Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

NA Juries are Incapable of Trying White People Fairly says GOP Senator

Posted by   + Show Post

Top GOP Senator: Native American Juries Are Incapable Of Trying White People Fairly

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA)

INDIANOLA, Iowa — Republicans have offered a number of reasons why they oppose the Violence Against Women Act. Some think it’s unconstitutional. Others argue that it’s just a meaningless bill with apatriotic title.

On Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) added a new one: Native Americans supposedly aren’t capable of holding fair trials.

Last week, Grassley was one of just 22 senators—all Republican men—who voted against reauthorizing VAWA. During a town hall meeting in Indianola on Wednesday, a woman asked him to explain his vote. Grassley responded that the legislation is unconstitutional, a belief shared by at least five of his colleagues.

Since the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to a trial among a jury of peers, Grassley reasoned that white men would be deprived of their rights if those who were accused of violence against Native American women had to appear in a tribal court. “On an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right?” Grassley said. “So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.”

GRASSLEY: One provision that non-Native Americans can be tried in tribal court. And why is that a big thing? Because of the constitutionality of it, for two reasons. One, you know how the law is, that if you have a jury, the jury is supposed to be a reflection of society. [...] So you get non-Indians, let me say to make it easy, you get non-Indians going into a reservation and violating a woman. They need to be prosecuted. They aren’t prosecuted. So the idea behind [VAWA] is we’ll try them in tribal court. But under the laws of our land, you got to have a jury that is a reflection of society as a whole, and on an Indian reservation, it’s going to be made up of Indians, right? So the non-Indian doesn’t get a fair trial.

Watch it:

There is actually no requirement that juries reflect “society as a whole.” The Sixth Amendment requires juries to be drawn from the “State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,” and Supreme Court decisions establish that criminal defendants also have a right to a jury which is “drawn from a fair cross section of the community,” where the trial court convenes to hear their case. But this does not entitle anyone to be tried by a jury that reflects the whole of American society.

A person who is tried in Vermont is likely to have an all-white jury because over 95 percent of Vermont is white. Similarly, a person who commits a crime in the Navajo Nation will face a jury of Native Americans because the population of the local community is made up of Navajo people. There is no reason to believe that Navajo jurors are any less impartial than white Vermonters, and Grassley is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Grassley went to great lengths to tell attendees that he had supported VAWA in the past. “I support 98 percent of what’s in the bill,” he said. If it weren’t for his belief that Native Americans’ are incapable of conducting a fair trial, perhaps he would have voted for it again.

If you want Congress to reauthorize VAWA, sign ThinkProgress’ petition here.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/21/1619501/chuck-grassley-native-americans/


by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Replies (41-50):
chloedee
by Bronze Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 11:56 AM

It is the Republican senator that implied here that Native people are unable to act as impartial jury members. It's an important discussion, and it appears that this Senator is the racist in thinking Native Americans are somehow incapable of impartility or not worthy of being considered peers.

I'm white and don't consider this discussion "sh$$ like this" or think that it makes me feel like a "sh$$head".

The fact is that some non-Native men (white in most cases, which makes sense demographically) carry out rapes against Native American women, and punishing them is difficult to impossible with the current system. Is that fact not worthy of discussion because it bothers you?

Quoting Naturewoman4:

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 



AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM
I really doubt he sweats the makeup of juries when native Americans are on trial in the united states. I'm sure they aren't only tried by other natives of the same tribe and he has yet to try and correct this egregious error in American jurisprudence. Seems a little hypocritical to my mind. He gets no pity and not even a pat on the back for thinking outside of the box. He's a racist idiot who sees whites as special.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
furbabymum
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:08 PM

 Considering how many NA men are tried in white courts this is hypocritical to the extreme!

furbabymum
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:14 PM

 I think the stats are hogwash because most natives DO NOT report crimes committed by their own. A lot of the crime committed (that I've had knowledge of) is kept within a family and is almost never reported. Those that do report are then shamed and ostrasized. It discourages others from reporting. It's much easier to report a crime a non-native has done.

