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Is gender neutral language important?

Wash. state considers gender-neutral language bill

OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — In Washington state, dairymen, freshmen and even penmanship could soon be things of the past.

Over the past six years, state officials have engaged in the onerous task of changing the language used in the state's copious laws, including thousands of words and phrases, many written more than a century ago when the idea of women working on police forces or on fishing boats wasn't a consideration.

That process is slated to draw to a close this year. So while the state has already welcomed "firefighters," ''clergy" and "police officers" into its lexicon, "ombuds" (in place of ombudsman) and "security guards" (previously "watchmen,") appear to be next, along with "dairy farmers," ''first-year students" and "handwriting."

"Some people would say 'oh, it's not a big thing, do you really have to go through the process of changing the language,'" said Seattle Councilmember Sally Clark who was one of the catalysts for the change. "But language matters. It's how we signal a level of respect for each other."

About half of all U.S. states have moved toward such gender-neutral language at varying levels, from drafting bills to changing state constitutions, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Florida and Minnesota have already completely revised their laws as Washington state is doing.

The final installment of Washington state's bill already has sailed through the Senate Commerce and Labor Committee with unanimous approval. The nearly 500-page bill has one more committee stop scheduled before full Senate debate.

Crispin Thurlow, a sociolinguist and associate professor of language and communication at the University of Washington-Bothell, said the project was admirable.

He said that as language evolves, such efforts are more than symbolic.

"Changing words can change what we think about the world around us," he said. "These tiny moments accrue and become big movements."

Clark and former councilmember Jan Drago — the Seattle City Council has long eschewed the terms councilwoman or councilman — brought the issue to Sen. Jeannie Kohl-Welles in 2006 after they came across references to firemen and policemen in the mayor's proposed budget, as well as in state law dealing with local-government pensions.

Clark and Drago's findings sparked the initial gender-neutral language law that was passed in 2007, immediately changing those terms and directing the state code reviser's office to do a full revision of the rest of the code. A 1983 Washington state law had already required all new statutes to be written in gender-neutral terms, so state officials were tasked with going through the rest of state statutes dating back to 1854 to revise the rest.

As in past bills on the issue that have tackled sections of the state code, some revisions were as simple as adding "or her" after "his." Others required a little more scrutiny. Phrases like "man's past" changes to "humankind's past" and a "prudent man or woman" is simply a "prudent person."

Kyle Thiessen, the state's code reviser who has been working on the project along with two attorneys since 2008, said that the work was not without obstacles.

Words like "manhole" and "manlock" aren't so easily replaced, he said. Substitutes have been suggested — "utility hole" and "air lock serving as a decompression chamber for workers." But Thiessen said those references will be left alone to avoid confusion.

Republican state Rep. Shelly Short, of Addy, has voted against earlier gender-neutral language bills and said she plans to do the same this year.

"I don't see the need to do gender neutrality," she said, adding that her constituents want her to focus on jobs and the economy. "We're women and we're men."

Kohl-Welles, who has sponsored each of the gender-neutral language bills, said that while this project hasn't been her top legislation every year, "overall, it has important significance."

"I believe," she said, "that the culture has changed."

by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM
Replies (61-70):
AMBG825
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 6:00 PM

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.

 

It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.

Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.

And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.

Quoting AMBG825:

 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?

Quoting LindaClement:

Because it was funny.

The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.

This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.

Because it's unrelated.

Quoting AMBG825:

Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 



Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?

Quoting LindaClement:

Now that's a shame.

Quoting AMBG825:

neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."

Quoting wowguildmomma:

I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 

I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.

 




 


 








 

Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 6:02 PM

I didn't mean to post ad run and I'll be back later to read the replies!


stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 6:33 PM

This site is for women...

Quoting 12hellokitty:

You mean like the way this site, CafeMOM, does by presuming only women are capable of the role MOM?

Perhaps we should request the site name be changed to CafeParent?


Quoting annelauer:

You are completely missing the point. There are differences between men and women. And there are words to make that distinction. The problem is when a title presupposes only those belonging to a particular gender group are capable of fulfilling a role or inaccurately attributes certain characteristics only to one gender. This has a profound effect on how we view ourselves, others and our places within the community.


