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This is why I shouldn't watch the news (especially just before bed) EDIT TO ADD

Posted by on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:35 AM
  • 17 Replies
So many of you have questioned whether or not this lady had a DNR.  I'm not sure of the answer, it wasn't in any of the articles that I read.  However I question why, if there was a DNR, the nurse who made the 911 call didn't make that clear to the dispatcher.  I understand HIPAA prevents disclosing personal health information, but I would think (and perhaps someone can help me out here) that the dispatcher should have access to that information as it pertains to the woman's healthcare and the first responders should have been made aware of this.   

I heard this story on the news last night and heard the 911 call.  It made me cry.  I kept thinking about my grandmother, who also lives in an assisted living facility and it kept me up half the night.  I get that there are rules and regulations set out to protect the staff and the residents, but seriously?  The staff member was asked by the 911 dispatcher to hand the phone to another resident or a visitor so that she could instruct them on how to perform CPR and the staff member refused to even do that.  


Nurse refuses to perform CPR despite 911 dispatcher's plea

An elderly woman being cared for at a California retirement facility died following the refusal of a nurse at the facility to perform CPR on the woman after she collapsed, authorities said.

When Lorraine Bayless, an 87-year-old resident of Glenwood Gardens, Bakersfield, collapsed at the facility around 11 a.m. Tuesday, a staff member called 911 but refused to give the woman CPR, according to a recording of the call.

In refusing the 911 dispatcher's insistence that she perform CPR, the nurse can be heard telling the dispatcher that it was against the retirement facility's policy to perform CPR.

During the exchange between the nurse and the dispatcher, the dispatcher can be heard saying "I don't understand why you're not willing to help this patient.''

An ambulance arrived several minutes after the call and took Bayless to a hospital, where she was later pronounced dead. She has been identified as a resident of the home's independent facility, which is separate from the skilled and assisted nursing facility.

The retirement facility released a statement extending its condolences to the family and said its "practice is to immediately call emergency medical personnel for assistance and to wait with the individual needing attention until such personnel arrives.''

The statement also said a "thorough internal review of the matter'' would be conducted.

A call to the facility by The Associated Press seeking more information on the incident was not immediately returned.

Bayless' daughter told a reporter for KGET, the NBC affiliate in Bakersfield, that she was also a nurse and was satisfied with the care her mother received.

by on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:35 AM
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Replies (1-10):
agrisham13mom
by Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM
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Wow... I am a nurse and couldn't imagine standing by not doing something. Unless the patient had a DNR on file it doesn't state if maybe all the patients in this facility have DNR orders or not. It may explain the whole thing if that is the case.
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stormcris
by Christy on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:41 AM
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A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 

LDavis33
by Bronze Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:45 AM

I did think about that, but I would imagine that if that were the case and the resident(s) had a DNR, the nurse who called 911 would have explained that to the 911 operator, instead of simply saying that she is not permitted to perform CPR.  

Quoting stormcris:

A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 


GOBryan
by Silver Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:50 AM
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The problem with the articles is that they don't tell you the whole story. The woman may have been very ill. She may have had a conversation with the nurse that she didn't want to continue going on. She was 87 years old after all.. If those were the cases, what's the point? I had a great aunt who refused to resusitate her older sister because the quality of life was missing. The doctor got mad but it was for the best. Life isn't all it's cracked up to be at certain points in life depending on the person's healthy, etc. No sense to continue and sometimes, your mission on earth is over and time to go "Home." 

stormcris
by Christy on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:50 AM
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She explained it was the facility's policy and the facility backed her up with their statement. The facility has the DNR which for legal purposes would be a part of the paperwork signed at admission and most likely verbally explained just to cover bases. Thus if paramedics had arrived in time they could have well preformed CPR pending a personal DNR.

The daughter apparently was aware of the policy as well as she was satisfied with the care her mother received.

Quoting LDavis33:

I did think about that, but I would imagine that if that were the case and the resident(s) had a DNR, the nurse who called 911 would have explained that to the 911 operator, instead of simply saying that she is not permitted to perform CPR.  

Quoting stormcris:

A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 



Debmomto2girls
by Platinum Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:53 AM
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That is what I am thinking. As a nurse, there is no way I would stand by unless they were DNR

Quoting agrisham13mom:

Wow... I am a nurse and couldn't imagine standing by not doing something. Unless the patient had a DNR on file it doesn't state if maybe all the patients in this facility have DNR orders or not. It may explain the whole thing if that is the case.
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Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Why bother to call 911? I don't know what the policies are in that retirement home. Also, how can a 911 operator insist that a qualified or unqualified person who may or may not know CPR perform CPR?

Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Mar. 3, 2013 at 9:54 AM


Quoting LDavis33:

I did think about that, but I would imagine that if that were the case and the resident(s) had a DNR, the nurse who called 911 would have explained that to the 911 operator, instead of simply saying that she is not permitted to perform CPR.  

Quoting stormcris:

A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 


telling anyone about a DNR is against HIPAA

LDavis33
by Bronze Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 10:01 AM

Would it be against HIPAA if there were a universal DNR that all residents signed upon moving in?  Just curious.  And, if a personal DNR were in place, why would they call 911?  If she didn't wish to be resuscitated, why call for help? 

I'm just throwing this out there.  I don't know the whole story, and obviously her daughter was happy with the care she received, so nothing more will come of this.  Just listening to the frustration in the 911 operators voice was enough to bother me.

Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:


Quoting LDavis33:

I did think about that, but I would imagine that if that were the case and the resident(s) had a DNR, the nurse who called 911 would have explained that to the 911 operator, instead of simply saying that she is not permitted to perform CPR.  

Quoting stormcris:

A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 


telling anyone about a DNR is against HIPAA


JCB911
by Bronze Member on Mar. 3, 2013 at 10:02 AM

But perhaps she did and the news omitted that b/c it makes for a better story . . .  they have done that in the past.

To the OP - yeah, stop watching the news,  they report on all kinds of things that really aren't helpful and will only keep you awake at night.  And if your Gma is in a facility make sure you visit her often, as I'm sure you do.  I lost my Grandma just a few months ago and while I did visit it was depressing to see how empty the place was - even on Christmas, very VERY few people.

Quoting LDavis33:

I did think about that, but I would imagine that if that were the case and the resident(s) had a DNR, the nurse who called 911 would have explained that to the 911 operator, instead of simply saying that she is not permitted to perform CPR.  

Quoting stormcris:

A facility like this can have entire facility DNRs. The people who place their relatives in such are normally made well aware of such and those are the wishes of the family. 



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