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Should churches, pastors, or judges be sued for not wanting to perform a wedding ceremony?

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Apply any reason why this person chooses not do it.

Should people be able to force them to perform a ceremony?

by on Feb. 5, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Replies (171-180):
Peanutx3
by on Feb. 6, 2013 at 11:41 AM


Quoting romalove:


Quoting talia-mom:

They should be sued for something they may not be required by state law to do?


Quoting romalove:

This

Quoting Sekirei:

Churches or Pastors.. no

Judges, oui



I gave this some thought.  I looked to see if there was anyone who was required by law to perform marriage ceremonies if they were a public employee, and couldn't find a good answer, but the general consensus I saw was that they did not have to.  However, they didn't say anything about it being case by case, more like, people who are uncomfortable with marrying could choose not to officiate.

For sure, religious leaders have not been made, and should not be made, to marry anyone they don't wish to.  They are covered by First Amendment protection and no church should be made to accommodate anyone that doesn't fit with their religious beliefs and traditions.

Public employees are a different matter.  After giving it thought, I have come down with anyone who is cherry picking which ceremonies they choose to perform had best not be giving reasons for turning down officiating requests that are discriminatory.  Meaning, "I am busy that day" or "I can't fit that into my schedule" works for me.  "I don't marry homosexuals" does not.  

The question asked, though, had to do with lawsuit.  Anyone can sue anybody for anything.  The suit may be frivolous or with merit.  Can they win is the real question.

I think they "might" have a shot at it if the marriage in question is legal in the state in question and the person denying does so on grounds that fit within discrimination laws in that state.

This

Redwall
by Silver Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 7:14 PM

A church is a private entity, right?  They have the right to refuse.  No, I don't believe a pastor a judge should be sued.

DandJsGrandma
by Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 8:25 PM
Absolutely not. Churches follow The Bible as The Word of God. The Bible specifically states that marriage is the union between a Man & Woman. The church would therefore be hypocritical and against its core beliefs to marry a same-sex couple. It's that simple.
Healthystart30
by Silver Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 8:40 PM
No I don't think so, plus who would want someone so hateful to marry them?
Healthystart30
by Silver Member on Feb. 6, 2013 at 8:44 PM
Quoting DandJsGrandma:

Absolutely not. Churches follow The Bible as The Word of God. The Bible specifically states that marriage is the union between a Man & Woman. The church would therefore be hypocritical and against its core beliefs to marry a same-sex couple. It's that simple.



Well I disagree with you, there are priests that marry gays. Why don't you ask them why before calling them hypocritical? Christians are known for interpreting the bible the way they see fit, picking and chosing what suits their believes. They don't seem any more hypocritical then many other Christians.
MommaGreenhalge
by Bronze Member on Feb. 7, 2013 at 6:25 AM
Oh wow. I'm ashamed to say I grew up in Tangipahoa Parish, and I knew quite a few members of that family. Here's the thing: Yes, we all know that's ridiculous. Even though in the area where he lives, biracial children really aren't usually accepted by either side of their family, his stance is a continuation of that rather than an effort to change it. But he's not the only JoP around. It's not like there's no one else to go to. Why couldn't he just send them to someone else?


Quoting RainyDayLazy:

Like with this guy? Yup



Interracial Couple Denied Marriage License By Louisiana Justice Of The Peace

AP



(AP) NEW ORLEANS A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.

"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."

Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said.

Bardwell said he has discussed the topic with blacks and whites, along with witnessing some interracial marriages. He came to the conclusion that most of black society does not readily accept offspring of such relationships, and neither does white society, he said.

"There is a problem with both groups accepting a child from such a marriage," Bardwell said. "I think those children suffer and I won't help put them through it."

If he did an interracial marriage for one couple, he must do the same for all, he said.

"I try to treat everyone equally," he said.

Bardwell estimates that he has refused to marry about four couples during his career, all in the past 2 1/2 years.





Full story at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
jhslove
by Bronze Member on Feb. 7, 2013 at 6:27 AM

No, of course not. Although, I don't know why anyone would want to get married in a place of worship that feels that their marriage is invalid or unworthy......


sweet-a-kins
by Emerald Member on Feb. 7, 2013 at 6:55 AM

They already can refuse for any reason and they do.

My sister was turned down by one church because her and her fiance both had kids...

sweet-a-kins
by Emerald Member on Feb. 7, 2013 at 6:56 AM


Quote:

Quoting RainyDayLazy:

Like with this guy? Yup 



Interracial Couple Denied Marriage License By Louisiana Justice Of The Peace

AP



(AP) NEW ORLEANS A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.

"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."

Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said.

Bardwell said he has discussed the topic with blacks and whites, along with witnessing some interracial marriages. He came to the conclusion that most of black society does not readily accept offspring of such relationships, and neither does white society, he said.

"There is a problem with both groups accepting a child from such a marriage," Bardwell said. "I think those children suffer and I won't help put them through it."

If he did an interracial marriage for one couple, he must do the same for all, he said.

"I try to treat everyone equally," he said.

Bardwell estimates that he has refused to marry about four couples during his career, all in the past 2 1/2 years.





Full story at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html

He is a Justice of the Peace, NOT a church
sweet-a-kins
by Emerald Member on Feb. 7, 2013 at 6:57 AM

Because he is a JUSTICE of the PEACE and should refuse NO ONE he is NOT a CHURCH


United States

In some US states, the Justice of the Peace is a judge of a court of limited jurisdiction, a magistrate, or a quasi-judicial official with certain statutory or common law magisterial powers.

The Justice of the Peace typically presides over a court that hears misdemeanor cases, traffic violations, and other petty criminal infractions. The Justice of the Peace may also have authority over cases involving small debtslandlord and tenant disputes, or othersmall claims court proceedings. Proceedings before Justices of the Peace are often faster and less formal than the proceedings in other courts. In some jurisdictions a party convicted or found liable before a Justice of the Peace may have the right to a trial de novo before the judge of a higher court rather than an appeal strictly considered.

A Justice of the Peace also performs civil marriages. While states generally recognize marriages applied for under any relevant statutes and officiated under a religious leader or equivalent authority with adequate witnesses present, a Justice of the Peace can typically oversee a marriage union directly.

Some states have special qualifications or unique features for the office.

Quoting MommaGreenhalge:

Oh wow. I'm ashamed to say I grew up in Tangipahoa Parish, and I knew quite a few members of that family. Here's the thing: Yes, we all know that's ridiculous. Even though in the area where he lives, biracial children really aren't usually accepted by either side of their family, his stance is a continuation of that rather than an effort to change it. But he's not the only JoP around. It's not like there's no one else to go to. Why couldn't he just send them to someone else?


Quoting RainyDayLazy:

Like with this guy? Yup



Interracial Couple Denied Marriage License By Louisiana Justice Of The Peace

AP



(AP) NEW ORLEANS A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.

"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."

Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said.

Bardwell said he has discussed the topic with blacks and whites, along with witnessing some interracial marriages. He came to the conclusion that most of black society does not readily accept offspring of such relationships, and neither does white society, he said.

"There is a problem with both groups accepting a child from such a marriage," Bardwell said. "I think those children suffer and I won't help put them through it."

If he did an interracial marriage for one couple, he must do the same for all, he said.

"I try to treat everyone equally," he said.

Bardwell estimates that he has refused to marry about four couples during his career, all in the past 2 1/2 years.





Full story at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html


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