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S/O of baker refuses to make a SSM cake

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Gay couple has a contract with a baker to make their SSM wedding cake.  The day before their wedding gay couple is watching the news and see their baker at a rally protesting against SSM.  Does the couple have a right to cancel their contract without paying?  



by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 8:05 PM
Replies (41-50):
krysstizzle
by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Nobody is forcing anyone to practice a religion is they don't want to.

Hmmm, wasn't this same argument used to prop up segregation, slavery, outlawing of interracial marriage? Same shit, different decade.


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 Religious freedom is a civil right...




Quoting krysstizzle:

Based on historical evidence, I believe the government most certainly has a role in enforcing civil rights issues.


Quoting tapies2324:

My point was that i dont feel it is right for the government to be so involved in our lives. The business owner should be allowed to run his business as he sees fit.





Quoting krysstizzle:

Some people are "morally" opposed to black or interracial marriage. Doesn't mean they get to treat those groups like second class citizens.






Quoting tapies2324:

Isn't it crazy?? This is supposed to be a free country yet a baker would be forced into doing something he is morally opposed to? Thats sad.









Quoting Bookwormy:

Cause the baker needs the money or lives in a state where GLBT is included in non-discrimination laws.











Quoting tapies2324:

I wonder why the baker would agree to make a cake for a ssm wedding if me didn't believe in ssm. Sort of hypocritical to me.






 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
krysstizzle
by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:28 PM
Why would it be covered under race? Are all blacks members of the nbp?
And being gay is not the political statement, just as being straight isn't.

These arguments are just silly.


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 So they wouldn't be covered under race?  GLBT activist could also be consider a political group...




Quoting krysstizzle:

Do political (or pseudo-political, as the case may be) groupa need or deserve civil rights protection? I don't think so, just like corporations don't.


Going through and making educated decisions on who should be afforded protected civil rights does not mean that we will afford them to every and any kind of group or category that can possibly be conceived. That's incredibly shallow thinking.



Quoting 12hellokitty:


 Some people like the Nation of Islam...or the New Black Panthers....



 



Quoting krysstizzle:

Some people are "morally" opposed to black or interracial marriage. Doesn't mean they get to treat those groups like second class citizens.



Quoting tapies2324:

Isn't it crazy?? This is supposed to be a free country yet a baker would be forced into doing something he is morally opposed to? Thats sad.






Quoting Bookwormy:

Cause the baker needs the money or lives in a state where GLBT is included in non-discrimination laws.








Quoting tapies2324:

I wonder why the baker would agree to make a cake for a ssm wedding if me didn't believe in ssm. Sort of hypocritical to me.




 



 




 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
JakeandEmmasMom
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:30 PM
1 mom liked this
No it isn't. It's a civil liberty. There is a difference between a civil liberty and a civil right. I encourage you to look up the difference.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 Religious freedom is a civil right...




Quoting krysstizzle:

Based on historical evidence, I believe the government most certainly has a role in enforcing civil rights issues.


Quoting tapies2324:

My point was that i dont feel it is right for the government to be so involved in our lives. The business owner should be allowed to run his business as he sees fit.





Quoting krysstizzle:

Some people are "morally" opposed to black or interracial marriage. Doesn't mean they get to treat those groups like second class citizens.






Quoting tapies2324:

Isn't it crazy?? This is supposed to be a free country yet a baker would be forced into doing something he is morally opposed to? Thats sad.









Quoting Bookwormy:

Cause the baker needs the money or lives in a state where GLBT is included in non-discrimination laws.











Quoting tapies2324:

I wonder why the baker would agree to make a cake for a ssm wedding if me didn't believe in ssm. Sort of hypocritical to me.






 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:32 PM

no

JakeandEmmasMom
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:35 PM
To answer the OP, no, they do not have the right to void the contract based upon their feelings about his personal beliefs.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
mandaday
by Silver Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:35 PM
Any luck finding that? I looked, and couldn't find anything. I don't know if you are aware of this, but there are guidelines to whether or not a business can actually refuse service. General disapproval of lifestyle is not on the list.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 


 


Quoting FromAtoZ:


As long as they are legally able to do so, yes.  Otherwise, they don't have to accept the cake but I would expect them to pay per the contract.


There is a difference here.  As a business, there are laws that prevent discrimination.  This baker did not enter in to a contract or a business deal.  He refused service.


In the scenerio you have painted, there is already a contract in place, a business deal has already taken place.


So you don't think the gay couple in my scenario could claim discrimination stating that had they know the baker was anit-SSM they would not have used his services?  I'm betting they could and people on here would be complaining that he took money from a gay couple without disclosing his views.


  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I did a google search and find my scenario has already happened...


