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NA Juries are Incapable of Trying White People Fairly says GOP Senator

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Top GOP Senator: Native American Juries Are Incapable Of Trying White People Fairly

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA)

INDIANOLA, Iowa — Republicans have offered a number of reasons why they oppose the Violence Against Women Act. Some think it’s unconstitutional. Others argue that it’s just a meaningless bill with apatriotic title.

On Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) added a new one: Native Americans supposedly aren’t capable of holding fair trials.

Last week, Grassley was one of just 22 senators—all Republican men—who voted against reauthorizing VAWA. During a town hall meeting in Indianola on Wednesday, a woman asked him to explain his vote. Grassley responded that the legislation is unconstitutional, a belief shared by at least five of his colleagues.

Since the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to a trial among a jury of peers, Grassley reasoned that white men would be deprived of their rights if those who were accused of violence against Native American women had to appear in a tribal court. “On an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right?” Grassley said. “So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.”

GRASSLEY: One provision that non-Native Americans can be tried in tribal court. And why is that a big thing? Because of the constitutionality of it, for two reasons. One, you know how the law is, that if you have a jury, the jury is supposed to be a reflection of society. [...] So you get non-Indians, let me say to make it easy, you get non-Indians going into a reservation and violating a woman. They need to be prosecuted. They aren’t prosecuted. So the idea behind [VAWA] is we’ll try them in tribal court. But under the laws of our land, you got to have a jury that is a reflection of society as a whole, and on an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right? So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.

Watch it:

There is actually no requirement that juries reflect “society as a whole.” The Sixth Amendment requires juries to be drawn from the “State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,” and Supreme Court decisions establish that criminal defendants also have a right to a jury which is “drawn from a fair cross section of the community,” where the trial court convenes to hear their case. But this does not entitle anyone to be tried by a jury that reflects the whole of American society.

A person who is tried in Vermont is likely to have an all-white jury because over 95 percent of Vermont is white. Similarly, a person who commits a crime in the Navajo Nation will face a jury of Native Americans because the population of the local community is made up of Navajo people. There is no reason to believe that Navajo jurors are any less impartial than white Vermonters, and Grassley is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Grassley went to great lengths to tell attendees that he had supported VAWA in the past. “I support 98 percent of what’s in the bill,” he said. If it weren’t for his belief that Native Americans’ are incapable of conducting a fair trial, perhaps he would have voted for it again.

If you want Congress to reauthorize VAWA, sign ThinkProgress’ petition here.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/21/1619501/chuck-grassley-native-americans/


by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Replies (31-40):
Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:40 AM

I don't understand how he thinks it's acceptable to make such a blanket statement about an entire group of people.

I laughed, though


stormcris
by Christy on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:10 AM
1 mom liked this

Ok while his words are of the most odoriferous ways of saying this, he may have a point under jury of your peers. What is a jury of your peers?At one time it meant if you were a farmer you would have a jury of farmers and so forth. 

The problem is there is no mention of jury of your peers in the constitution. So while he has a point about jury of your peers there is no guarantee to one.

Now then, tribal land is not US land and that we concede to tribal court for violations on that land is no different than any extradition. He is grasping at straws.

batmansgirl
by Bronze Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:17 AM
I want a source backing your claim that 86% of the perpetrators are non Native men. I don't believe it.

Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.



Wtf indeed.




Quoting Radarma:

 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!

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Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:21 AM
2 moms liked this

What disturbs me the most is why we keep having posts like this.  Makes me wonder for those that keep putting up posts that inflames the racial tensions already, what is their point?  For those that does this, makes me wonder why are they so obsessed with race?  We see posts about Blacks/AA....then posts about Whites..  Why such hatred for Whites people??? 

 Now I know some will say, "Oh I don't hate ALL White people".....that it isn't my point in posting this.  Yet, how can a White person here on CM NOT think it is?  How can a White person here, not feel uptight & horrible that once again it's the White race that is doing this.  Or with Black posts, how can they not think "ok here we go again, us bad black people"....Sounds to me there is a lot of hatred right here on CM, between Blacks & Whites.  Why?  Why when not everyone of a certain race thinks/feels the same way. 

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 

LNLMommy
by Queen K on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM
2 moms liked this

I think people are missing the crucial part that this is about Non-Natives which doesn't always equate to "white" or "black"...But I agree with the other poster about these elected officials are trying to kill this act because it doesn't have anything to do with them. Women needs protection acts-any woman who can argue otherwise is really delusional

batmansgirl
by Bronze Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:27 AM
Again SOURCE please.

Quoting krysstizzle:


Quoting Radarma:

 


Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.

More than 70% of the non-native rapes are by white men. 

Looks like some white men are doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves. 

The fact that you can hear numbers like this about native women and rape, hear the people who are committing these crimes tend to be white males, and what you latch onto is this crap? Jesus. Fucking ridiculous. 

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survivorinohio
by René on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:31 AM


Quoting krysstizzle:

Grrrr..

Ya, I will go with this

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


krysstizzle
by DeepThought on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:38 AM

You can not believe it all you want. The numbers vary (as statistics and surveys do), but the most conservative estimate I've seen is still 70%. 

Here are some sources to get you started (including some of the most conservative). I have more. 

Source

Source

Source

Source

Source 


Quoting batmansgirl:

I want a source backing your claim that 86% of the perpetrators are non Native men. I don't believe it.

Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.



Wtf indeed.




Quoting Radarma:

 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


krysstizzle
by DeepThought on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:41 AM
2 moms liked this

WHY we need to have posts like this? 

Native American women are raped and beat with impunity because of a fucked up situation where a non-native can come onto a reservation and NOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Native women are 2 1/2 times more likely than other women to be asssaulted. Most of that (around 80%, as an average of the stats) is by non-natives. And most of THAT is by white males. 

Now tell me we don't need to talk about this. It's abhorrant and disgusting. Did you know all of this before this post? If you did, great. But I'm willing to bet the majority of people (non-native) don't know this. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

What disturbs me the most is why we keep having posts like this.  Makes me wonder for those that keep putting up posts that inflames the racial tensions already, what is their point?  For those that does this, makes me wonder why are they so obsessed with race?  We see posts about Blacks/AA....then posts about Whites..  Why such hatred for Whites people??? 

 Now I know some will say, "Oh I don't hate ALL White people".....that it isn't my point in posting this.  Yet, how can a White person here on CM NOT think it is?  How can a White person here, not feel uptight & horrible that once again it's the White race that is doing this.  Or with Black posts, how can they not think "ok here we go again, us bad black people"....Sounds to me there is a lot of hatred right here on CM, between Blacks & Whites.  Why?  Why when not everyone of a certain race thinks/feels the same way. 

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 


krysstizzle
by DeepThought on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:43 AM
4 moms liked this

It just makes me fucking ill that people can read about the atrocities allowed to go unpunished and STILL be fucking worried about "oh the poor, downtrodden white man". Jesus fucking christ. I can't even wrap my head around that kind of fucked up stupid. 

Shit fuck fuck.


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