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Do you believe he can change? 


This debate really interests me. Mainly because i have such an unpopular opinion :P 


I believe ANYONE can change. 

I do believe there are people out there who will not and cannot change. 


But I dont agree when i see people say 'Abusive men cant change' 

Because that is not true, they can and have. not all certainly. And probably not even most. 


but to say that ALL abusive men are doomed to escalate and become a killer, is just extremist, and not true IMO


What are your thoughts? 

by on Feb. 8, 2013 at 7:30 PM
Replies (31-40):
randi1978
by Bronze Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 9:27 AM

I think they can, if they want to (most don't)

I don't believe all will escalate to murder.

But in the grand scheme of things, when you have yourself and your children to worry about, saving an abusive marriage is not in the cards.  Leave. 

IandLoveandYou
by Bronze Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 9:46 AM
2 moms liked this

While my opinion is probably biased.. I do have one lol.

I don't think that all abusive men are doomed to escalate and become a killer, but I think that a lot of abusive men have the potential to become a killer.. even accidentally. Not all abusers are going to take a gun and shoot their victim, but when my ex-husband tried to strangle me he couldn't.. but internal swelling can lead to death up to 3 days later. And even though he never did try anything like it before.. I never went to divorce hearings alone because of a terrible fear I had of him shooting me on my way inside of something of that nature. Okay I'm side tracking..

Abusive men may be able to get better with enough counseling and therapy.. they would need to be willing to work on it for the rest of their lives.. much like people who suffer from addiction have to be aware of that their entire lives, even years after recovery. That alone is hard enough.. most if not all abusive men are extremely narcissistic, which makes it nearly impossible for them to grasp the fact that there is something wrong with them that they need to consciously work on forever.

Abuse isn't just punching a woman in the face, and it's not just calling her a stupid bitch. It's about power, manipulation, and control. Men have gotten through counseling and come out with the kind of discipline they need to never physically harm a woman again, or maybe even call her a name. But to be completely truly CHANGED they would have to:

  • Admit fully to everything they have done. (this alone is very difficult, as even the most remorseful abusers can find justification for his actions "I should never have called her a bitch and punched the wall, but if she hadn't...)
     
  • Stopping excuses
  • Stop all of blaming victim
  • Make amends (meaning saying, and staying "sorry" regardless of whether those you hurt want to repair their relationship with you or not).
  • Accepting responsibility (recognizing that abusing is a CHOICE not blaming it on a loss of self-control)
  • Identify patterns of controlling behavior, admitting their wrongness
  • Identify the attitudes that drive his abuse
  • Accepting that changing abuse will take DECADES.. and not declaring themself "cured" after a year or so of treatment.
  • Not starting to say "Now it's your turn to do the work"/ not using his change as a bargaining chip.
  • Not treating change as a chip or voucher to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (ie. "I haven't done anything like this in a long time, so why are you making a big deal about it?)
  • Developing kind, respectful, supportive behaviors
  • Carrying his weight
  • Sharing power
  • Changing how he is highly heated in conflicts
  • Changing how he responds to his partner (or former partners) anger or grievances.
  • Changing his parenting
  • Changing his treatment of her as a parent
  • Changing his attitude towards females in general
  • Accepting the consequences of his actions (Including not feeling sorry for himself about those consequences and not blaming her or the children for them.)


(I got this list from a book I have: "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft Ph.D, who has spent his career counseling and holding work shops for hundreds of abusive men - - I should add that he remarks several times in his book that he has never seen an abusive man be 100% successful in his treatment without relapsing back into his old ways.. even if they are a "lighter version" of the behaviors.)

Most abusers don't make it all the way through this process because they feel after a few months they have changed enough, the remorsful "stage" for an abuser doesn't last very long. Also.... it's easy to be abusive.. they get to hold the power, they get their way (because others are afraid of him), they always have someone to take their anger and frustration out on, being the center of attention, financial control, double standards that already are set (for example.. men "have needs" but women are "whores")...the list goes on.

Sad but true enough.. I don't think that abusive men change.

Whaaaaaa....O.o
by on Feb. 9, 2013 at 9:58 AM
Quoting ruggy03:

WOW why do I always feel like the bitch on here.abuse is abuse mental,physical,emotional.any man who has those traits have those traits.is it worth the risk?great for a few years then snap...I dont believe people change i think they adapt to their surroundings and appease but change No....I know BOOOOO RUGGY



There were days I WISHED my ex would just hit me. Then I would have physical proof and a reason others would believe me to leave him. Emotional abuse is so hard to prove.
JP-StrongForTwo
by on Feb. 9, 2013 at 10:36 AM
1 mom liked this

And i hope that people DO take these stories and learn from them.

I think its wrong to give up on a human being, because he has made a mistake, even if that mistake was HUGE. He STILL deserves the same help available to all mentally ill people. 


Quoting Debmomto2girls:

Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:


That is rare an quite frankly hard to believe that some as emotionally abusive as your dh gets better because his parents confront him and you cry.

I hope no one reads this and thinks its okay to stay in an abusive relationship because they think it might work for them.


