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NA Juries are Incapable of Trying White People Fairly says GOP Senator

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Top GOP Senator: Native American Juries Are Incapable Of Trying White People Fairly

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA)

INDIANOLA, Iowa — Republicans have offered a number of reasons why they oppose the Violence Against Women Act. Some think it’s unconstitutional. Others argue that it’s just a meaningless bill with apatriotic title.

On Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) added a new one: Native Americans supposedly aren’t capable of holding fair trials.

Last week, Grassley was one of just 22 senators—all Republican men—who voted against reauthorizing VAWA. During a town hall meeting in Indianola on Wednesday, a woman asked him to explain his vote. Grassley responded that the legislation is unconstitutional, a belief shared by at least five of his colleagues.

Since the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to a trial among a jury of peers, Grassley reasoned that white men would be deprived of their rights if those who were accused of violence against Native American women had to appear in a tribal court. “On an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right?” Grassley said. “So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.”

GRASSLEY: One provision that non-Native Americans can be tried in tribal court. And why is that a big thing? Because of the constitutionality of it, for two reasons. One, you know how the law is, that if you have a jury, the jury is supposed to be a reflection of society. [...] So you get non-Indians, let me say to make it easy, you get non-Indians going into a reservation and violating a woman. They need to be prosecuted. They aren’t prosecuted. So the idea behind [VAWA] is we’ll try them in tribal court. But under the laws of our land, you got to have a jury that is a reflection of society as a whole, and on an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right? So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.

Watch it:

There is actually no requirement that juries reflect “society as a whole.” The Sixth Amendment requires juries to be drawn from the “State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,” and Supreme Court decisions establish that criminal defendants also have a right to a jury which is “drawn from a fair cross section of the community,” where the trial court convenes to hear their case. But this does not entitle anyone to be tried by a jury that reflects the whole of American society.

A person who is tried in Vermont is likely to have an all-white jury because over 95 percent of Vermont is white. Similarly, a person who commits a crime in the Navajo Nation will face a jury of Native Americans because the population of the local community is made up of Navajo people. There is no reason to believe that Navajo jurors are any less impartial than white Vermonters, and Grassley is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Grassley went to great lengths to tell attendees that he had supported VAWA in the past. “I support 98 percent of what’s in the bill,” he said. If it weren’t for his belief that Native Americans’ are incapable of conducting a fair trial, perhaps he would have voted for it again.

If you want Congress to reauthorize VAWA, sign ThinkProgress’ petition here.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/21/1619501/chuck-grassley-native-americans/


by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Replies (121-129):
KreatingMe
by Silver Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM
3 moms liked this

My first thought reading this, is the application of this bill on tribal land is only one small part of the bigger picture. More of these crimes ( crimes against women)  are going to happen off of tribal land than on because  tribal land makes up such a small percentage. While I understand that there's a disproportionate number of rapes happening on tribal it's still got to be smaller than society in general. ?  This senator looked for something " unconstitutional " because that's a favorite republican hot button issue, to hang his objection because it sounds a lot better than just admitting he's a chauvinistic fuck who doesn't care about women at all. That's what I think. 

Furthermore, if anyone is dumb fuck enough to commit a crime on tribal land then they ought to pay the consequences of those people. That sounds fair to me. 

mommajen32
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:31 PM


Quoting ChancesMommy07:

Like I said on FB, How do they keep getting elected? 

I grabbed this from your page mama. Native issues are not discussed enough and because of that these things can slip through, no one bats an eye ...or even knows they happen. 

I was hoping Txmom or some other NA moms would chime in. I would love to learn more. 

turtle68
by Mahinaarangi on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:39 PM

 

Quoting krysstizzle:

It just makes me fucking ill that people can read about the atrocities allowed to go unpunished and STILL be fucking worried about "oh the poor, downtrodden white man". Jesus fucking christ. I can't even wrap my head around that kind of fucked up stupid. 

Shit fuck fuck.


 Its incredibly saddening....but IMO shows the character of said poster :-(

jllcali
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:15 PM
I didn't say she was bashing him. I separated the sentences to avoid making it seem I was. I was not successful, lol.

