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Any of you who are history majors (or at least know history well)

Posted by on Feb. 24, 2013 at 10:44 PM
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Im watching one of my favorite 'school required' movies from high school, called Glory. (matthew Broderic, denzel washington, morgan freeman, etc) 

i love this movie. but i haven't seen it since i was a teen. 

watching it now, i had to pause it and come ask something. and ive noticed that this group is made up of at least moderately intelligent women with a great deal of knowledge in politics and history. 


I have always been under the impression, from school and such, that pres. lincoln was AGAINST slavery. and fought to get RID of it. 

But i could be wrong, because i only squeaked by with a C in history lol. 

but i am really really curious about this. because in the movie, (not sure how accurate it really is but its supposed to be fairly accurate) pres lincoln issued a proclamation that any colored man caught enlisting in the army by the confederates would be immediately returned to a state of slavery, and any colored man wearing a uniform would be put to death. 


that just doesn't make sense to me if pres lincoln was a man who fought to end slavery and wanted equality. 



thanks for your time! 

Autism

by on Feb. 24, 2013 at 10:44 PM
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Replies (1-10):
cammibear
by Gold Member on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:25 PM
I haven't seen the movie, but there is no question Abraham Lincoln was anti-slavery.

You might read his House Divided speech and the Cooper Union speech. There's a lot of revisionist history out there. I would bypass any "historian" bias and go directly to the source, Lincoln's own words and writings. :)
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toomanypoodles
by Ruby Member on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:30 PM

 Good movie.  I just read Bill O'Reilley's Killing Lincoln.  He and Dugard did a lot of digging and came up with a lot of info that I'd never learned.  You may want to check that out. 

LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:30 PM
6 moms liked this

It has been my understanding that Lincoln was not, personally, opposed to slavery, and he did not believe it was a one-dimensional (or single-race) issue. He knew a LOT more about the history of the world --and the history of slavery-- than most people today.

What he did was abolish it to appease the power brokers in the North, regardless of the economic damage it would do to the South. The North got to 'outgrow' the need for it, economically... the South got pulled out of it long before there was any way for the economy to survive it.

Imagine, for example (from the Aussie/US minimum wage post) that the US was suddenly required to adopt an across-the-board minimum wage of $16/hr, plus benefits.

That's pretty much what happened to the economics of the South. Lincoln knew it would happen, too.

Mommy_of_Riley
by Jes on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:36 PM
It is well known that Lincoln himself owned slaves. Was he against salary? Not 100%. In te beginning his idea was simply that he didn't want slavery expanding into more states... :-)
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Kayla2013
by Member on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM
Here is a bump. I don't know but I love history.
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glitterteaz
by Ruby Member on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:49 PM
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This is correct. Lincoln could have cared less about slaves or no slaves he was very much a racist and a bigot.

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

Further proof is here 


Quoting LindaClement:

It has been my understanding that Lincoln was not, personally, opposed to slavery, and he did not believe it was a one-dimensional (or single-race) issue. He knew a LOT more about the history of the world --and the history of slavery-- than most people today.

What he did was abolish it to appease the power brokers in the North, regardless of the economic damage it would do to the South. The North got to 'outgrow' the need for it, economically... the South got pulled out of it long before there was any way for the economy to survive it.

Imagine, for example (from the Aussie/US minimum wage post) that the US was suddenly required to adopt an across-the-board minimum wage of $16/hr, plus benefits.

That's pretty much what happened to the economics of the South. Lincoln knew it would happen, too.


lga1965
by on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:50 PM

 I think that it was an economic issue ( isn't it always) and that Lincoln was not actually anti-slavery. It has been a  fairy tale like myth that he was the one who ended slavery and that he was some kind of hero but that isn't true. Its best to get all the opinions and accurate history, rather than the grade school version.

TexasWife
by on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:51 PM

This. My understanding was the war started over money. The states that became the confederate army  did so over taxes and the fact that their vote did not count in the election of the President.

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

It is well known that Lincoln himself owned slaves. Was he against salary? Not 100%. In te beginning his idea was simply that he didn't want slavery expanding into more states... :-)


lga1965
by on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM
1 mom liked this

 THIS:

Quoting glitterteaz:

This is correct. Lincoln could have cared less about slaves or no slaves he was very much a racist and a bigot.

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

Further proof is here 

 

Quoting LindaClement:

It has been my understanding that Lincoln was not, personally, opposed to slavery, and he did not believe it was a one-dimensional (or single-race) issue. He knew a LOT more about the history of the world --and the history of slavery-- than most people today.

What he did was abolish it to appease the power brokers in the North, regardless of the economic damage it would do to the South. The North got to 'outgrow' the need for it, economically... the South got pulled out of it long before there was any way for the economy to survive it.

Imagine, for example (from the Aussie/US minimum wage post) that the US was suddenly required to adopt an across-the-board minimum wage of $16/hr, plus benefits.

That's pretty much what happened to the economics of the South. Lincoln knew it would happen, too.


 

LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Feb. 24, 2013 at 11:58 PM

I haven't seen that quote, but I'm not surprised by it. Very much the Enlightened View of the time.

Quoting glitterteaz:

This is correct. Lincoln could have cared less about slaves or no slaves he was very much a racist and a bigot.

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

Further proof is here 


Quoting LindaClement:

It has been my understanding that Lincoln was not, personally, opposed to slavery, and he did not believe it was a one-dimensional (or single-race) issue. He knew a LOT more about the history of the world --and the history of slavery-- than most people today.

What he did was abolish it to appease the power brokers in the North, regardless of the economic damage it would do to the South. The North got to 'outgrow' the need for it, economically... the South got pulled out of it long before there was any way for the economy to survive it.

Imagine, for example (from the Aussie/US minimum wage post) that the US was suddenly required to adopt an across-the-board minimum wage of $16/hr, plus benefits.

That's pretty much what happened to the economics of the South. Lincoln knew it would happen, too.



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