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Is this the beginning of guns being removed from citizens, or is it a smart step to protecting people from mentally unstable people?

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SALT LAKE CITY — A new bill being considered in the Utah State Legislature would let people get guns out of their homes to avoid incidences of gun violence.

Rep. Dixon Pitcher’s HB121 creates a “safe harbor” where people can voluntarily surrender their firearms to local police for up to 60 days.

“You can deposit the gun, short term, to get through an emergency,” said Pitcher, R-Ogden. “That’s what the safe harbor bill does for firearms.”

Pitcher said police would register the gun and keep it safe.

“It provides a platform if there’s emergencies in a family — let’s say there’s somebody who feels like they’re suicidal or they have someone with a mental illness or a mental dispute or some type of emergency,” said Pitcher. “Under the conditions we have right now, this is a good time to get the firearm out of the house.”

Pitcher said the bill came out of the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting. The Ogden lawmaker wondered if circumstances could have changed if the shooter’s mother had been able to get her guns out of the home, like his bill would do.

“It saves lives,” he said.

Clark Aposhian of the Utah Shooting Sports Council said he liked the bill “in concept,” but said he had concerns with the bill. He wanted to ensure that no one was surrendering someone else’s firearm. Pitcher said his bill would not allow police to accept someone else’s gun.

Aposhian said he also had concerns about a provision in the bill that allowed police to keep the firearm if it went unclaimed after a certain period of time.

“Let’s see if we can get something in the statute that yes, protects someone who may be temporarily despondent and shouldn’t have access to a firearm, but protects their rights as well,” he said.

HB121 is expected to have a hearing in the coming weeks

by on Feb. 9, 2013 at 1:36 AM
Replies (41-49):
EireLass
by Ruby Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 5:53 PM

That's such a sad and hard situation. They say physical abuse really starts emotionally, and the 'victim' is basically owned by the person, in all ways.

I don't mean to have to go down a painful memory path, if you don't want. But when you had HER hospitalized, I'm assuming it was for mental issues. What did they ever come up with as a diagnosis for a person who does this?

Quoting LauraKW:

I don't think she became physical until after we all grew up and left the house. I'm not positive but I also believe they were both older, maybe 60 or so. I wouldn't swear to that but that is when we started noticing the bruises and such. There were plausible excuses for a long time - he fell (he has Parkinson's), a motor he was working on slipped and partially fell on his chest. it started to become more overt through the years and we had her hospitalized several times. Dad would never leave her, he would still be there if we hadnt removed him. Or he would be dead. They have been married over 50 years, lived in that same spot for nearly 40 years.
Quoting EireLass:

And growing up was this 'the secret'? You just hid it from the rest of the world? Did Dad leave? Oh boy....I know all to well about living in chaotic families.

Quoting LauraKW:

If only... In my family my mother was the abuser. She nearly killed my father.
Quoting EireLass:

I wish more had the guts to leave/run away.

Quoting LauraKW:

My thought was of the abused turning in his / her spouse's weapon as they are making a run for it. She isn't going back for the gun and the husband would likely have to answer a lot of questions if he tried to get it back. We took the guns away from a violent family member. It slowed her down but didn't stop her getting more.
Quoting EireLass:

If there are no reports of domestic violence between that husband/wife, and no restraining order in place, there's no legal reason not to give them back to her.If she is already a victim of DV, chances are she's not going to get rid of his guns, she knows what he would do to her if he found them missing. Remember most DV cases are not reported.

Quoting LauraKW:

If a person goes to the police with a gun and says "My spouse is going to kill me with this if you don't take it" the police will not refuse to take that weapon. The difference being in this instance that gun will likely not be returned.
Quoting Jack_Squat:

How? It's not likely an abuser will voluntarily surrender his/her guns, and their spouse won't be legally able to because it doesn't belong to them.

Quoting lizzielouaf:

I could see where this would be of great use in domestic violence and abuse situations.


LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Feb. 9, 2013 at 6:06 PM
It is actually cathartic to talk about at this point. We were all mentally and emotionally abused. Yes, we had her hospitalized for mental issues. We knew we were fucked down that road when she actually had the staff at one of the hospitals believing her. She is very good. The only hard diagnosis she was given was Dementia with Delusions of Jealousy. This is from the hospital that believed and sympathized with her. We did not take her there again. She was too old for a Schizophrenia diagnosis which usually presents in the mid-20s. Not bi-polar. Blah blah blah. We - her children, which includes two Registered Nurses - believe she is a Sociopath. My mother is also an RN. She didn't respond to meds, even when she did take them, which wasn't long.

Quoting EireLass:

That's such a sad and hard situation. They say physical abuse really starts emotionally, and the 'victim' is basically owned by the person, in all ways.