Not saying non-natives should get away with anything though. I just don't believe the stats.

Quoting krysstizzle:

WHY we need to have posts like this? 

Native American women are raped and beat with impunity because of a fucked up situation where a non-native can come onto a reservation and NOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Native women are 2 1/2 times more likely than other women to be asssaulted. Most of that (around 80%, as an average of the stats) is by non-natives. And most of THAT is by white males. 

Now tell me we don't need to talk about this. It's abhorrant and disgusting. Did you know all of this before this post? If you did, great. But I'm willing to bet the majority of people (non-native) don't know this. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

What disturbs me the most is why we keep having posts like this.  Makes me wonder for those that keep putting up posts that inflames the racial tensions already, what is their point?  For those that does this, makes me wonder why are they so obsessed with race?  We see posts about Blacks/AA....then posts about Whites..  Why such hatred for Whites people??? 

 Now I know some will say, "Oh I don't hate ALL White people".....that it isn't my point in posting this.  Yet, how can a White person here on CM NOT think it is?  How can a White person here, not feel uptight & horrible that once again it's the White race that is doing this.  Or with Black posts, how can they not think "ok here we go again, us bad black people"....Sounds to me there is a lot of hatred right here on CM, between Blacks & Whites.  Why?  Why when not everyone of a certain race thinks/feels the same way. 

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 


 

Radarma
by "OneDar" on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM

 

Quoting krysstizzle:

It just makes me fucking ill that people can read about the atrocities allowed to go unpunished and STILL be fucking worried about "oh the poor, downtrodden white man". Jesus fucking christ. I can't even wrap my head around that kind of fucked up stupid. 

Shit fuck fuck.


 Relax, you are going to offend Iga and give yourself a headache. 

People questioning YOU about your motives for posting this is no different than the kazillions times I post about race and people question mine. Sucks don't it?

No one is ignoring anything, they are having a natural gut reaction to this post the same way our brown members have gut reactions to posts that show something not so shiny coming from their people.

MY personal reaction this morning stems from the reality that this board spends a great deal of time blaming this big bad rich old white man persona for all the ills of America.

We can discuss your perception issues of me and whether or not I am a racist in another post.

These posts are tough, don't blow a gasket.

krysstizzle
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

From what I can gather, both from stats, surveys, and personal experience, the stats hold as true as any other. Violence, from domestic abuse to rape, is under reported anyway, particularly on reservations. Many of the sources that collect this information include both reported crimes and surveys of samples of women. 

And 'keeping it in the family' (in regards to domestic violence) is true across all ethnicities. That won't skew the numbers when talking comparitively. And, just anecdotaly, I don't see rapes by non-family natives being reported any less than rapes by non-natives. They're both under reported.

Quoting furbabymum:

 I think the stats are hogwash because most natives DO NOT report crimes committed by their own. A lot of the crime committed (that I've had knowledge of) is kept within a family and is almost never reported. Those that do report are then shamed and ostrasized. It discourages others from reporting. It's much easier to report a crime a non-native has done.

Not saying non-natives should get away with anything though. I just don't believe the stats.

Quoting krysstizzle:

WHY we need to have posts like this? 

Native American women are raped and beat with impunity because of a fucked up situation where a non-native can come onto a reservation and NOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Native women are 2 1/2 times more likely than other women to be asssaulted. Most of that (around 80%, as an average of the stats) is by non-natives. And most of THAT is by white males. 

Now tell me we don't need to talk about this. It's abhorrant and disgusting. Did you know all of this before this post? If you did, great. But I'm willing to bet the majority of people (non-native) don't know this. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

What disturbs me the most is why we keep having posts like this.  Makes me wonder for those that keep putting up posts that inflames the racial tensions already, what is their point?  For those that does this, makes me wonder why are they so obsessed with race?  We see posts about Blacks/AA....then posts about Whites..  Why such hatred for Whites people??? 

