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"White Boy Bleed Alot": 12-yr old White Boy Bullied- Killed: Media Hides Race of the Two Thugs Who Killed Him

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This is a further discussion on the thread of the boy that was beaten by 2 classmates & died.  I don't usually like to put up post about race, but since we are always seeing posts on what a White person has done to a Black person we need to hear the other stories. I feel that this needs to be brought up.  Justice has to be for ALL, not for just some. These 2 Black boys were only suspended for 2 days.  Why?  The Black communities are always angered about our Justice System.  How about this? 

1 of the 2 tormenters punched him so hard that he broke the boy's nose & left him with a concussion.  The school only suspended the boys for 2 days.  Questions are being raised that maybe it's the "Quotoas for Black discipline".  That Obama has implemented it in his "August Executive Order". 

  I'm sure this thread will not get the proper discussion, but there will be angry posts towards me as usual.   But, for those that just want to discuss what is going on in America, why the Media is leaving out the race of these classmates.  Yet when it comes to stories of conerning violence & Whites, Whites are always in the title of a thread. 

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/03/06/media-hides-race-or-the-two-thugs-who-killed-him/

or try:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/03/06/white-boy-bleed-alot-12-year-old-white-boy-

 

**As usual I'm having trouble with put up links, I will try to continue to fix this**

 

 

by on Mar. 6, 2013 at 11:40 AM
Replies (581-590):
Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 5:39 PM

When you are quoting me, yes you can use my name.  But what you do here & other threads is use my name when you're posting to other people.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

This is your topic, is it not? You are notified everytime a post is made in, aren't you? I have not posted something behind your back.

If you want to link to racist websites and post an article that has nothing to do about race and claim it has something to do with race. Take responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chiken shit.

 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?

Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.

We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.



Quoting masonmomma:

Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.


Quoting masonmomma:

Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.



 


 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 5:48 PM
1 mom liked this


Can you show me a Topic that you did not start where I used your name?

This is your topic. My point was it was not behind your back. It was not somewhere you would not find it or see. And it is not something I never discussed with you before.

I was not the only person that pointed out that the article you used is from a racist website and implies things that are completely untre (Like that it is a fact that Bailey died because of the kids and that the kids are thugs).

You could update it with an actual news source that uses facts and doesn't make things up. I, and other people, are not going to keep asking you to do so. Nor do you have to. But if you are going to link to a racist website, that makes up accusations, and ignores facts, and then use it to imly racial tension where there is none.

She asked who said it was a racist attack. You are a clear example of that since it is your topic, and you are one of the people who continue to suggest it might be and continue to link to the article suggesting it was.

This is not another topic you are not part of. This is your topic.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

When you are quoting me, yes you can use my name.  But what you do here & other threads is use my name when you're posting to other people.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


This is your topic, is it not? You are notified everytime a post is made in, aren't you? I have not posted something behind your back.

If you want to link to racist websites and post an article that has nothing to do about race and claim it has something to do with race. Take responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chiken shit.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?

Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.

We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.



Quoting masonmomma:

Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:


Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.


Quoting masonmomma:

Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.




















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jllcali
by LoyalAndCute on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:07 PM
1 mom liked this
I am not defending the attackers. I am not condoning what they did at all. I am not saying they are should not be charged with anything. What makes you think I am blaming the parents? I have said no such thing.

My lack of integrity? How so? Because I am discussing this case and the realistic possibilities it involves in a rational manner?


Even the parents of Bailey are not screaming for these kids' heads. Which leads me to believe that while I have no doubt they are grieving an unimaginable loss, they realize that a punch in the face, especially from a child is not usually sufficient to kill a person, and thus are waiting for the investigation that is ongoing to be completed before demanding charges be filed.



Quoting lokilover:




Quoting jllcali:

Are you an investigator or doctor directly involved in this case? If not, then your opinion on whether or not the child had preexisting (whether known or not) medical conditions or if the fight was the cause of death in this child is uninformed and irrelevant.



If the investigation bears out that the child died as a direct result of the fight and not an unrelated medical condition or negligence, then I absolutely agree with the boys being charged. I do not agree the charges should be murder though. There has been no evidence presented indicating the boys set out with the intention of killing the victim or anyone else. Involuntary manslaughter, yes. Which is likely what an adult in a similar situation would be charged with.





Quoting Naturewoman4:

Of course, I know that a DA has to have evidence & I don't think it's ok to prosecute on hearsay.  This attack was caught on video.  I don't believe this boy had preexisting health issues.  I do believe it was the result of the punches to his face & then his head hit the cement.  Now, what we'll have to wait to find out is if the school should be held partly responsible?  Or the fact that the parents didn't take immediate action?  I did hear that the school didn't inform the parents until a few hrs. later. 