Quoting meriana:

The whole thing is rediculous. I wonder just how far they're willing to take this gender neutral idea...are we, at some point, no longer going to refer to children as girls and boys because that denotes a gender. People really need to get beyond seeing everything as stereotyping, excluding, offensive, etc. There are differences between girls and boys, men and women no matter how many try to deny it. Those differences used to be appreciated, these days it's all about making everyone the same.





LindaClement
by Linda on Feb. 4, 2013 at 6:57 PM

So, you're saying that when they stopped being called Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service they stopped being sexually harassed BECAUSE of that?

Really?

Quoting AMBG825:

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.

 

It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.

Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.

And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.

Quoting AMBG825:

 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?

Quoting LindaClement:

Because it was funny.

The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.

This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.

Because it's unrelated.

Quoting AMBG825:

Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 



Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?

Quoting LindaClement:

Now that's a shame.

Quoting AMBG825:

neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."

Quoting wowguildmomma:

I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 

I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.

 




 


 




AMBG825
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 7:10 PM
It was a damn good start.

Quoting LindaClement:

So, you're saying that when they stopped being called Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service they stopped being sexually harassed BECAUSE of that?

Really?

Quoting AMBG825:

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.


 


It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.


Quoting LindaClement:


Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.


And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.


Quoting AMBG825:


 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?


Quoting LindaClement:


Because it was funny.


The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.


This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.


Because it's unrelated.


Quoting AMBG825:


Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 






Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?


Quoting LindaClement:


Now that's a shame.


Quoting AMBG825:


neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."


Quoting wowguildmomma:


I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 


I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.


 








 




 




Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
LindaClement
by Linda on Feb. 4, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Really?

There's no more sexual harassment anymore 'cause their name changed.

I truly believe that.

Quoting AMBG825:

It was a damn good start.

Quoting LindaClement:

So, you're saying that when they stopped being called Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service they stopped being sexually harassed BECAUSE of that?

Really?

Quoting AMBG825:

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.


 


It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.


Quoting LindaClement:


Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.


And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.


Quoting AMBG825:


 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?


Quoting LindaClement:


Because it was funny.


The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.


This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.


Because it's unrelated.


Quoting AMBG825:


Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 






Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?


Quoting LindaClement:


Now that's a shame.


Quoting AMBG825:


neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."


Quoting wowguildmomma:


I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 


I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.


 








 




 





AMBG825
by on Feb. 4, 2013 at 7:19 PM
Didn't say that at all. If I constantly refer to yiu as a useless incubator I can guarantee you that you will find my very vocal opinion of your "profession" offensive. And when everyone else starts following suit and calling yiou a useless incubator simply because that is what I've been calling you I guarantee you are going to want me to stop calling you a useless incubator.


It won't magically make me quit thinking of you as a useless incubator but it will prevent others who don't know that you're a useless incubator from treating you as such.


And again. Why do you hate women so much that you would actually sit there and refer to all women in the navy as whores. I hope you don't have a daughter. And if you do I hope to all the gods that she joins the navy so we can all tell her you called her a whore.


Quoting LindaClement:

Really?

There's no more sexual harassment anymore 'cause their name changed.

I truly believe that.

Quoting AMBG825:

It was a damn good start.



Quoting LindaClement:

So, you're saying that when they stopped being called Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service they stopped being sexually harassed BECAUSE of that?

Really?

Quoting AMBG825:

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.



 



It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.



Quoting LindaClement:



Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.



And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.



Quoting AMBG825:



 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?



Quoting LindaClement:



Because it was funny.



The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.



This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.



Because it's unrelated.



Quoting AMBG825:



Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 









Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?



Quoting LindaClement:



Now that's a shame.



Quoting AMBG825:



neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."



Quoting wowguildmomma:



I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 



I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.



 












 






 





Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
LindaClement
by Linda on Feb. 5, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Your theory is flawed in two ways:

1. whores are women who trade sexual contact for cash --not government pay, not promotions and not 'fitting in'-- just money. Some of them take Visa. I'm not confused by this: it is a completely legal activity where I live. You are confused by this in several ways, starting with some delusion that I have said --in any context before this paragraph-- the word 'whore' even once in this discussion.