JP-StrongForTwo
by on Feb. 9, 2013 at 10:37 AM

*hugs* you are very brave for sharing this. thank you! 

Quoting IandLoveandYou:

While my opinion is probably biased.. I do have one lol.

I don't think that all abusive men are doomed to escalate and become a killer, but I think that a lot of abusive men have the potential to become a killer.. even accidentally. Not all abusers are going to take a gun and shoot their victim, but when my ex-husband tried to strangle me he couldn't.. but internal swelling can lead to death up to 3 days later. And even though he never did try anything like it before.. I never went to divorce hearings alone because of a terrible fear I had of him shooting me on my way inside of something of that nature. Okay I'm side tracking..

Abusive men may be able to get better with enough counseling and therapy.. they would need to be willing to work on it for the rest of their lives.. much like people who suffer from addiction have to be aware of that their entire lives, even years after recovery. That alone is hard enough.. most if not all abusive men are extremely narcissistic, which makes it nearly impossible for them to grasp the fact that there is something wrong with them that they need to consciously work on forever.

Abuse isn't just punching a woman in the face, and it's not just calling her a stupid bitch. It's about power, manipulation, and control. Men have gotten through counseling and come out with the kind of discipline they need to never physically harm a woman again, or maybe even call her a name. But to be completely truly CHANGED they would have to:

  • Admit fully to everything they have done. (this alone is very difficult, as even the most remorseful abusers can find justification for his actions "I should never have called her a bitch and punched the wall, but if she hadn't...)
     
  • Stopping excuses
  • Stop all of blaming victim
  • Make amends (meaning saying, and staying "sorry" regardless of whether those you hurt want to repair their relationship with you or not).
  • Accepting responsibility (recognizing that abusing is a CHOICE not blaming it on a loss of self-control)
  • Identify patterns of controlling behavior, admitting their wrongness
  • Identify the attitudes that drive his abuse
  • Accepting that changing abuse will take DECADES.. and not declaring themself "cured" after a year or so of treatment.
  • Not starting to say "Now it's your turn to do the work"/ not using his change as a bargaining chip.
  • Not treating change as a chip or voucher to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (ie. "I haven't done anything like this in a long time, so why are you making a big deal about it?)
  • Developing kind, respectful, supportive behaviors
  • Carrying his weight
  • Sharing power
  • Changing how he is highly heated in conflicts
  • Changing how he responds to his partner (or former partners) anger or grievances.
  • Changing his parenting
  • Changing his treatment of her as a parent
  • Changing his attitude towards females in general
  • Accepting the consequences of his actions (Including not feeling sorry for himself about those consequences and not blaming her or the children for them.)


(I got this list from a book I have: "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft Ph.D, who has spent his career counseling and holding work shops for hundreds of abusive men - - I should add that he remarks several times in his book that he has never seen an abusive man be 100% successful in his treatment without relapsing back into his old ways.. even if they are a "lighter version" of the behaviors.)

Most abusers don't make it all the way through this process because they feel after a few months they have changed enough, the remorsful "stage" for an abuser doesn't last very long. Also.... it's easy to be abusive.. they get to hold the power, they get their way (because others are afraid of him), they always have someone to take their anger and frustration out on, being the center of attention, financial control, double standards that already are set (for example.. men "have needs" but women are "whores")...the list goes on.

Sad but true enough.. I don't think that abusive men change.


Mommy2BeAmy
by Silver Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Maybe our cultures are too different fr you to understand, but our religion mandates loyalty to your parents before anyone else. Also our culture is very respectful to elders, it's hard to explain. Maybe I landed with the right guy who was able to change with a little effort. Plus, I never even gave you example of how emotionally abusive he was so who are you to try to put him on a scale by saying "as emotionally abusive as your husband". For me it took one time, I didn't do it alone, I surrounded myself with the people he loves. It took their anger and disappointment and I was able to really let go and let him have it to make him realize. 

Its not this easy for everyone therefore different methods should be done. But the way my husband and I grew up, I knew what would make him melt and used it. Sorry if its not this easy for you.

i hope everyone reads this and knows that people can change with even a little effort if you know, find and hit their emotions just right.

Quoting Debmomto2girls:

Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:


That is rare an quite frankly hard to believe that some as emotionally abusive as your dh gets better because his parents confront him and you cry.

I hope no one reads this and thinks its okay to stay in an abusive relationship because they think it might work for them.



Debmomto2girls
by Platinum Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 11:10 AM
1 mom liked this
Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:


Thousands of women die at the hands of
abusers, thousands more suffer. I think it is irresponsible and wrong to tell anyone they should stay and try to work it out.

You leave. Period.

Bieg9093
by Bronze Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 11:11 AM

 In a nutshell, I think abusive men have the capacity to learn.  But it would require the right woman to teach.  And the women who have the capacity to teach would not waste their time with abusive men.

thickmamaof2
by Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 11:11 AM
My dad changed!
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Debmomto2girls
by Platinum Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 11:12 AM
Quoting JP-StrongForTwo:


I think it is dead wrong to tell any woman to not
give up on an abusers. That's how they wins up dead or their children.

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