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NA Juries are Incapable of Trying White People Fairly says GOP Senator

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Top GOP Senator: Native American Juries Are Incapable Of Trying White People Fairly

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA)

INDIANOLA, Iowa — Republicans have offered a number of reasons why they oppose the Violence Against Women Act. Some think it’s unconstitutional. Others argue that it’s just a meaningless bill with apatriotic title.

On Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) added a new one: Native Americans supposedly aren’t capable of holding fair trials.

Last week, Grassley was one of just 22 senators—all Republican men—who voted against reauthorizing VAWA. During a town hall meeting in Indianola on Wednesday, a woman asked him to explain his vote. Grassley responded that the legislation is unconstitutional, a belief shared by at least five of his colleagues.

Since the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to a trial among a jury of peers, Grassley reasoned that white men would be deprived of their rights if those who were accused of violence against Native American women had to appear in a tribal court. “On an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right?” Grassley said. “So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.”

GRASSLEY: One provision that non-Native Americans can be tried in tribal court. And why is that a big thing? Because of the constitutionality of it, for two reasons. One, you know how the law is, that if you have a jury, the jury is supposed to be a reflection of society. [...] So you get non-Indians, let me say to make it easy, you get non-Indians going into a reservation and violating a woman. They need to be prosecuted. They aren’t prosecuted. So the idea behind [VAWA] is we’ll try them in tribal court. But under the laws of our land, you got to have a jury that is a reflection of society as a whole, and on an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right? So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.

Watch it:

There is actually no requirement that juries reflect “society as a whole.” The Sixth Amendment requires juries to be drawn from the “State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,” and Supreme Court decisions establish that criminal defendants also have a right to a jury which is “drawn from a fair cross section of the community,” where the trial court convenes to hear their case. But this does not entitle anyone to be tried by a jury that reflects the whole of American society.

A person who is tried in Vermont is likely to have an all-white jury because over 95 percent of Vermont is white. Similarly, a person who commits a crime in the Navajo Nation will face a jury of Native Americans because the population of the local community is made up of Navajo people. There is no reason to believe that Navajo jurors are any less impartial than white Vermonters, and Grassley is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Grassley went to great lengths to tell attendees that he had supported VAWA in the past. “I support 98 percent of what’s in the bill,” he said. If it weren’t for his belief that Native Americans’ are incapable of conducting a fair trial, perhaps he would have voted for it again.

If you want Congress to reauthorize VAWA, sign ThinkProgress’ petition here.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/21/1619501/chuck-grassley-native-americans/


by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Replies (21-30):
Radarma
by "OneDar" on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:10 AM
2 moms liked this

 No, don't think its hunky dory, just tired of seeing the blatant double standard here.

If me, or anyone else posts something remotely negative about someone who is NONWHITE, we are accused of demonzing them, being a racist, blah blah blah, even when what we post IS TRUE and supported by FACTS, just like this OP.

(oh you know, like mobs of black youth invading towns/stores/homes, and beating random white ppl to near death, pesky lil stories like that)

Done with this post, have the fuck at it.

Quoting jllcali:

Non native also includes black, asian, any offender who is not a member of of the tribe.

So you think it's all hunky dory that someone can commit a violent crime on a reservation and get away with it just because you think the bill will "demonize white men". Crimes committed on tribal land will not be prosecuted by non tribal authorities because tribal lands are sovereign territory and only tribal authorities have authority. But if tribal authorities are not permitted to prosecute offenders who are not tribal members, violent offenses can and will go unpunished if they are committed by non natives (ANYONE who is not a tribe member, not just white men) on tribal land.
You need to get past your "things are so unfair for white people attitude" and look at them reality of this particular situation.


Tribal lands are not like military installations where outsiders can be easily kept out.


Quoting Radarma:

 


Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.

 


krysstizzle
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:11 AM
Yes, because they know they wont be prosecuted. Hence this bill.

And anyone paying attention knew.


Quoting Radarma:

 So white men are just seeking NA women to abuse and rape huh?


Wow, who knew?

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
krysstizzle
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:13 AM
1 mom liked this
What does this have to do with anything?

Quoting Radarma:

Oh trust me, you really don't wanna go there.

http://www.kcra.com/news/Man-32-arrested-in-Suisun-City-girl-s-park-death/-/11797728/18469262/-/xjmvau/-/index.html

When was the last time you saw CURRENT press on a white man raping and killing a black child? 


GTFOOH 


 


 


Quoting krysstizzle:





Quoting Radarma:


 


Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.


More than 70% of the non-native rapes are by white men. 


Looks like some white men are doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves. 


The fact that you can hear numbers like this about native women and rape, hear the people who are committing these crimes tend to be white males, and what you latch onto is this crap? Jesus. Fucking ridiculous. 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
SuperChicken
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:13 AM

I think it is preferable to not have juries be 100% a different race than a defendant, especially if the victim is the same race as the jury.  It doesn't matter which races are involved, I think it can create bias.   Unfortunately demographics don't always work out that way in real life.    I don't know much about Tribal courts, but if they have the same checks and balances as other U.S. courts that are "supposed" to protect against such bias, then I don't see the difference of a person being tried in any area with homogeneous population.

 

jllcali
by Jane on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:14 AM
3 moms liked this
A white man raping and killing a black child, while horrific and despicable (any rape no matter the race of them victims and perp) is completely irrelevant to this post, unless it happens on tribal land. Which is unlikely, because both the white man and black child are non native and probably would not be on tribal land to begin with. Unless them offender took the child onto tribal land to commit them offense for them purpose of escaping prosecution.

Stop throwing red herrings around. It makes it appear as though you are incapable of rational, independent thought.