 Now I know some will say, "Oh I don't hate ALL White people".....that it isn't my point in posting this.  Yet, how can a White person here on CM NOT think it is?  How can a White person here, not feel uptight & horrible that once again it's the White race that is doing this.  Or with Black posts, how can they not think "ok here we go again, us bad black people"....Sounds to me there is a lot of hatred right here on CM, between Blacks & Whites.  Why?  Why when not everyone of a certain race thinks/feels the same way. 

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 


 


OHgirlinCA
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:25 PM

 So... Native Americans are incapable of being unbiased? 

***shakes head***

krysstizzle
by on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Radarma:

 

Quoting krysstizzle:

It just makes me fucking ill that people can read about the atrocities allowed to go unpunished and STILL be fucking worried about "oh the poor, downtrodden white man". Jesus fucking christ. I can't even wrap my head around that kind of fucked up stupid. 

Shit fuck fuck.


 Relax, you are going to offend Iga and give yourself a headache. 

People questioning YOU about your motives for posting this is no different than the kazillions times I post about race and people question mine. Sucks don't it?

No one is ignoring anything, they are having a natural gut reaction to this post the same way our brown members have gut reactions to posts that show something not so shiny coming from their people.

MY personal reaction this morning stems from the reality that this board spends a great deal of time blaming this big bad rich old white man persona for all the ills of America.

We can discuss your perception issues of me and whether or not I am a racist in another post.

These posts are tough, don't blow a gasket.

First off, I didn't post this. 

Second of all, and as I already pointed out, the big difference is that people don't generally lump all white men into a category, as is the case with other groups. One hardly ever hears "in the white male community" and takes it seriously. People DO, however, take "the black community" or the "native american community" seriously. 

And thirdly, nothing exists in a vacuum. Actions of people of different races occur in different contexts. That's just the way it is. A white man raping a native women has about a million underlying issues that don't exist if a native man were to rape a white woman. History of race relations plays an important role whether we want it to or not. Acting like it doesn't is just ludicrous and disingenous. 

Radarma
by "OneDar" on Feb. 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM

 I realized it is not your post after I wrote that.

Where'd MJ go? LMAO

Anywhos...

Yes yes yes, people most certainly DO lump all white men/ppl. Happens all the time, not sure how you miss it.

As for the underlying issues, not sure what you are thinking of when you say that but I DO know that my responses earlier this morning stem from a similar feeling.

We have had SEVERAL cases in the national news the past few months, geographically LOCAL to me, where young white (primarily female) women have been murdered, all by nonwhite men. I AM bothered by this, and the fact that to simply POINT IT OUT and ASK about it will make me "appear" racist. Where are the cases of white men murdering brown girls?  

If I were to post these cases, and point out the natural observation, all hell would break loose. People like YOU would say "you just think all brown people are violent and you are a racist..." 

So when I see a post like this, and consider it in the context of what I SEE happening around me, it does strike a chord.

And now I will bow out, MJ will have much catch up to do. 

Good day to you Kryzz.

:)

 

Quoting krysstizzle:


Quoting Radarma:

 

Quoting krysstizzle:

It just makes me fucking ill that people can read about the atrocities allowed to go unpunished and STILL be fucking worried about "oh the poor, downtrodden white man". Jesus fucking christ. I can't even wrap my head around that kind of fucked up stupid. 

Shit fuck fuck.


 Relax, you are going to offend Iga and give yourself a headache. 

People questioning YOU about your motives for posting this is no different than the kazillions times I post about race and people question mine. Sucks don't it?

No one is ignoring anything, they are having a natural gut reaction to this post the same way our brown members have gut reactions to posts that show something not so shiny coming from their people.

MY personal reaction this morning stems from the reality that this board spends a great deal of time blaming this big bad rich old white man persona for all the ills of America.

