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Is there ABORTion Options counseling?

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 This has been bothering me for some time. I know that there are state laws which regulate and require options counseling for parents considering ADOPTion.There are also state laws and regualtions that mandate when and how soon parents can voluntarily terminate their parental rights. In fact, biological fathers are required to sign as well- as long as they are known.

But when it comes to ABORTion? And I am NOT speaking about those "Pregnancy Centers" run and organized by the pro-life/anti-abortion sect.

I mean to say, in those clinics / hospitals / faciltiies where ABORTions are performed, are there counslors on hand, free of charge, who provide options counseling providing alternatives to abortion?

 1- In this options counseling, are the women (and men too) counseled as to their rights, their options and what the emotional toll(s) abortion may and can have on them after the fact?

 2- Are alternatives to abortion provided and reviewed including parenting the child,

 placing the child in foster care,

placing the child with a trusted family member or friend,

day care and public assitance options,

 or adoption?

 while indicating that abortion is only one option?

 and one of last resort when all other options have been fully explored, considered and rejected?    

and they have to wait a certain period of time to consider their options before they can have an abortion?

and there must be a certain number of options sessions prior to giving consent to abortion? (or sign a release waiving their right to counseling?)

and the biological father is encouarged and required  (if he is known) to particpate and also give consent to the abortion process?

That all attempts to locate the biological father are completed, including obtaining an attorney to conduct a legal search so that the father can give consent?

Lastly, are women and men counseled not just about the medical "procedure" but the emotional cost(s) of aborton?

I ask this all because when it comes to adoption, all of this must occur PRIOR to taking a voluntary termination of parental rights? 

by on Feb. 25, 2013 at 5:25 PM
Replies (11-20):
AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:31 PM
2 moms liked this
Sounds like someone wants to ensure that too much time passes for someone to receive an early and safe abortion by placing mountains of paperwork and invasive questions in between paying for the abortion and receiving it.

Some of those things already exist. I would never support prohibiting an abortion (or even delaying it) so the biological father could be found, given several non consecutive counseling sessions, given a high pressure speech on the evils of abortion, and then allowed to sign a piece of paper giving permission for another human being to have an abortion
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Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:31 PM

 I'm sorry; I do not know what that means? Can you please explain.

Quoting LindaClement:

I think this speaks to the emotional blast-zone of adoption, which few people even know about much less acknowledge.

It's not 'easier' than abortion. It's far, far more complicated.

 

Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:35 PM

 

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

No the father does not have to consent the woman is not his property and it's HER body.
Yes they provide counseling and then you have to wait 24 hours before an abortion. In fact some places have mandated speeches.

And the only alternative to pregnancy is not being pregnant. Those other options are parenting options. You still have to go through the pregnancy. If a woman does not wish to do that then parenting options are a moot point, don't ya think?

 Yes. I agree. I am trying however to tease out the nuances of abortion. When a woman is unexpectantly pregnant aka crisis pregnancy/unplanned pregnnacy, ect....sometimes the first thinking is abortion. If a woman takes the step further and visits her doctor/clinic in which abortuions are performed, I am looking to discover what information she is given.

The OP indictaes a list of what the woman (and man) faces when considering adoption . 

Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:39 PM

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 Thank you for sharing so openly and honestly.

I am very glad to know you received counseling and were provided with alternative options so that way you were able to give a fully informed consent.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

When I was 17, I had an abortion.  It was not through PP.  I was seen at a local woman's clinic and referred to a doctor within the local hospital for the procedure.

I was counseled by a lovely woman who was a psychologist and the doctor working that day.  I was given a significant amount of literature to read and several numbers to call with any questions or just to talk. 

They asked that I wait 24 hours prior to making the appointment with the doctor at the hospital.  I did.  My appointment was a week later.

I read every thing.  

But my mind was made  up and I do not regret the decision I made at that time in my life.

A week after the procedure, a nurse called me to see how I was doing, both emotionally and physically.  She was very kind and non judgemental.

Any thing other than that, I would have felt pressured to do as some one else wanted.  It was not about any one else.

 

You are welcome.  I have no shame in the decision I made at that time.  It was my only option and I knew it.  But I respected those who were there and realized they had a job to do.

This was many years ago.   I am now 48.

