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"There is a special place in HELL for women.......

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who don't help other women". - Madeliene Albright (inspired by the spat between Tina Fey and Taylor Swift)....Thought?
by on Mar. 6, 2013 at 11:16 AM
Replies (151-160):
KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 11:20 AM
Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.



VanessaCB
by Bronze Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:08 PM

I don't know if this was mentioned already but Amy Poehler said in reply that she is sorry Taylor feels that way but that she agrees that she is going to hell except for "boring tax stuff'.  ROFL!!!!!

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:20 PM
1 mom liked this

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.




KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 8:58 PM
There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.




stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 9:30 PM

The underlined is BS and doesn't follow.  There is no evidence to support it except whatever you are making up in your head.  That is what this entire exchange was about, the reason you came to that conclusion.  I see there is no reason for that except your personal opinion.  You seem to think supporting women is taking something away from men.  Apparently you are not capeable of seeing that one is not a detriment to the other.

Spare me your poetry "appreciation" class in college, I took many myself as an English Lit major.  It doesn't have anything to do with a statement made by a political figure about a political subject.  Furthermore I assume you were required to know context in order to read poetry as well.  You will miss too much without context, literary criticism is not just about your personal opinion from a current perspective.  I never read one poem or book without having to know the circumstances it was written in.

Quoting KamWorthy:

There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.





KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 9:38 PM
Well then the only thing your comment proves is that you are frustrated with my opinion, and my education, and life experiences as well as demonstrates your intolerance for opinions opposite of yours. It's understood, noted.
Quoting stacymomof2:

The underlined is BS and doesn't follow.  There is no evidence to support it except whatever you are making up in your head.  That is what this entire exchange was about, the reason you came to that conclusion.  I see there is no reason for that except your personal opinion.  You seem to think supporting women is taking something away from men.  Apparently you are not capeable of seeing that one is not a detriment to the other.

Spare me your poetry "appreciation" class in college, I took many myself as an English Lit major.  It doesn't have anything to do with a statement made by a political figure about a political subject.  Furthermore I assume you were required to know context in order to read poetry as well.  You will miss too much without context, literary criticism is not just about your personal opinion from a current perspective.  I never read one poem or book without having to know the circumstances it was written in.

Quoting KamWorthy:

There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.





stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 9:57 PM
1 mom liked this

Okay then, if that is how you want to see it.

 You are LBN, isn't that an accepted fact by now?  Because I remember having conversations with you like this in the past.  I remember you thinking that other posters really focused on your opinions and life experiences, and that you think people disagreeing with you are "intolerant." I swear we have had this exact same exchange in the past.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Well then the only thing your comment proves is that you are frustrated with my opinion, and my education, and life experiences as well as demonstrates your intolerance for opinions opposite of yours. It's understood, noted.
Quoting stacymomof2:

The underlined is BS and doesn't follow.  There is no evidence to support it except whatever you are making up in your head.  That is what this entire exchange was about, the reason you came to that conclusion.  I see there is no reason for that except your personal opinion.  You seem to think supporting women is taking something away from men.  Apparently you are not capeable of seeing that one is not a detriment to the other.

Spare me your poetry "appreciation" class in college, I took many myself as an English Lit major.  It doesn't have anything to do with a statement made by a political figure about a political subject.  Furthermore I assume you were required to know context in order to read poetry as well.  You will miss too much without context, literary criticism is not just about your personal opinion from a current perspective.  I never read one poem or book without having to know the circumstances it was written in.

Quoting KamWorthy:

There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.






KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM
It's also not uncommon when a member becomes desperate and out of ammo, to sink to claiming their oppenant has an alt account. Just a little warning, they are coming down hard on members like you.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Okay then, if that is how you want to see it.

 You are LBN, isn't that an accepted fact by now?  Because I remember having conversations with you like this in the past.  I remember you thinking that other posters really focused on your opinions and life experiences, and that you think people disagreeing with you are "intolerant." I swear we have had this exact same exchange in the past.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Well then the only thing your comment proves is that you are frustrated with my opinion, and my education, and life experiences as well as demonstrates your intolerance for opinions opposite of yours. It's understood, noted.
Quoting stacymomof2:

The underlined is BS and doesn't follow.  There is no evidence to support it except whatever you are making up in your head.  That is what this entire exchange was about, the reason you came to that conclusion.  I see there is no reason for that except your personal opinion.  You seem to think supporting women is taking something away from men.  Apparently you are not capeable of seeing that one is not a detriment to the other.

Spare me your poetry "appreciation" class in college, I took many myself as an English Lit major.  It doesn't have anything to do with a statement made by a political figure about a political subject.  Furthermore I assume you were required to know context in order to read poetry as well.  You will miss too much without context, literary criticism is not just about your personal opinion from a current perspective.  I never read one poem or book without having to know the circumstances it was written in.

Quoting KamWorthy:

There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Well I guess I prefer to know context when I am deciphering a quote.  I think it is kind of a pointless excercise to discuss the meanings of something when you don't understand the meaning of it.  That's just me.