I don't mean to have to go down a painful memory path, if you don't want. But when you had HER hospitalized, I'm assuming it was for mental issues. What did they ever come up with as a diagnosis for a person who does this?

Quoting LauraKW:

I don't think she became physical until after we all grew up and left the house. I'm not positive but I also believe they were both older, maybe 60 or so. I wouldn't swear to that but that is when we started noticing the bruises and such. There were plausible excuses for a long time - he fell (he has Parkinson's), a motor he was working on slipped and partially fell on his chest. it started to become more overt through the years and we had her hospitalized several times. Dad would never leave her, he would still be there if we hadnt removed him. Or he would be dead. They have been married over 50 years, lived in that same spot for nearly 40 years.

Quoting EireLass:

And growing up was this 'the secret'? You just hid it from the rest of the world? Did Dad leave? Oh boy....I know all to well about living in chaotic families.

Quoting LauraKW:

If only... In my family my mother was the abuser. She nearly killed my father.

Quoting EireLass:

I wish more had the guts to leave/run away.

Quoting LauraKW:

My thought was of the abused turning in his / her spouse's weapon as they are making a run for it. She isn't going back for the gun and the husband would likely have to answer a lot of questions if he tried to get it back. We took the guns away from a violent family member. It slowed her down but didn't stop her getting more.

Quoting EireLass:

If there are no reports of domestic violence between that husband/wife, and no restraining order in place, there's no legal reason not to give them back to her.If she is already a victim of DV, chances are she's not going to get rid of his guns, she knows what he would do to her if he found them missing. Remember most DV cases are not reported.

Quoting LauraKW:

If a person goes to the police with a gun and says "My spouse is going to kill me with this if you don't take it" the police will not refuse to take that weapon. The difference being in this instance that gun will likely not be returned.

Quoting Jack_Squat:

How? It's not likely an abuser will voluntarily surrender his/her guns, and their spouse won't be legally able to because it doesn't belong to them.

Quoting lizzielouaf:

I could see where this would be of great use in domestic violence and abuse situations.


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
MamiJaAyla
by Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 7:34 PM

I like it.  I makes sense to me. 

 

slashteddy
by Bronze Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 7:36 PM
This seems like a good compromise to me.
Euphoric
by Bazinga! on Feb. 9, 2013 at 7:37 PM

 This

Quoting FromAtoZ:

This is a choice and it is a good idea.

 

www.cafemom.com/group/116692
EireLass
by Ruby Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 7:52 PM

If she didn't respond to meds, does that mean that she had the wrong diagnosis/wrong meds? And what does 'not respond' mean? She continued to be abusive?

Quoting LauraKW:

It is actually cathartic to talk about at this point. We were all mentally and emotionally abused. Yes, we had her hospitalized for mental issues. We knew we were fucked down that road when she actually had the staff at one of the hospitals believing her. She is very good. The only hard diagnosis she was given was Dementia with Delusions of Jealousy. This is from the hospital that believed and sympathized with her. We did not take her there again. She was too old for a Schizophrenia diagnosis which usually presents in the mid-20s. Not bi-polar. Blah blah blah. We - her children, which includes two Registered Nurses - believe she is a Sociopath. My mother is also an RN. She didn't respond to meds, even when she did take them, which wasn't long.
Quoting EireLass:

That's such a sad and hard situation. They say physical abuse really starts emotionally, and the 'victim' is basically owned by the person, in all ways.I don't mean to have to go down a painful memory path, if you don't want. But when you had HER hospitalized, I'm assuming it was for mental issues. What did they ever come up with as a diagnosis for a person who does this?

Quoting LauraKW:

I don't think she became physical until after we all grew up and left the house. I'm not positive but I also believe they were both older, maybe 60 or so. I wouldn't swear to that but that is when we started noticing the bruises and such. There were plausible excuses for a long time - he fell (he has Parkinson's), a motor he was working on slipped and partially fell on his chest. it started to become more overt through the years and we had her hospitalized several times. Dad would never leave her, he would still be there if we hadnt removed him. Or he would be dead. They have been married over 50 years, lived in that same spot for nearly 40 years.
Quoting EireLass:

And growing up was this 'the secret'? You just hid it from the rest of the world? Did Dad leave? Oh boy....I know all to well about living in chaotic families.

Quoting LauraKW:

If only... In my family my mother was the abuser. She nearly killed my father.
Quoting EireLass:

I wish more had the guts to leave/run away.

Quoting LauraKW:

My thought was of the abused turning in his / her spouse's weapon as they are making a run for it. She isn't going back for the gun and the husband would likely have to answer a lot of questions if he tried to get it back. We took the guns away from a violent family member. It slowed her down but didn't stop her getting more.
Quoting EireLass:

If there are no reports of domestic violence between that husband/wife, and no restraining order in place, there's no legal reason not to give them back to her.If she is already a victim of DV, chances are she's not going to get rid of his guns, she knows what he would do to her if he found them missing. Remember most DV cases are not reported.