 I hope you know and understand that I am not judging you nor do I intend to shame you. You had choices to make and you chose the best one for you. As I mentioned to another poster here, I am simply trying to tease out and have a better understanding of what women experience when considering abortion. I only know the adoption "option." 

Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:44 PM

 If that is what you think this OP is about- you are mistaken. Completely. Mistaken. The Op lists what is involved in adoption. I wish to know what is involved in the option of abortion. I do not know the details to that option (aside from the obvious). And since this has not been a personal experience of mine, I am asking. I am hoping that the women and mothers here are respectful. ( HOPE but understand how nasty it can get too). 

You see in adoption, a mother and father must be fully informed of all options. These options sessions must be carefully documented. I am simply wondering, again, what the process is for abortion. The other option to parenting. 

 

Quoting AdrianneHill:

Skins like someone wants to ensure that too much time passes for someone to receive an early and safe abortion by placing mountains of paperwork and invasive questions in between paying for the abortion and receiving it.
Some of those things already exist. I would never support prohibiting an abortion (or even delaying it) so the biological father could be found, given several non consecutive counseling sessions, given a high pressure speech on the evils of abortion, and then allowed to sign a piece of paper giving permission for another human being to have an abortion

 

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:51 PM


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 When I wrote about waiving the right to counseling-I was speaking in terms of what occurs in adoption. if a mother/father refuses counseling which they are entitled to a ceratin number of sessions under the law, the mother/father must sign a waiver indicating that they were fully informed of their right to counseling and have refused to particpate. This document must be on file if there are no cousneling sessions. And no, it does not mean forever. The parents are free to change their mind at any time.

Re: emotional costs- as determined by scientific/ social studies which have been tested and documented (if any)

In regards to adoption, all legal expenses are covered by the prospective adoptive parents. NOT the expectant/birth parent. And if there is no biological father, this must be documented very carefully. if the mother knows who the biolgical father, all attempts must be made to locate him and secure his consent and or termination of parental rights.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

Waive their right to counseling?  If they choose not to go through sessions in regards to their options they waive their right to counseling?  Does this mean forever?  

Who is it that determines the emotional cost?  Some counselor, a doctor, a Priest........who, exactly?   No one can determine other than the individual.  

If some one wants to locate the father, that cost should be on them, not the woman.  If she does not know the father or the father has walked away, no one should force her to pay an attorney, or otherwise, to locate the man.

Although I do understand that often times, the man suffers at the hands of the woman having the choice to abort......until he can carry and birth a child, he should never have to consent to a medical procedure that does not involve his own body.


 

Thanks for clarify.

I can understand the necessity for every thing mentioned in the adoption process.  But not when it comes to an abortion.  At least not all that has been mentioned.

God love any and every one who adopts.  I don't think enough people truly realize what people go through in order to adopt.

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:52 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 Thank you for sharing so openly and honestly.

I am very glad to know you received counseling and were provided with alternative options so that way you were able to give a fully informed consent.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

When I was 17, I had an abortion.  It was not through PP.  I was seen at a local woman's clinic and referred to a doctor within the local hospital for the procedure.

I was counseled by a lovely woman who was a psychologist and the doctor working that day.  I was given a significant amount of literature to read and several numbers to call with any questions or just to talk. 

They asked that I wait 24 hours prior to making the appointment with the doctor at the hospital.  I did.  My appointment was a week later.

I read every thing.  

But my mind was made  up and I do not regret the decision I made at that time in my life.

A week after the procedure, a nurse called me to see how I was doing, both emotionally and physically.  She was very kind and non judgemental.

Any thing other than that, I would have felt pressured to do as some one else wanted.  It was not about any one else.

 

You are welcome.  I have no shame in the decision I made at that time.  It was my only option and I knew it.  But I respected those who were there and realized they had a job to do.

This was many years ago.   I am now 48.

 I hope you know and understand that I am not judging you nor do I intend to shame you. You had choices to make and you chose the best one for you. As I mentioned to another poster here, I am simply trying to tease out and have a better understanding of what women experience when considering abortion. I only know the adoption "option." 