We can discuss your perception issues of me and whether or not I am a racist in another post.

These posts are tough, don't blow a gasket.

First off, I didn't post this. 

Second of all, and as I already pointed out, the big difference is that people don't generally lump all white men into a category, as is the case with other groups. One hardly ever hears "in the white male community" and takes it seriously. People DO, however, take "the black community" or the "native american community" seriously. 

And thirdly, nothing exists in a vacuum. Actions of people of different races occur in different contexts. That's just the way it is. A white man raping a native women has about a million underlying issues that don't exist if a native man were to rape a white woman. History of race relations plays an important role whether we want it to or not. Acting like it doesn't is just ludicrous and disingenous. 

 

Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Feb. 22, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Yes, I will agree this subject needs to be  brought up.  It's how 'some' posters take this opportunity to lump us all in the same group.  That's what upsets me about posts like this.  Let's say we do posts about blacks, whenever we do.  Boy, we better look out for a fight!  Because, we're not able to talk about that.  But, if we put up a post with our evidence, etc.  Doesn't matter as a White person we will be blasted & called all kinds of horrible names.  So, could you tell me what's the difference? 

You see if say a White person really is so fed up with say things that Blacks have done, we are not allowed to even mention it.  Why?  It is just as important, upsetting to us, as it is to people in post like this.  Yet, as a White person I feel we don't dare say how we feel, what has happen to a white person or even ourselves.  But, other races are allowed.  That's what upsets me.

 It's just a sensitive issue all around.  Perhaps, if people can discuss it, WITHOUT taking the opportunity to say just how horrible ALL of us White people are, then it would be different.  But, there are few here on CM that loves posts like this. 


Quoting krysstizzle:

WHY we need to have posts like this? 

Native American women are raped and beat with impunity because of a fucked up situation where a non-native can come onto a reservation and NOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Native women are 2 1/2 times more likely than other women to be asssaulted. Most of that (around 80%, as an average of the stats) is by non-natives. And most of THAT is by white males. 

Now tell me we don't need to talk about this. It's abhorrant and disgusting. Did you know all of this before this post? If you did, great. But I'm willing to bet the majority of people (non-native) don't know this. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

What disturbs me the most is why we keep having posts like this.  Makes me wonder for those that keep putting up posts that inflames the racial tensions already, what is their point?  For those that does this, makes me wonder why are they so obsessed with race?  We see posts about Blacks/AA....then posts about Whites..  Why such hatred for Whites people??? 

 Now I know some will say, "Oh I don't hate ALL White people".....that it isn't my point in posting this.  Yet, how can a White person here on CM NOT think it is?  How can a White person here, not feel uptight & horrible that once again it's the White race that is doing this.  Or with Black posts, how can they not think "ok here we go again, us bad black people"....Sounds to me there is a lot of hatred right here on CM, between Blacks & Whites.  Why?  Why when not everyone of a certain race thinks/feels the same way. 

If a person wants to just discuss an issue, then they are walking on a thin line when posting something like this.  I guess some just want the drama & fight.  But, to me, if someone wants to posts about this.  Well then at least do it in a way/intention of just bringing up the details of crimes/trials that are held on a Tribe.  But, what I see already from the title, is how it will go down here.  Instead why can't we leave the 'race' part of it out in a title.  Even in the discussions. 

 As a White person it does offend me.  I don't want to get into race issues.  Because, it does upset me.  Because, I know there's scum on both sides.  Blacks & Whites.  Just what I hear some people say on here about Whites, it's appalling.  How would Blacks or another race feel, if we then go put up more posts about other races?  How would that make you all feel?  Is that what people on here what to do?  Just has us all go back & forth.  Putting up posts after posts about sh$$ like this?  Making the person who reads it & it's about THEIR race, well I guess we're all just a bunch of sh$$heads. 



 

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

close Join now to connect to
other members!
Connect with Facebook or Sign Up Using Email

Already Joined? LOG IN