Do you really think if Obama started forcing federal prosecutors to prosecute these rapes that it would be greeted warmly by his detractors? At best, they would say he is just wasting more money when the economy is so bad. At worst, well the sky's the limit. I didn't even vote for him, I don't like him, but there are some people that are so consumed with hatred for the man that I just want to give him a hug. (I am not talking about people in this post)


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Obama is Pres NOW. She was not bashing him by pointing out that HE should be doing something to fix HIS Administration ignoring the problem. Nobody else is in the WH right now. It is getting utterly pathetic how ANY criticism of Obama is met with excuses about what previous Presidents did or did not do and cries about not "bashing" him.




Quoting jllcali:

I'm not saying he shouldn't. I'm just pointing out that the problem has been long standing.





I get sick of all the bashing of Obama for stuff that other presidents have also been guilty of doing. Or the bashing him for things he wasn't responsible for, for example the Lifeline program. I am talking about in general, not just on CM. I didn't even vote for him.






Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

SO it was wrong for all other Administrations not to make a change, but since they didn't, well, Obama's shouldn't have to either and it is magically OKAY that THEY don't?








Quoting jllcali:

This has been an issue many many years before Obama became president. I know this was an issue when Reagan was president. Federal prosecutors just don't give a fuck about native women getting raped. Or crimes against natives in general.









Quoting Carpy:

A non native committing a crime on reservations is a federal offense.  Why is the Attorney generals office not doing THEIR job?  Why is this an issue Obama ignores?

Quoting krysstizzle:

The vast majority of attacks are by non natives. Non natives cannot be prosecuted by tribes, because of federal law. That's the point of the bill.











Quoting soonergirl980:


Native American women are far more at risk to be attacked and unprotected in their own communities. Their communities do not do a good job of protecting or prosecuting when it's within the tribe why would we trust that they will do a good job when it's an outsider?







Quoting mikiemom:

Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.












Posted on CafeMom Mobile
glitterteaz
by Ruby Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Really this is what represents the right? WOW!!!!

LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Feb. 23, 2013 at 3:15 AM
I do not care what his detractors OR his supporters would think about it, I am saying it is what needs to be done and is the right way to address the issue at hand.


Quoting jllcali:

I didn't say she was bashing him. I separated the sentences to avoid making it seem I was. I was not successful, lol.



Do you really think if Obama started forcing federal prosecutors to prosecute these rapes that it would be greeted warmly by his detractors? At best, they would say he is just wasting more money when the economy is so bad. At worst, well the sky's the limit. I didn't even vote for him, I don't like him, but there are some people that are so consumed with hatred for the man that I just want to give him a hug. (I am not talking about people in this post)




Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Obama is Pres NOW. She was not bashing him by pointing out that HE should be doing something to fix HIS Administration ignoring the problem. Nobody else is in the WH right now. It is getting utterly pathetic how ANY criticism of Obama is met with excuses about what previous Presidents did or did not do and cries about not "bashing" him.






Quoting jllcali:

I'm not saying he shouldn't. I'm just pointing out that the problem has been long standing.







I get sick of all the bashing of Obama for stuff that other presidents have also been guilty of doing. Or the bashing him for things he wasn't responsible for, for example the Lifeline program. I am talking about in general, not just on CM. I didn't even vote for him.








Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

SO it was wrong for all other Administrations not to make a change, but since they didn't, well, Obama's shouldn't have to either and it is magically OKAY that THEY don't?










Quoting jllcali:

This has been an issue many many years before Obama became president. I know this was an issue when Reagan was president. Federal prosecutors just don't give a fuck about native women getting raped. Or crimes against natives in general.











Quoting Carpy:

A non native committing a crime on reservations is a federal offense.  Why is the Attorney generals office not doing THEIR job?  Why is this an issue Obama ignores?

Quoting krysstizzle:

The vast majority of attacks are by non natives. Non natives cannot be prosecuted by tribes, because of federal law. That's the point of the bill.













Quoting soonergirl980:


Native American women are far more at risk to be attacked and unprotected in their own communities. Their communities do not do a good job of protecting or prosecuting when it's within the tribe why would we trust that they will do a good job when it's an outsider?








Quoting mikiemom:

Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.














Posted on CafeMom Mobile
ChancesMommy07
by Silver Member on Feb. 23, 2013 at 8:37 AM


Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting ChancesMommy07:

Like I said on FB, How do they keep getting elected? 

I grabbed this from your page mama. Native issues are not discussed enough and because of that these things can slip through, no one bats an eye ...or even knows they happen. 

I was hoping Txmom or some other NA moms would chime in. I would love to learn more. 