Oh yes, I understand that.  I did not mean to imply otherwise, that I felt you were doing any such thing.   Not at all.  Some times, I truly hate that there is no 'tone' button with all of this. :)

Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM
1 mom liked this

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 When I wrote about waiving the right to counseling-I was speaking in terms of what occurs in adoption. if a mother/father refuses counseling which they are entitled to a ceratin number of sessions under the law, the mother/father must sign a waiver indicating that they were fully informed of their right to counseling and have refused to particpate. This document must be on file if there are no cousneling sessions. And no, it does not mean forever. The parents are free to change their mind at any time.

Re: emotional costs- as determined by scientific/ social studies which have been tested and documented (if any)

In regards to adoption, all legal expenses are covered by the prospective adoptive parents. NOT the expectant/birth parent. And if there is no biological father, this must be documented very carefully. if the mother knows who the biolgical father, all attempts must be made to locate him and secure his consent and or termination of parental rights.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

Waive their right to counseling?  If they choose not to go through sessions in regards to their options they waive their right to counseling?  Does this mean forever?  

Who is it that determines the emotional cost?  Some counselor, a doctor, a Priest........who, exactly?   No one can determine other than the individual.  

If some one wants to locate the father, that cost should be on them, not the woman.  If she does not know the father or the father has walked away, no one should force her to pay an attorney, or otherwise, to locate the man.

Although I do understand that often times, the man suffers at the hands of the woman having the choice to abort......until he can carry and birth a child, he should never have to consent to a medical procedure that does not involve his own body.


 

Thanks for clarify.

I can understand the necessity for every thing mentioned in the adoption process.  But not when it comes to an abortion.  At least not all that has been mentioned.

God love any and every one who adopts.  I don't think enough people truly realize what people go through in order to adopt.

 I really am glad to know there is counseling. I was not aware that it really occured. I assumed it was simply a cursory nod and then a sign here on the dotted line and a follow me into room #3. I am also glad to know that there is a wait period, even by 1 day. A lot can change in 1 day. I personally think a woman (and man) shoud be given all options and time to consder before they go through a process that is not reversible. 

aka: I do not think enough people truly realize what parents go through in order to place their child for adoption.

Southernroots
by New Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 7:08 PM
2 moms liked this

Some moms I have run across in the past few years did receive some counseling prior to relinquishing babies to adoption.  However, the "counseling" that is often offered does not seem unbiased or honest. Adoption laws vary from state to state, and although some dates may require counseling, I doubt that all do. Counseling that is offered by adoption agencies or lawyers is suspect anyway.  Their main focus is adoption, not helping women make the best possible choice.  There is a definite conflict of interest in adoption workers offering advice to pregnant women about their options.

I have seen many pregnancy support centers which do emphasis the detrimental effects of abortion.  They even offer support to women who have had abortions.  On the other hand, there is very limited help for birth moms.  I happen to know this because I have tried to find help for birth moms in several states, and it isn't easy.  

An adoptee I knew a few years back told me afterr the fact that she'd had an abortion.  She said at several pregancy support centers she had checked out, adoption was pushed at her.  

I agree that pregnant women need to understand the potential emotional toll of abortion.  However,  I see a lot more "warnings" about how much of a toll abortion makes on a woman, and not nearly enough on how relinquishment affects women.  Several moms I've met did both, had an abortion and did adoption.  ALL of them said adoption affected them far worse than abortion.  Not saying abortion is "better" than adoption all the time.  It depends on the woman.   I know how relinquishment feels though, and I wish more women knew before relinquishment how it would affect them.

Planned Parenthood does tell women about the potential emotional toil for women.  If a woman asks them about adoption though, they refer her to an agency.   






meriana
by Platinum Member on Feb. 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM

As far as abortion, I believe it would all have to do with whatever laws, etc. are in place in the state one is in as well as the clinic or whatever one goes to and the people working at same.  One of my dd's was pregnant at, I think she was 17, nearly 18 and married. (she's now in her 30's).  They didn't have much money so she went to a local pp clinic to see if they could recommend a dr she could go to that they might be able to afford. She was never given any information about any physicians, clinics for low income people; she was never told about any "options" or given any other helpful information. What she was told was that she should have an abortion along with reasons why she should have an abortion. When she finally realized that was all the "counselor" or whatever position the person had, was going to suggest and talk to her about, she got up and left. If she had gone to a hospital clinic, known where to find a low income clinic or gone to a different pp clinic, she likely wouldn't have ended up with some "professional" trying to convince her getting an abortion was what she should do.

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