand that he make her a cake. She left disgusted. Again-She is not suing to get a cake.

So the question becomes. Why should this man be allowed to discriminate? Should we allow restaurants to discriminate against black people too again? Bars? Hotels? I am sure if they look they will find places that accept them.

Or perhaps we should just accept that discrimination is wrong.


Quoting candlegal:

I agree that their business will pick up quite a bit for this.  The problem is that they will probably sue and he will probably lose.  It just doesn't seem to matter if it is your business or not these days, when there is an agenda, if you don't follow it, they will try to shut you down.

Why would they just go to another bakery?   That won't get them publicity and will not further an agenda.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Or he will gain business, as did a bakery in Colorado.  The owner said he would sell any sort of cake to anyone at all, except for wedding cakes to memorialize something that is not marriage, scripturally.   He gained business for abiding by his principles. 


There are a thousand other bakeries that will make cakes.  Pick one of them. I never understand these sorts of stupid arguments.  Do you want to force someone to do artistic work against his will?  It won't be very good.  The same sorts of cases have arisen with photographers who have been sued because they don't want to do gay "weddings".  Find someone who WANTS the business and go there.  Use common sense.  If someone didn't want to marry my intended spouse and myself, I would just go elsewhere. 




Quoting Luv.My.Kidz:


He's going to be losing a shit load of business!










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