I'm wondering if the school even told the parents that their son's head hit the cement.  But, I still feel this issue that is happening in our schools needs to be discussed.  Our schools in this Country is out of control.  Not just the bullying, which is a problem.  But, the guns being brought on campus, the shootings, & attacks such as this.  This imo, should bring charges against these 2 attackers.  Because, the end result is the death of a boy, that didn't want to fight.  He was not just shoved & bullied.  Their needs to be consequences to kids actions.  If not, this will go on & on. 






Quoting jllcali:

The family thinks he was bullied, but the DA found.no evidence of that, according to your statement. You do realize the DA needs evidence to prosecute, right? Or are you okay with people being prosecuted on hearsay?


Also, if the kid had symptoms immediately, and the parents did not take him to the doctor when the symptoms presented, they are guilty of not seeking medical treatment for their injured child.

It is very rare that a child die from the relatively minor force of a punch from another child, even if he struck his head. I can tell you from personal experience, it happens often that a kid gets punched and hits their head and not die. Even if it's an adult doing the punching. It is very possible that there was something medically wrong, possibily preexisting that contributed to this child's death. Which is why people need to calm down and wait for the investigation to be completed.





Quoting Naturewoman4:



Brooke, that's the point.  It is a person's opinion, which is fine.  I have always put that fact, imo....just my opinion.  Anyway, this thread is meant to be discussing Obama.  I did I admit, brought up his name.  I answered some questions of another poster.  Ok, so I'm not going to turned this thread into a Pro-Obama or Anti-Obama.  Back to my thread.




Here's some more info. I just read about this case.  Bailey sustained a concussion, broken nose & other injuries.  Jan 10, 2013.  The attack was caught on video.  Family only said they are convinced he was bullied.  Yet, the DA on this case, said he has found no evidence of that.  If this turns out to be the truth, then questions are to was it a 'hate crime'.  Even if it is proven not to be, it is murder.  Therefore, the attackers need to be held accountable.




Bailey hit his head on the ground (probably cement) after the punched to his face.  Which caused the concussion.  His mom said after that Bailey just wasn't right about the boy.  True, I don't know why the parents or the school didn't insist on Bailey going to the hospital to be checked out.  Soon after that her son wasn't feeling good, was tired & irritable.  That's when they took him to the hospital & they discovered he did have a concussion.  1 1/2 wks. later had seizures, every 3 seconds.  He had "Refractory Status Epilepsies", a condition which the brain is in a state of persistent seizure. 




cont.)




 








Quoting brookiecookie87:




It's your opinion. Please don't pretend your opinions are fact. Watch this. It's my Opinion that 98% of America loves Obama. If you disagree you are just part of the 2% that hates him.

See how completely pointless that statement is?




What I said makes sense. You just fell into the former statement. You are assuming every republican/conservative dislikes Obama like you do.

What 47% do you believe knew they were going to vote for Obama? Are you talking about the people who don't pay Income Taxes? Because you realize that a lot of those people are conservative and Republicans as well, right?

Are you suggesting there were alot of Republicans and Conservatives voting for Obama?

And if you are. Doesn't that contradict the statement you made earlier? If almost half of the country dislikes him like you do, why would a portion of those people be voting for him?




Quoting Naturewoman4:




Well first of all, I said "almost".  It's my opinion.  Unless, someone or myself takes a poll from the whole Country, of course it is just my opinion.  Brooke, what you said doesn't make sense.  Obviously, IF 'under' 50% didn't vote for Romney, Romney wouldn't of won.  Heck, 47% of Americans already knew they were going to vote for Obama.  Romney received a lot of votes still from Americans.  I said 'almost' half the Country, is just a figure of speech.




  But, the fact is the Reps. (Romney) received a hell of a lot of votes.  Obama NOT winning in a land slide, still says that A LOT of people don't like Obama.  To me, that is quite obvious.  Even those States that Romney lost, still he received A LOT of votes.  To me, that says a lot.  That says, that A LOT of Americans dislike Obama, even hate Obama & his policies. Why deny it?   








Quoting brookiecookie87:








Can you provide a source for your claim that at least half the country doesn't like Obama?

And I have to ask if almost half the country doesn't like Obama how come that almost half + Republicans didn't win the Election?

Or are you assuming that every republican dislikes Obama?















Your defense of these attackers is pretty disgusting enough, but the fact that you are actually insinuating that the parents are at fault is really terrible. I shudder to think that you're a parent. One can not imagine what you are raising, given your complete lack of integrity during this discussion around an innocent boy's death.

Even if he had a preexisting medical condition, they should still be charged for exacerbating that condition which lead to his death. Even if their attack was completely unrelated to his death (unlikely given the timing), they should still be charged with assault.