I haven't seen any of them in here in a long time either. I rarely post in this group anymore. We don't live on a reservation so I can't speak to how things are done on them but we know from having family that does that violence against Native Women is happening whether people want to admit it or not. Hell, I had a man grab me at a pow-wow and attempt some very inappropriate touching while rambling about giving the "squaw a little white meat".

jllcali
by on Feb. 23, 2013 at 8:49 AM
You're right about that.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

I do not care what his detractors OR his supporters would think about it, I am saying it is what needs to be done and is the right way to address the issue at hand.




Quoting jllcali:

I didn't say she was bashing him. I separated the sentences to avoid making it seem I was. I was not successful, lol.





Do you really think if Obama started forcing federal prosecutors to prosecute these rapes that it would be greeted warmly by his detractors? At best, they would say he is just wasting more money when the economy is so bad. At worst, well the sky's the limit. I didn't even vote for him, I don't like him, but there are some people that are so consumed with hatred for the man that I just want to give him a hug. (I am not talking about people in this post)






Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Obama is Pres NOW. She was not bashing him by pointing out that HE should be doing something to fix HIS Administration ignoring the problem. Nobody else is in the WH right now. It is getting utterly pathetic how ANY criticism of Obama is met with excuses about what previous Presidents did or did not do and cries about not "bashing" him.








Quoting jllcali:

I'm not saying he shouldn't. I'm just pointing out that the problem has been long standing.









I get sick of all the bashing of Obama for stuff that other presidents have also been guilty of doing. Or the bashing him for things he wasn't responsible for, for example the Lifeline program. I am talking about in general, not just on CM. I didn't even vote for him.










Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

SO it was wrong for all other Administrations not to make a change, but since they didn't, well, Obama's shouldn't have to either and it is magically OKAY that THEY don't?












Quoting jllcali:

This has been an issue many many years before Obama became president. I know this was an issue when Reagan was president. Federal prosecutors just don't give a fuck about native women getting raped. Or crimes against natives in general.













Quoting Carpy:

A non native committing a crime on reservations is a federal offense.  Why is the Attorney generals office not doing THEIR job?  Why is this an issue Obama ignores?

Quoting krysstizzle:

The vast majority of attacks are by non natives. Non natives cannot be prosecuted by tribes, because of federal law. That's the point of the bill.















Quoting soonergirl980:


Native American women are far more at risk to be attacked and unprotected in their own communities. Their communities do not do a good job of protecting or prosecuting when it's within the tribe why would we trust that they will do a good job when it's an outsider?









Quoting mikiemom:

Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.















Posted on CafeMom Mobile
ThatTXMom
by Platinum Member on Feb. 23, 2013 at 10:01 AM

 

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting ChancesMommy07:

Like I said on FB, How do they keep getting elected? 

I grabbed this from your page mama. Native issues are not discussed enough and because of that these things can slip through, no one bats an eye ...or even knows they happen. 

I was hoping Txmom or some other NA moms would chime in. I would love to learn more. 

 Hey ladies, I am lurking.  =)

As to this topic.  I have really mixed feelings.  A few things to keep in mind: 

  1. The CNO is not a "reservation" but a conglomerate of tribal land disbursed throughout several counties.  You can have non-tribal land that is surrounded on all sides by tribal land and vice versa.
  2. My experience is simply based on where I grew up. (see #1)

I think that Tribal Courts should be able to prosecute anyone who commits a crime on Tribal Land (not just in the case of violence against women).  However, I can see that a non-Cherokee has a strike against him just by being non-Native before he steps in the court room. 

With that said, if the Tribal Courts were given jurisdiction over ANYONE of ANY RACE committing crime of Tribal land, perhaps that would deter the non-Native from committing crimes on tribal land if he/she knew that they can and would be prosecuted. 

So let's say that the Tribal Courts are given that jurisdiction... 100%.  Then one must look at the limitations that have been put on Tribal Courts.  If memory serves, the max sentence for any crime is like 3 years. 

And that in and of itself weakens the efficacy of Tribal Courts. 

*shrugs*  It pisses me off...  honestly.  If we are sovereign, then the Feds need to let us do what we feel needs to be done and get the fuck out of our business.  Come on to our Tribal Land and do stupid shit and pay the price we feel should be paid... not what the US thinks is okay for us to do. 

Can you see the US telling Singapore who they can prosecute and what the sentence can be.  Ridiculous....  just fucking ridiculous. 

 

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