2. you presume that what anyone else thinks or says has any means to alter reality.

Frankly, it doesn't matter at all to who you are or what you do, how you think or what you feel, if I tell everyone within an 98 mile radius of you that you are purple with yellow stripes.

a. it doesn't make you purple or striped yellow
b. it doesn't make anyone believe me
c. it doesn't alter your behaviour in any way 

And, just to clarify: you're determination to refer to me as a 'useless incubator' only confused me. You lack the power to offend me to the direct degree that I refuse to hand over my self-control to you. You don't have access to the list of what offends me, and I can guarantee you will not be able to guess what it might be.

Quoting AMBG825:

Didn't say that at all. If I constantly refer to yiu as a useless incubator I can guarantee you that you will find my very vocal opinion of your "profession" offensive. And when everyone else starts following suit and calling yiou a useless incubator simply because that is what I've been calling you I guarantee you are going to want me to stop calling you a useless incubator.


It won't magically make me quit thinking of you as a useless incubator but it will prevent others who don't know that you're a useless incubator from treating you as such.


And again. Why do you hate women so much that you would actually sit there and refer to all women in the navy as whores. I hope you don't have a daughter. And if you do I hope to all the gods that she joins the navy so we can all tell her you called her a whore.


Quoting LindaClement:

Really?

There's no more sexual harassment anymore 'cause their name changed.

I truly believe that.

Quoting AMBG825:

It was a damn good start.



Quoting LindaClement:

So, you're saying that when they stopped being called Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service they stopped being sexually harassed BECAUSE of that?

Really?

Quoting AMBG825:

Well you are no longer being called a whore. It is a lot easier to do your job when people don't automatically equate the job you are SUPPOSED to be doing with prostitution. If your boss and coworkers aren't constantly referring to you as a hooke, they eventually stop treating you like one. 

Quoting LindaClement:

Which, magically can no longer happen because of a change of terms?

Yeah.

Quoting AMBG825:

 It is when it directly impacts your ability to do your job. IF you boss calls you a whore and your coworkers follow suit, it most certainly does affect you. And it is your business. The acronym was in bad taste and directly impacted how the Navy's female sailors were treated and viewed. It may not have been intended to have that consequence, but it did nonetheless.



 



It is an excellent example of how language can have those unintended impacts on groups of people.



Quoting LindaClement:



Actually, what other people view me as is none of my business.



And, no: an acronym that means something specific does not in any way colour the way 'the rest of the world' sees anyone.



Quoting AMBG825:



 Sure it's related. If even your boss ...in this case the Navy is referring to you as a whore, you don't think that the rest of the world will view you the same?



Quoting LindaClement:



Because it was funny.



The slogan didn't make people treat them like hookers, and it had nothing at all to do with how they responded to sexual advances. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with misogyny. Or promiscuity.



This PC era, when people are apparently keenly attuned to -isms and discrimination hasn't prevented people from being promiscuous, either.



Because it's unrelated.



Quoting AMBG825:



Why is it a shame?  Female sailors aren't whores. They do a job and being ridden isn't one of them. Changing the slogan didn't stop people from treating them as government paid hookers. But calling them sailors just like everyone else sure helped to put an end to the treatment. It's a fine example of how language and terminology can have a detrimental affect on how people are viewed. 









Unless you are one of those that continue to believe that military women are government paid whores. Then that is aroblem YOU need to deal with. And why do dislike women so much?



Quoting LindaClement:



Now that's a shame.



Quoting AMBG825:



neat trivia fact (and you might already know this.) Women in the Navy used to be called WAVES. Women in Active Volunteer Enlisted Service. They stopped using it because of the slogan "Join the Navy. Ride the waves."



Quoting wowguildmomma:



I fail to see the problem with things as they were. While I was in the navy I wasn't offended that my rank was Seaman rather than Seawoman or Seaperson. 



I think we are getting a bit overboard and that there are much bigger fish to fry politically than how the gender references are worded. How about our budgets, reforms, etc...... those need attention much more than how the stupid laws they are passing are worded.



 












 






 






AMBG825
by on Feb. 5, 2013 at 7:10 PM

 It isn't flawed at all. If what people call you directly impacts the way you are viewed and therefore treated, it interferes with your job.