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Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:15 PM
1 mom liked this

Brooke, you always put up threads that are racial in nature.  You seem to have no problem bashing Whites every chance you get.  Plus, I don't ever see you having a problem when someone else puts up a thread about what horrible things Whites have done.  Yeah, but I know what you are going to say. That you & the poster that does, has the facts/evidence.  Where as people that post what has been done to a White person, along with the evidence, you say it's not fact. 

I put up this thread yes & I would do it all over again.  The facts are that the Media IS reporting false info.  I just want things to be fair, if they're going to report about what a White person has done, then they shouldn't intentionally try to hide the fact of the race of the two that attacked this boy.  What raises my suspicion is the fact it was 2 blacks punks, against 1 white boy.  That the Media just happens to leave that out.  If it was 2 whites attacking 1 black person, then it would be reportd in the Media I'm positive of that. Then here on CM we would all hear about it.  You know it & I know it. 

 Which people should because this has got to stop!  I'm just reporting it here, because I didn't see anyone else doing that.  Like it or not Brooke, it happens in ALL races. This is such a troubling issue.  Kids are not safe in their own schools & what is the Gov./Schools & parents doing about it!  IMO nothing!  So, this will continue & I feel so bad for those moms that have to now worry about what is happening in their kids schools.  You can say I'm standing up for my race, just like you or others stick up for other races.  I may not go into those threads because I know how some people are that goes into those threads.  That's why I avoid those.  But, it doesn't mean I think they shouldn't put it up. 

 I have my own feelings towards injustices, so that's why I post.  Just like you or anyone else. If it makes people upset by just seeing this title, then perhaps it's best not to enter. Just like I do when I see a thread title that is offensive to me, I just skip it & not enter. 


Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

This is your topic, is it not? You are notified everytime a post is made in, aren't you? I have not posted something behind your back.

If you want to link to racist websites and post an article that has nothing to do about race and claim it has something to do with race. Take responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chiken shit.

 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?

Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.

We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.



Quoting masonmomma:

Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.


Quoting masonmomma:

Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.



 


 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:24 PM

I don't know how to do all that cutting/pasting sort of stuff on a computer. My point is, when you are speaking to another poster, quoting them.  Then, you bring up my name in the discussion with other posters, that to me is talking behind someone's back.  A very childish thing to do.  That's what grade school kids do.  This is my topic & I'm not always the center of a discussion.  People are quoting other people & some may be having disagreements & arguments.  Just because I'm the one that posted this thread, doesn't mean I'm responsible o everyone's own words & opinions. 


Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Can you show me a Topic that you did not start where I used your name?

This is your topic. My point was it was not behind your back. It was not somewhere you would not find it or see. And it is not something I never discussed with you before.

I was not the only person that pointed out that the article you used is from a racist website and implies things that are completely untre (Like that it is a fact that Bailey died because of the kids and that the kids are thugs).

You could update it with an actual news source that uses facts and doesn't make things up. I, and other people, are not going to keep asking you to do so. Nor do you have to. But if you are going to link to a racist website, that makes up accusations, and ignores facts, and then use it to imly racial tension where there is none.

She asked who said it was a racist attack. You are a clear example of that since it is your topic, and you are one of the people who continue to suggest it might be and continue to link to the article suggesting it was.

This is not another topic you are not part of. This is your topic.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

When you are quoting me, yes you can use my name.  But what you do here & other threads is use my name when you're posting to other people.

 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

This is your topic, is it not? You are notified everytime a post is made in, aren't you? I have not posted something behind your back.

If you want to link to racist websites and post an article that has nothing to do about race and claim it has something to do with race. Take responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chiken shit.

 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?

Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.

We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.



Quoting masonmomma:

Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.


Quoting masonmomma:

Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.



 


 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

jllcali
by LoyalAndCute on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:30 PM
3 moms liked this
This statement makes no sense. This is a post you made. Therefore you are notified anytime anyone comments on it. It is not bringing you up in a post you can't see. THAT would be behind your back. Did you forget you made this post?

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke, if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chicken shit.


 


Quoting brookiecookie87:


 


Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?


Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?



Quoting brookiecookie87:


Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.


We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.




Quoting masonmomma:


Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 


Quoting brookiecookie87:


 


Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.



Quoting masonmomma:


Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


 


I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.




 



 




 



 


 


 


 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:38 PM
1 mom liked this


Please don't make things up. My last several topics:

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18180180/Sean_McCutcheon_Armed_Highland_School_Officer_Accidentally_Discharges_Gun_District_Puts_Program_On_H

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18184442/Sen_Warren_Why_Jail_Pushers_But_Not_Bankers

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18183081/Dotcom_wins_right_to_sue

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18166678/Anonymous_posts_personal_data_of_4_000_bankers_online

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18166846/After_Being_Cut_From_Norway_The_Pirate_Bay_Returns_From_North_Korea

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/18078752/Elizabeth_Warren_Embarrasses_Hapless_Bank_Regulators_At_First_Hearing

Shall I continue?

