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Should churches, pastors, or judges be sued for not wanting to perform a wedding ceremony?

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Apply any reason why this person chooses not do it.

Should people be able to force them to perform a ceremony?

by on Feb. 5, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Replies (41-50):
romalove
by Roma on Feb. 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM
This

Quoting Sekirei:

Churches or Pastors.. no

Judges, oui

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DyerMaker
by Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Churches, yes they can refuse. Judges, not unless it is illegal. 

Aslen
by Silver Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:00 PM
What the hell part.of state law.do you not.understand?
No, they.should not be able to decline performing ssm based on personal feelings


Quoting talia-mom:

You don't seem to get that not all states require judges to perform ceremonies.   They can do it at their discretion.

if they state doesn't not require them to perform the ceremony, should they have to perform it?



Quoting Aslen:

If state law makes ssm legal, then judges have to perform them





Quoting talia-mom:

That doesn't answer the question of should they have to perform one if they aren't required by state law to do that.




Quoting Aslen:

Because the laws of the state supercede personal feelings. When a judge becomes a judge, they swear to uphold the laws of their state.








Quoting talia-mom:

That doesn't answer the question I asked.   If a judge is not required to perform the ceremony but can choose to perform it, should the judge be sued if they turn down the ceremony for whatever reason they want?





Quoting IntactivistMama:

Judges should follow the law. Period.











Quoting talia-mom:

Even if they are not required to do it.?







Quoting IntactivistMama:

Bible thumpers: no









Judges should get into trouble though.





























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talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:02 PM

You don't seem to comprehend that judges aren't always required to perform ceremonies.


So, should she be sued?   She is refusing to perform ceremonies.




Texas Judge Tonya Parker cannot legally marry a woman in her state, so she refuses to perform any marriage ceremonies until there is equality. She finds it "oxymoronic" to perform a ceremony that cannot be performed for her.

Parker, an openly gay judge, told a group at a Stonewall Democrats of Dallas meeting Tuesday that when she turns a couple away, she uses it as an opportunity to teach them a lesson about marriage equality.

"I don't perform marriage ceremonies because we are in a state that does not have marriage equality and until it does, I'm not going to partially apply the law to one group of people that doesn't apply to another group of people," Parker said in a video of the Tuesday discussion. "And it's kind of oxymoronic for me to perform ceremonies that can't be performed for me, so I'm not going to do it."

A spokeswoman for the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct said the commission had no comment.

Parker is the first LGBT person elected as a judge in Dallas County and she is believed to be the first openly LGBT African-American elected official in the state's history, according to the Dallas Voice.

Parker described examples of discrimination in the courtroom that she has seen and been able to stop.

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She once heard a case involving a man who allegedly molested a young boy in which a participant used the terms "homosexual" and "child molester" interchangeably.

"When a man molests a little girl, people don't call him heterosexual," Parker said in the video. "So, when this man molests this little boy, assuming [the] allegations to be true, you are not going to stand in my courtroom and call him a homosexual."

Another example she gave was the Texas Supreme Court's jury instruction that dictates that jurors cannot discuss cases with their husbands or wives.

"Well, I might have modified it a little bit," Parker said to her audience. "And I said, 'Do not discuss this case with your husband, your wife or your partner.'"

She said these are small ways of making her point but she believes it is important to go out of her way to do things that others in the LGBT community might not be able to do because they are not in her position of power.

"I want to help those folks to have dignity, in that moment that they are with me, to know that I see you," she said. "I see you."

Parker wrote in an emailed statement that performing marriage ceremonies is not her duty as a judge, but, rather, "a right and privilege" that she chooses not to exercise.

"I do not, and would never, impede any person's right to get married," Parker wrote. "In fact, when people wander into my courtroom, usually while I am presiding over other matters, I direct them to the judges in the courthouse who do perform marriage ceremonies.

"I do this because I believe in the right of people to marry and pursue happiness," she wrote.

Parker has said in the video that her goal as a judge is to "make sure laws are applied equally to everyone who comes to court and that we take the opportunity to put issues on people's radar's that might not otherwise be there."

Seven states allow gay marriage and Maryland would become next one if the governor signs recently passed bill, as he has promised to do next week.


Quoting Aslen:

What the hell part.of state law.do you not.understand?
No, they.should not be able to decline performing ssm based on personal feelings


Quoting talia-mom:

You don't seem to get that not all states require judges to perform ceremonies.   They can do it at their discretion.

if they state doesn't not require them to perform the ceremony, should they have to perform it?



Quoting Aslen:

If state law makes ssm legal, then judges have to perform them





Quoting talia-mom:

That doesn't answer the question of should they have to perform one if they aren't required by state law to do that.




Quoting Aslen:

Because the laws of the state supercede personal feelings. When a judge becomes a judge, they swear to uphold the laws of their state.








Quoting talia-mom:

That doesn't answer the question I asked.   If a judge is not required to perform the ceremony but can choose to perform it, should the judge be sued if they turn down the ceremony for whatever reason they want?





Quoting IntactivistMama:

Judges should follow the law. Period.











Quoting talia-mom:

Even if they are not required to do it.?







Quoting IntactivistMama:

Bible thumpers: no









Judges should get into trouble though.































talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:03 PM

They should be sued for something they may not be required by state law to do?


Quoting romalove:

This

Quoting Sekirei:

Churches or Pastors.. no

Judges, oui



UpSheRises
by Platinum Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM

 It's a service provided by the court. You don't pick and choose which citizens you serve and which you don't, you do whats on your docket.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.

 

Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.

 

 


 

frogbender
by Captain Underpants on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM


Oh for the love of idiocy. Would you prefer just whichever state official it is that is required to perform marriages then? Such as the Justice of the Peace. If it is a requirement of a state official's job, be he a judge or justice of the peace or minister of magic, then they should uphold the duties of their office with impartiality according to the laws of the state without bias. Period. Let's not be stupid.

And why are state officials being lumped with private entities? Sheesh.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.


Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.





talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Actually, in many states it is a voluntary thing.

It is something they can perform, but do not have to perform.


Quoting UpSheRises:

 It's a service provided by the court. You don't pick and choose which citizens you serve and which you don't, you do whats on your docket.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.


Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.







talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM

That is what I have been saying, if it is not part of their official duties, but just something they can choose to do, then can they pick and choose without someone wanting to sue them?


Quoting frogbender:


Oh for the love of idiocy. Would you prefer just whichever state official it is that is required to perform marriages then? Such as the Justice of the Peace. If it is a requirement of a state official's job, be he a judge or justice of the peace or minister of magic, then they should uphold the duties of their office with impartiality according to the laws of the state without bias. Period. Let's not be stupid.

And why are state officials being lumped with private entities? Sheesh.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.


Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.







coolmommy2x
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:11 PM
If they are being paid to do something and don't do it, yes, they should be sued or reprimanded in some way. If congregants go to a pastor to be married and he doesn't want to, there should a consequence since he's not doing his job. If the couple is gay, they're still church members and should be treated as such.
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