 

And yes, if you are going to sit here and say military women do nothing but give their coworkers sexual satisfaction instead of doing their actual job, then you are no better than the assholes that view them as government paid hookers.

 

and I do sincerely hope that your daughter does join the military.

Quoting LindaClement:

Your theory is flawed in two ways:

1. whores are women who trade sexual contact for cash --not government pay, not promotions and not 'fitting in'-- just money. Some of them take Visa. I'm not confused by this: it is a completely legal activity where I live. You are confused by this in several ways, starting with some delusion that I have said --in any context before this paragraph-- the word 'whore' even once in this discussion.

2. you presume that what anyone else thinks or says has any means to alter reality.

Frankly, it doesn't matter at all to who you are or what you do, how you think or what you feel, if I tell everyone within an 98 mile radius of you that you are purple with yellow stripes.

a. it doesn't make you purple or striped yellow
b. it doesn't make anyone believe me
c. it doesn't alter your behaviour in any way 

And, just to clarify: you're determination to refer to me as a 'useless incubator' only confused me. You lack the power to offend me to the direct degree that I refuse to hand over my self-control to you. You don't have access to the list of what offends me, and I can guarantee you will not be able to guess what it might be.

Quoting AMBG825:

Didn't say that at all. If I constantly refer to yiu as a useless incubator I can guarantee you that you will find my very vocal opinion of your "profession" offensive. And when everyone else starts following suit and calling yiou a useless incubator simply because that is what I've been calling you I guarantee you are going to want me to stop calling you a useless incubator.


It won't magically make me quit thinking of you as a useless incubator but it will prevent others who don't know that you're a useless incubator from treating you as such.


And again. Why do you hate women so much that you would actually sit there and refer to all women in the navy as whores. I hope you don't have a daughter. And if you do I hope to all the gods that she joins the navy so we can all tell her you called her a whore.







 

LindaClement
by Linda on Feb. 5, 2013 at 7:21 PM

You need to go back and read what I actually wrote.

You are having an argument in your own head. I have not 'said' anything of the kind, and it's surreal to keep discovering that you seem to have 'read' it somewhere --or attributed it to me.

Is there someone else writing in purple, here?

Quoting AMBG825:

 It isn't flawed at all. If what people call you directly impacts the way you are viewed and therefore treated, it interferes with your job.

 

And yes, if you are going to sit here and say military women do nothing but give their coworkers sexual satisfaction instead of doing their actual job, then you are no better than the assholes that view them as government paid hookers.

 

and I do sincerely hope that your daughter does join the military.

Quoting LindaClement:

Your theory is flawed in two ways:

1. whores are women who trade sexual contact for cash --not government pay, not promotions and not 'fitting in'-- just money. Some of them take Visa. I'm not confused by this: it is a completely legal activity where I live. You are confused by this in several ways, starting with some delusion that I have said --in any context before this paragraph-- the word 'whore' even once in this discussion.

2. you presume that what anyone else thinks or says has any means to alter reality.

Frankly, it doesn't matter at all to who you are or what you do, how you think or what you feel, if I tell everyone within an 98 mile radius of you that you are purple with yellow stripes.

a. it doesn't make you purple or striped yellow
b. it doesn't make anyone believe me
c. it doesn't alter your behaviour in any way 

And, just to clarify: you're determination to refer to me as a 'useless incubator' only confused me. You lack the power to offend me to the direct degree that I refuse to hand over my self-control to you. You don't have access to the list of what offends me, and I can guarantee you will not be able to guess what it might be.

Quoting AMBG825:

Didn't say that at all. If I constantly refer to yiu as a useless incubator I can guarantee you that you will find my very vocal opinion of your "profession" offensive. And when everyone else starts following suit and calling yiou a useless incubator simply because that is what I've been calling you I guarantee you are going to want me to stop calling you a useless incubator.


It won't magically make me quit thinking of you as a useless incubator but it will prevent others who don't know that you're a useless incubator from treating you as such.


And again. Why do you hate women so much that you would actually sit there and refer to all women in the navy as whores. I hope you don't have a daughter. And if you do I hope to all the gods that she joins the navy so we can all tell her you called her a whore.



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