Quoting Radarma:

Oh trust me, you really don't wanna go there.

http://www.kcra.com/news/Man-32-arrested-in-Suisun-City-girl-s-park-death/-/11797728/18469262/-/xjmvau/-/index.html

When was the last time you saw CURRENT press on a white man raping and killing a black child? 


GTFOOH 


 


 


Quoting krysstizzle:





Quoting Radarma:


 


Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.


More than 70% of the non-native rapes are by white men. 


Looks like some white men are doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves. 


The fact that you can hear numbers like this about native women and rape, hear the people who are committing these crimes tend to be white males, and what you latch onto is this crap? Jesus. Fucking ridiculous. 


 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
lizzielouaf
by Gold Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:19 AM
3 moms liked this

The concerns of these white men are fraught with generations of disturbing irony. 

krysstizzle
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:19 AM
2 moms liked this
YOU are accused of being racist because you are, or you at least pretend very well. No one has ever said blacks don't commit crimes. No one. You twist and squirm and imply that all blacks and all black communities are inherently violent or ignorant. That's why you are considered racist.

No one is implying all white men rape native women. That's the difference.


Quoting Radarma:

 No, don't think its hunky dory, just tired of seeing the blatant double standard here.

If me, or anyone else posts something remotely negative about someone who is NONWHITE, we are accused of demonzing them, being a racist, blah blah blah, even when what we post IS TRUE and supported by FACTS, just like this OP.

(oh you know, like mobs of black youth invading towns/stores/homes, and beating random white ppl to near death, pesky lil stories like that)

Done with this post, have the fuck at it.


Quoting jllcali:

Non native also includes black, asian, any offender who is not a member of of the tribe.

So you think it's all hunky dory that someone can commit a violent crime on a reservation and get away with it just because you think the bill will "demonize white men". Crimes committed on tribal land will not be prosecuted by non tribal authorities because tribal lands are sovereign territory and only tribal authorities have authority. But if tribal authorities are not permitted to prosecute offenders who are not tribal members, violent offenses can and will go unpunished if they are committed by non natives (ANYONE who is not a tribe member, not just white men) on tribal land.
You need to get past your "things are so unfair for white people attitude" and look at them reality of this particular situation.


Tribal lands are not like military installations where outsiders can be easily kept out.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.




Quoting Radarma:



 




Quoting mikiemom:




Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.




 WTF?!



 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
jllcali
by Jane on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:25 AM
1 mom liked this
NON NATIVE does not only apply to WHITE MEN. It applies to ANYONE who is not a tribal member. Wanting tribal authorities to be able to prosecute NON NATIVES of crimes perpetrated on tribal land is not demonizing white men. Bringing up crimes not committed on tribal lands is not relevant because authorities don't need this bill to prosecute the offenders. Statistics about crimes committed against Native Americans is relevant.

Start looking past the "whitey has it so bad, everyone is out to get him" attitude.


Quoting Radarma:

 No, don't think its hunky dory, just tired of seeing the blatant double standard here.

If me, or anyone else posts something remotely negative about someone who is NONWHITE, we are accused of demonzing them, being a racist, blah blah blah, even when what we post IS TRUE and supported by FACTS, just like this OP.

(oh you know, like mobs of black youth invading towns/stores/homes, and beating random white ppl to near death, pesky lil stories like that)

Done with this post, have the fuck at it.


Quoting jllcali:

Non native also includes black, asian, any offender who is not a member of of the tribe.

So you think it's all hunky dory that someone can commit a violent crime on a reservation and get away with it just because you think the bill will "demonize white men". Crimes committed on tribal land will not be prosecuted by non tribal authorities because tribal lands are sovereign territory and only tribal authorities have authority. But if tribal authorities are not permitted to prosecute offenders who are not tribal members, violent offenses can and will go unpunished if they are committed by non natives (ANYONE who is not a tribe member, not just white men) on tribal land.
You need to get past your "things are so unfair for white people attitude" and look at them reality of this particular situation.


Tribal lands are not like military installations where outsiders can be easily kept out.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.




Quoting Radarma:



 




Quoting mikiemom:




Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.




 WTF?!



 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.


 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:28 AM
1 mom liked this
What does this have to do with the inability to prosecute violent criminals who target innocent people because the jerks know they can act with impunity and no one will be able to send them to jail for their crimes?

What do dead kids in another state have to do with the rape stats on Indian nation land?


Quoting Radarma:

Oh trust me, you really don't wanna go there.

http://www.kcra.com/news/Man-32-arrested-in-Suisun-City-girl-s-park-death/-/11797728/18469262/-/xjmvau/-/index.html

When was the last time you saw CURRENT press on a white man raping and killing a black child? 


GTFOOH 


 


 


Quoting krysstizzle:





Quoting Radarma:


 


Quoting krysstizzle:

What? That's the whole point of this part of the bill and this man's comments, non-indians raping native women or beating and killing them. Native women have rates of violence against them two and a half times higher than foe any other population. At least 86% of that is committed by non-native men. And tribes aren't allowed to prosecute without the bill.

Wtf indeed.



Quoting Radarma:


 



Quoting mikiemom:



Umm maybe white men should stop raping Native Women - this man is an idiot.



 WTF?!


 non native means white yeah?

Stupid statements like that are meant to demonize white men. Nothing more, despicable.


More than 70% of the non-native rapes are by white men. 


Looks like some white men are doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves. 


The fact that you can hear numbers like this about native women and rape, hear the people who are committing these crimes tend to be white males, and what you latch onto is this crap? Jesus. Fucking ridiculous. 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
GLWerth
by Gina on Feb. 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Chuck Grassley is a douchebag who needs to retire.

He keeps getting elected because he brings home the bacon in terms of the farm bill and does well for the state, but on social issues, he's a dinosaur. He's also one of the "lock steppers" in the Rep. party. He never, ever steps out of line with whatever he's told to do.

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