Quoting LauraKW:

If a person goes to the police with a gun and says "My spouse is going to kill me with this if you don't take it" the police will not refuse to take that weapon. The difference being in this instance that gun will likely not be returned.
Quoting Jack_Squat:

How? It's not likely an abuser will voluntarily surrender his/her guns, and their spouse won't be legally able to because it doesn't belong to them.

Quoting lizzielouaf:

I could see where this would be of great use in domestic violence and abuse situations.



BaronSamedi
by Bronze Member on Feb. 9, 2013 at 10:38 PM

  Bad idea!  It is confiscation.  It cannot be assured that someone else would take the gun to the police.  The police would have to return the gun not keep it.  It also opens the door to corruption especially if it was a rare of very popular model.  Gun violence is Dem for gun control. 

LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Feb. 10, 2013 at 1:07 PM
There are some conditions that are just not medically treatable. Mental issues will sometimes respond to medication. Depression, anxiety, bi-polar, schizophrenia - all can be treated medically but that doesn't mean you'll get the same results from each medication, if you get any result at all. She had no response to any medications. Yes, she continued to be abusive. If medication could cure abusiveness (is that a word?) then we could likely resolve most domestic violence issues in this country.

Quoting EireLass:

If she didn't respond to meds, does that mean that she had the wrong diagnosis/wrong meds? And what does 'not respond' mean? She continued to be abusive?

Quoting LauraKW:

It is actually cathartic to talk about at this point. We were all mentally and emotionally abused. Yes, we had her hospitalized for mental issues. We knew we were fucked down that road when she actually had the staff at one of the hospitals believing her. She is very good. The only hard diagnosis she was given was Dementia with Delusions of Jealousy. This is from the hospital that believed and sympathized with her. We did not take her there again. She was too old for a Schizophrenia diagnosis which usually presents in the mid-20s. Not bi-polar. Blah blah blah. We - her children, which includes two Registered Nurses - believe she is a Sociopath. My mother is also an RN. She didn't respond to meds, even when she did take them, which wasn't long.

Quoting EireLass:

That's such a sad and hard situation. They say physical abuse really starts emotionally, and the 'victim' is basically owned by the person, in all ways.I don't mean to have to go down a painful memory path, if you don't want. But when you had HER hospitalized, I'm assuming it was for mental issues. What did they ever come up with as a diagnosis for a person who does this?

Quoting LauraKW:

I don't think she became physical until after we all grew up and left the house. I'm not positive but I also believe they were both older, maybe 60 or so. I wouldn't swear to that but that is when we started noticing the bruises and such. There were plausible excuses for a long time - he fell (he has Parkinson's), a motor he was working on slipped and partially fell on his chest. it started to become more overt through the years and we had her hospitalized several times. Dad would never leave her, he would still be there if we hadnt removed him. Or he would be dead. They have been married over 50 years, lived in that same spot for nearly 40 years.

Quoting EireLass:

And growing up was this 'the secret'? You just hid it from the rest of the world? Did Dad leave? Oh boy....I know all to well about living in chaotic families.

Quoting LauraKW:

If only... In my family my mother was the abuser. She nearly killed my father.

Quoting EireLass:

I wish more had the guts to leave/run away.

Quoting LauraKW:

My thought was of the abused turning in his / her spouse's weapon as they are making a run for it. She isn't going back for the gun and the husband would likely have to answer a lot of questions if he tried to get it back. We took the guns away from a violent family member. It slowed her down but didn't stop her getting more.

Quoting EireLass:

If there are no reports of domestic violence between that husband/wife, and no restraining order in place, there's no legal reason not to give them back to her.If she is already a victim of DV, chances are she's not going to get rid of his guns, she knows what he would do to her if he found them missing. Remember most DV cases are not reported.

Quoting LauraKW:

If a person goes to the police with a gun and says "My spouse is going to kill me with this if you don't take it" the police will not refuse to take that weapon. The difference being in this instance that gun will likely not be returned.

Quoting Jack_Squat:

How? It's not likely an abuser will voluntarily surrender his/her guns, and their spouse won't be legally able to because it doesn't belong to them.

Quoting lizzielouaf:

I could see where this would be of great use in domestic violence and abuse situations.



Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Feb. 10, 2013 at 1:11 PM
Confiscation is when someone takes something away from another. How is turning in your own guns confiscation? If a family member turns in your guns (general you) then they are confiscating your gun, not the police.

Quoting BaronSamedi:

  Bad idea!  It is confiscation.  It cannot be assured that someone else would take the gun to the police.  The police would have to return the gun not keep it.  It also opens the door to corruption especially if it was a rare of very popular model.  Gun violence is Dem for gun control. 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
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