Yes, it is debateable, of course it is.  I didn't think I was going to change your mind, I was saying my piece, as we all do on a debate board.  I was looking for clarification on why women supporting other women is harmful to men, or women, or making excuses as you have posted in your thread.  I didn't recieve any direct answer to that question, so be it.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Once agin, for clarification Stacy....we are discussing two separate contexts regarding the one quote made by Albright. Albright, in her original meaning may have very well meant what you deciphered.However, if you just take the quote at face value, it is left up to individual interpretation. As for the context Swift used it, we know for a fact what she meant. You are arguing something that is not really debatable. It is a personal judgement call, opinion on a literary piece. You may strenuously object to my conclusions, but that's really all you can successfully do at this point.
Quoting stacymomof2:

*Edited to cut the quote tree*

Except that isn't what we are talking about, is it?

It's not about compassion for the needy.  It's about advocating for women in leadership positions by mentoring, supporting.  Putting another woman forward for a challenging position when you are in a position to hire or recommend.  

It looks as though a straight answer to my specific question is not forthcoming.  It is obvious you diagree with Albright's quote, you have explained why and I understand what you are saying.  I just vehemently disagree with your conclusions.  This sidebar about helping needy people is apparently meant to disguise the fact that you do not wish to acknowledge your previous statements, or defend them if challenged.  It's not a convincing ploy, so I think it is fair for me to conclude you have no real argument about why you feel women supporting other women makes men the enemy.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Anyone who could walk away and not advocate for someone who is in need, is compassion challenged, and limited as a human being.
Quoting stacymomof2:

OK, well I think I understood your general position.  My point below is that you seem to think that specifically women who mentor other women and encourage other women to do so are purposefully making an enemy out of men by their encouragement.  Because that's what you said, and reinforced it by saying women who mentor or encourage others to mentor are "making excuses" by recognizing that there is such a thing as a "good ol' boys" club.

I am just trying to follow your logic that women supporting other women are making excuses.

Quoting KamWorthy:

We are discussing a comment made by M. Albright, correct? We are deciphering what she meant when she made said comment as a part of the speech she gave to a group of women athletes, correct? We are also discussing in what context Taylor Swift may have quoted Ms Albright, yes? It's very simple Stacy.....I don't believe there is a special place in hell for women who won't help women. I dont think hell cares. I do however feel, hypothetically of course, that if hell was biased when it came to sin, that there would be a special corner for people who thought themselves higher than everyone else, those who harmed or killed children, animals the elderly....etc....but to say that women will go to hell for not helping women, is nothing more that a statement of self-superiority and entitlement. So, no Stacy, though the easiest, most obvious comment, which you chose, was to say I must not like women, is incorrect. I don't favor women over men, nor do I favor children over women, or children over men, or women over children, or men over children, or men over women. Now that I've made it very elementary for you, what do you think I think? I'll tell you...I believe in equality. When it comes to support, help, assistance, mentoring, encouragement, etc....there is no gender, only a human being as far as I'm concerned.






stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had admitted it in another thread.  I must be mistaken, then.  I'll just say then that you remind me a lot of another member.

Quoting KamWorthy:

It's also not uncommon when a member becomes desperate and out of ammo, to sink to claiming their oppenant has an alt account. Just a little warning, they are coming down hard on members like you.
Quoting stacymomof2:

Okay then, if that is how you want to see it.

 You are LBN, isn't that an accepted fact by now?  Because I remember having conversations with you like this in the past.  I remember you thinking that other posters really focused on your opinions and life experiences, and that you think people disagreeing with you are "intolerant." I swear we have had this exact same exchange in the past.

Quoting KamWorthy:

Well then the only thing your comment proves is that you are frustrated with my opinion, and my education, and life experiences as well as demonstrates your intolerance for opinions opposite of yours. It's understood, noted.
Quoting stacymomof2:

The underlined is BS and doesn't follow.  There is no evidence to support it except whatever you are making up in your head.  That is what this entire exchange was about, the reason you came to that conclusion.  I see there is no reason for that except your personal opinion.  You seem to think supporting women is taking something away from men.  Apparently you are not capeable of seeing that one is not a detriment to the other.

Spare me your poetry "appreciation" class in college, I took many myself as an English Lit major.  It doesn't have anything to do with a statement made by a political figure about a political subject.  Furthermore I assume you were required to know context in order to read poetry as well.  You will miss too much without context, literary criticism is not just about your personal opinion from a current perspective.  I never read one poem or book without having to know the circumstances it was written in.

Quoting KamWorthy:

There are some quotes that are universally deciphered the same way by most. Of course there are some that take more thought. In my Sonets appreciation class (college days) the professor would have us read a portion from a love lorned individual. He would ask us what we took away from it, and yet he never told anyone they were wrong for their interpretation. Women who only support other women in need are usually women who see men as the enemy. Take for example the campagne manager of a Liberal wood-be president. He would never be caught managing for a conservative unless of course he had a change of heart, mind and ethics. It is not rocket science.




Jcothrine
by Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 10:11 PM

then a lot of CMers are going to hell...lol... mostly the anon bitches in mom confessions!



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