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Should churches, pastors, or judges be sued for not wanting to perform a wedding ceremony?

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Apply any reason why this person chooses not do it.

Should people be able to force them to perform a ceremony?

by on Feb. 5, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Replies (51-60):
frogbender
by Captain Underpants on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM


Every, and I repeat, every, state has an official whose job it is to provide marriages, be it a judge or someone with another title. It is not something they can choose to do. Period. They have to abide by the laws of their state, whether it goes against their beliefs or not. Period. They cannot pick and choose. If the state says that a homosexual couple can be married, the official of the state cannot refuse to marry that couple. If they refuse, I think that the couple should sue them for discrimination and the official should lose their job. 

However, if it is not a state law that homosexual couples may be wed, then the official has to abide by the state law. Period. Judges or justices of the peace have absolutely no business being lumped in with churches and pastors, as they work for the public. What is so hard to understand about this?

Quoting talia-mom:

That is what I have been saying, if it is not part of their official duties, but just something they can choose to do, then can they pick and choose without someone wanting to sue them?


Quoting frogbender:


Oh for the love of idiocy. Would you prefer just whichever state official it is that is required to perform marriages then? Such as the Justice of the Peace. If it is a requirement of a state official's job, be he a judge or justice of the peace or minister of magic, then they should uphold the duties of their office with impartiality according to the laws of the state without bias. Period. Let's not be stupid.

And why are state officials being lumped with private entities? Sheesh.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.


Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.









talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:15 PM

Some states also have officials who can perform the ceremonies but are not legally required to do that.

I guess I should have asked the initial question differently.   If you can perform the ceremony but are not required to, should someone be able to sue you if you refuse to perform for whatever reason.




Quoting frogbender:


Every, and I repeat, every, state has an official whose job it is to provide marriages, be it a judge or someone with another title. It is not something they can choose to do. Period. They have to abide by the laws of their state, whether it goes against their beliefs or not. Period. They cannot pick and choose. If the state says that a homosexual couple can be married, the official of the state cannot refuse to marry that couple. If they refuse, I think that the couple should sue them for discrimination and the official should lose their job. 

However, if it is not a state law that homosexual couples may be wed, then the official has to abide by the state law. Period. Judges or justices of the peace have absolutely no business being lumped in with churches and pastors, as they work for the public. What is so hard to understand about this?

Quoting talia-mom:

That is what I have been saying, if it is not part of their official duties, but just something they can choose to do, then can they pick and choose without someone wanting to sue them?


Quoting frogbender:


Oh for the love of idiocy. Would you prefer just whichever state official it is that is required to perform marriages then? Such as the Justice of the Peace. If it is a requirement of a state official's job, be he a judge or justice of the peace or minister of magic, then they should uphold the duties of their office with impartiality according to the laws of the state without bias. Period. Let's not be stupid.

And why are state officials being lumped with private entities? Sheesh.

Quoting talia-mom:

But not all states require judges to perform these ceremonies.  They are authorized to perform them but not required.


Quoting UpSheRises:

Judges...yeah. They are public employees, thier personal opinions are irrelevant.

Anyone else, nope.











talia-mom
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:18 PM

So will anyone answer the question should the Texas judge be sued for not performing ceremonies?

lizzielouaf
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:18 PM
Judges do not have to officiate a marriage. Judges will if they can or want to and it's not a required part of their job. Why do "you" think you can just approach any judge and demand they marry you?
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yourspecialkid
by Platinum Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:20 PM

 I deleted my answer and am starting over...I totally mixed up the answer.

I do not think you should be suable if your objection is a religious one.  PERIOD.  The Constitution protects freedom of religion....it does not do squat for marriage.

 

soonergirl980
by Silver Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:20 PM

No.

frogbender
by Captain Underpants on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:30 PM

Personally, the judge should be removed from duty, as it is legal for straight couples to be married in Texas and this is discrimination, no matter how worthy the cause. Also, please find some documentation for requirements on marriages by judges, who are considered civil servants. Here, it is part of the magistrate's duties to perform wedding ceremonies.

Quoting talia-mom:

So will anyone answer the question should the Texas judge be sued for not performing ceremonies?



ambermario4ever
by Bronze Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:31 PM

No they have the right to refuse service to anyone they choose. 

RainyDayLazy
by Rainy on Feb. 5, 2013 at 5:48 PM
Like with this guy? Yup

Interracial Couple Denied Marriage License By Louisiana Justice Of The Peace
AP

(AP) NEW ORLEANS A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."
Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said.
Bardwell said he has discussed the topic with blacks and whites, along with witnessing some interracial marriages. He came to the conclusion that most of black society does not readily accept offspring of such relationships, and neither does white society, he said.
"There is a problem with both groups accepting a child from such a marriage," Bardwell said. "I think those children suffer and I won't help put them through it."
If he did an interracial marriage for one couple, he must do the same for all, he said.
"I try to treat everyone equally," he said.
Bardwell estimates that he has refused to marry about four couples during his career, all in the past 2 1/2 years.


Full story at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html
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momtoscott
by Gold Member on Feb. 5, 2013 at 6:02 PM

 Within their own church they can be as discriminatory as they please.  If it is outside their church, as in a preacher who is also a town official who can give out a marriage license, discrimination based on religious philosophy/personal bigotry merits a lawsuit. 

In the case of people with businesses that (for example) sell wedding cakes to the public, but  refuse to sell wedding cakes to gay couples, or interracial couples, or overweight couples, etc., because the union is "offensive":  if the law of the state specifically prohibits discrimination of this kind, the rejected customers can and should sue.    

And while I don't think churches and ministers should be sued, I'm dandy with churches being subject to the same kind of protests that naturally arise when people are jerks to others.  That is, those who are treated badly get to complain to anyone who wants to listen, and people who want to stop supporting the church with their tithes can and should. 

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