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Should churches, pastors, or judges be sued for not wanting to perform a wedding ceremony?

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Apply any reason why this person chooses not do it.

Should people be able to force them to perform a ceremony?

by on Feb. 5, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Replies (161-170):
Bookwormy
by Platinum Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 10:47 PM
Judges: yes, definitely if they aren't following the law

Churches & pastors: if its for race, maybe. I don't think its OK to practice racial discrimination & use religion for protection. Even were SSM is legal they aren't required to perform it. Where GLBT discrimination isn't allowed, churches are allowed to discriminate against them. So its got to me a bigger issue. Racism is pretty big to me. Refusing to do interfaith, rabbis refuse all the time. But for racism, sure.
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talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 10:50 PM

I'm not the one attacking people the way you and she have been doing.

Neither of you simply answered the question should they have to perform a ceremony they can perform but are not required to perform.


Quoting motha2daDuchess:

GTFOH, lots of people said no, grow up with your oh name calling is against TOS, fucking ridiculous

Quoting talia-mom:

Except you didn't just say no.  



Quoting frogbender:

I have said no about 10 times in the course of this thread. Your comprehension skills are just crap. I really couldn't care less about TOS. Getting booted wouldn't hurt my feelings. 



Q

All I have asked is should they be sued if they refuse to perform a ceremony if they can perform it but aren't required.   You never answered.   You just went on the insane attack.

You are the one getting rude and ugly and name calling (which is against TOS) for no reason.



Quoting frogbender:


Even without Texas as a factor, you still haven't acknowledged the simple fact that if a civil servant is REQUIRED by their job to perform marriage ceremones and refuses to on the basis of their beliefs, they should be asked to resign from their position. 

Maybe you should get glasses to be able to see the point that everyone has made so abundantly clear. 

Quite obviously, if the official ISN"T REQUIRED to perform the duties, there should be no repercussion. 

Seriously.


Quoting talia-mom:

No I didn't say they weren't required in Texas.

I asked if the judge should be sued.

But make this a name calling ugly thing because you aren't capable of listening to a point of view not your own.















TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 12:21 AM

No, that would violate the First Amendment to the Constitution.  Judges are not required to perform marriages either; it's optional.

romalove
by Roma on Feb. 6, 2013 at 5:59 AM


Quoting talia-mom:

They should be sued for something they may not be required by state law to do?


Quoting romalove:

This

Quoting Sekirei:

Churches or Pastors.. no

Judges, oui



I gave this some thought.  I looked to see if there was anyone who was required by law to perform marriage ceremonies if they were a public employee, and couldn't find a good answer, but the general consensus I saw was that they did not have to.  However, they didn't say anything about it being case by case, more like, people who are uncomfortable with marrying could choose not to officiate.

For sure, religious leaders have not been made, and should not be made, to marry anyone they don't wish to.  They are covered by First Amendment protection and no church should be made to accommodate anyone that doesn't fit with their religious beliefs and traditions.

Public employees are a different matter.  After giving it thought, I have come down with anyone who is cherry picking which ceremonies they choose to perform had best not be giving reasons for turning down officiating requests that are discriminatory.  Meaning, "I am busy that day" or "I can't fit that into my schedule" works for me.  "I don't marry homosexuals" does not.  

The question asked, though, had to do with lawsuit.  Anyone can sue anybody for anything.  The suit may be frivolous or with merit.  Can they win is the real question.

I think they "might" have a shot at it if the marriage in question is legal in the state in question and the person denying does so on grounds that fit within discrimination laws in that state.

candlegal
by Judy on Feb. 6, 2013 at 6:47 AM

NO

JoRana83
by Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 10:01 AM
Absolutely not! Think of it this way: I am a doula and when I was being trained I was taught to be aware of my biases. If I was of the opinion that circumcision should never be performed on a newborn (I'm not of that opinion) there is a real possibility that I could not adequately support a family who intended to circumcise right away. It's kind of the same thing. If a preacher/pastor/ insert officiant here feels uncomfortable performing the wedding ceremony for any reason, he/she needs to be up front with that couple that he/she does not feel capable of doing the best possible job for them and give them the opportunity to find someone better suited to their particular situation.
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ashellbell
by shellbark on Feb. 6, 2013 at 10:09 AM
Churches and pastors should have the right to deny.


Judges, no.
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Euphoric
by Bazinga! on Feb. 6, 2013 at 10:49 AM

 This

Quoting ashellbell:

Churches and pastors should have the right to deny.


Judges, no.

 

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katy_kay08
by on Feb. 6, 2013 at 11:09 AM

judges that perform wedding ceremonies should ultimately not have any say.  If they perform ceremonies as a part of their job then they should perform ceremonies for all couples the state legally recognizes as eligible to wed.  I don't believe all judges are required to perform wedding ceremonies in the course of their job so it may be as simple as not doing any if you aren't going to do all. 

Churches and pastors, can certainly decide they do not want to perform ceremonies for unions they do not support.  

Ziva65
by Gold Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM

Pastors, preists, church related can refuse. But, a judge is a public servant- as long as it's legal, I don't think he can refuse. But, now that I think of it, I'd love to hear judge judy's reponse...

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