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:39 PM

 


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:

As long as they are legally able to do so, yes.  Otherwise, they don't have to accept the cake but I would expect them to pay per the contract.

There is a difference here.  As a business, there are laws that prevent discrimination.  This baker did not enter in to a contract or a business deal.  He refused service.

In the scenerio you have painted, there is already a contract in place, a business deal has already taken place.

So you don't think the gay couple in my scenario could claim discrimination stating that had they know the baker was anit-SSM they would not have used his services?  I'm betting they could and people on here would be complaining that he took money from a gay couple without disclosing his views.

  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I did a google search and find my scenario has already happened...

 

No, they cannot claim discrimination.  They were not refused service.

You honestly cannot see the difference in the real scenerio and  yours, can you?

Just a few weeks ago a gay couple was served a meal at the Stingray restaurant and after their meal the owner gave them a letter expressing his religious views on Marriage.  Many people thought the couple had a right to sue and that the business owner should have expressed his views before taking their money.  There were in fact many people who said the owner should have just refused to serve the couple as opposed to taking their money when he didn't approve of their lifestyle.

 

JakeandEmmasMom
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:44 PM
There is no basis for a lawsuit under that circumstance, no matter how many people wrongly think there is. It was an assholish thing to do. But he has the right to be an asshole.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 




Quoting FromAtoZ:




Quoting 12hellokitty:


 


 


Quoting FromAtoZ:


As long as they are legally able to do so, yes.  Otherwise, they don't have to accept the cake but I would expect them to pay per the contract.


There is a difference here.  As a business, there are laws that prevent discrimination.  This baker did not enter in to a contract or a business deal.  He refused service.


In the scenerio you have painted, there is already a contract in place, a business deal has already taken place.


So you don't think the gay couple in my scenario could claim discrimination stating that had they know the baker was anit-SSM they would not have used his services?  I'm betting they could and people on here would be complaining that he took money from a gay couple without disclosing his views.


  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I did a google search and find my scenario has already happened...


 


No, they cannot claim discrimination.  They were not refused service.


You honestly cannot see the difference in the real scenerio and  yours, can you?


Just a few weeks ago a gay couple was served a meal at the Stingray restaurant and after their meal the owner gave them a letter expressing his religious views on Marriage.  Many people thought the couple had a right to sue and that the business owner should have expressed his views before taking their money.  There were in fact many people who said the owner should have just refused to serve the couple as opposed to taking their money when he didn't approve of their lifestyle.


 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:45 PM

 It actual is both depending on the scenario...


Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

No it isn't. It's a civil liberty. There is a difference between a civil liberty and a civil right. I encourage you to look up the difference.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 Religious freedom is a civil right...


 


Quoting krysstizzle:

Based on historical evidence, I believe the government most certainly has a role in enforcing civil rights issues.


Quoting tapies2324:

My point was that i dont feel it is right for the government to be so involved in our lives. The business owner should be allowed to run his business as he sees fit.





Quoting krysstizzle:

Some people are "morally" opposed to black or interracial marriage. Doesn't mean they get to treat those groups like second class citizens.






Quoting tapies2324:

Isn't it crazy?? This is supposed to be a free country yet a baker would be forced into doing something he is morally opposed to? Thats sad.









Quoting Bookwormy:

Cause the baker needs the money or lives in a state where GLBT is included in non-discrimination laws.











Quoting tapies2324:

I wonder why the baker would agree to make a cake for a ssm wedding if me didn't believe in ssm. Sort of hypocritical to me.




 


 


 

JakeandEmmasMom
by Platinum Member on Feb. 3, 2013 at 9:46 PM
Not in the scenario we are talking about.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 It actual is both depending on the scenario...




Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

No it isn't. It's a civil liberty. There is a difference between a civil liberty and a civil right. I encourage you to look up the difference.


Quoting 12hellokitty:


 Religious freedom is a civil right...



 



Quoting krysstizzle:

Based on historical evidence, I believe the government most certainly has a role in enforcing civil rights issues.



Quoting tapies2324:

My point was that i dont feel it is right for the government to be so involved in our lives. The business owner should be allowed to run his business as he sees fit.






Quoting krysstizzle:

Some people are "morally" opposed to black or interracial marriage. Doesn't mean they get to treat those groups like second class citizens.







Quoting tapies2324:

Isn't it crazy?? This is supposed to be a free country yet a baker would be forced into doing something he is morally opposed to? Thats sad.










Quoting Bookwormy:

Cause the baker needs the money or lives in a state where GLBT is included in non-discrimination laws.












Quoting tapies2324:

I wonder why the baker would agree to make a cake for a ssm wedding if me didn't believe in ssm. Sort of hypocritical to me.





 



 




 

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