I don't bash whites everytime I get. If someone like you post an article that doesn't have any racism in it but claim there is I will point out they are wrong (If they are wrong).

Do you know what a fact is? Did you look at the several links I gave earlier in this topic where I actually showed racism? Where the white guys burned down a church where the majority of the people are black and they confess they did it because of their race. The one where a white teenager ran over a black man. And he confessed he often went out to harrass or assault black people.

Those are cases of racism. There is nothing to indicate race was involved here.

Black punks. Why do you call them punks? Do you know they are punks? Are are they just punks because they are black?

There are countless articles from all different media sources on this topic. YOU choose to pick the one racist site that reported on it. And you refuse to replace it with a legit news article that doesn't speculate, call names, and leave facts out.

You can do that if you want. But don't be surprised when people call you out on it.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke, you always put up threads that are racial in nature.  You seem to have no problem bashing Whites every chance you get.  Plus, I don't ever see you having a problem when someone else puts up a thread about what horrible things Whites have done.  Yeah, but I know what you are going to say. That you & the poster that does, has the facts/evidence.  Where as people that post what has been done to a White person, along with the evidence, you say it's not fact. 

I put up this thread yes & I would do it all over again.  The facts are that the Media IS reporting false info.  I just want things to be fair, if they're going to report about what a White person has done, then they shouldn't intentionally try to hide the fact of the race of the two that attacked this boy.  What raises my suspicion is the fact it was 2 blacks punks, against 1 white boy.  That the Media just happens to leave that out.  If it was 2 whites attacking 1 black person, then it would be reportd in the Media I'm positive of that. Then here on CM we would all hear about it.  You know it & I know it. 

 Which people should because this has got to stop!  I'm just reporting it here, because I didn't see anyone else doing that.  Like it or not Brooke, it happens in ALL races. This is such a troubling issue.  Kids are not safe in their own schools & what is the Gov./Schools & parents doing about it!  IMO nothing!  So, this will continue & I feel so bad for those moms that have to now worry about what is happening in their kids schools.  You can say I'm standing up for my race, just like you or others stick up for other races.  I may not go into those threads because I know how some people are that goes into those threads.  That's why I avoid those.  But, it doesn't mean I think they shouldn't put it up. 

 I have my own feelings towards injustices, so that's why I post.  Just like you or anyone else. If it makes people upset by just seeing this title, then perhaps it's best not to enter. Just like I do when I see a thread title that is offensive to me, I just skip it & not enter. 


Quoting brookiecookie87:


This is your topic, is it not? You are notified everytime a post is made in, aren't you? I have not posted something behind your back.

If you want to link to racist websites and post an article that has nothing to do about race and claim it has something to do with race. Take responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Brooke if you want to continue using my name in your post like you do a lot,  just say it to my face.   Talking behind people's back is a chiken shit.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


Naturewoman4. And plenty of other people who read the article she posted.

In the Bailey case there is no mention of racial tension from him, his mom, the school, the news, or the Police. But she still felt it was worth pointing out.

There is nothing to connect race to the situation. After the attack Bailey went back to class with an ice pack.  A two day suspension seems about right for that. The probably is the article implies he was killed after the fight and that the two events were related (His death and the fight). Those are all assumptions.

You are proving my point. Sometimes things take a long time to show up. He played baseball. What if he hit his head while playing? what if it is some disease that he had prior and just didn't know? Could it be the hit he recieved? Or falling on the floor and hitting his head? Absolutely. Is that the only possiblity? Absolutely not.

Don't you think it makes more sense to wait till the autopsy before just blaming the kids as guilty?

Why would Jesse Jackson be up in arms about this? Do gun advocacy groups stand up for animals? Does PETA stand up for the oil industry?

If you want to stand up and protest. do it. Don't expect other people to.

And to answer your question because a lot of times crimes are racially motivated. Earlier I posted several links of crimes commited against black people because they were black. Not because the white person wanted money, or desired some items. But because the black person wanted to hurt a black person. Those are the cases that those groups like to protest.

They don't pick up every violent act from a white to black and just randomly claim racism. Notice the difference between something like that and something like this case? Where the kid that did the attack was black, and the perosn he hit is white but there is nothing to connect it as racially motivated?

Quoting masonmomma:

Who said they bbeat his ass because he is white. I believe why they haven't gotten in trouble being connected to the race is what is in question. (Funny how the naive oh and racist yourself, mind works).
no information that connects the 2? do you think causes those things to happen? They would have ruled out a medical condition a long damn time ago so that leaves head trauma as the cause (what do you want to bet that is what is released as the cause, ill be happy to take the bash if it is not). And the actions that those, yes little shits, did can absolutly cause head trauma. I've seen smaller incidents cause head trauma and until the tape is released, its hard to say one hit but frankly doesn't change a damn thing. Sometimes, head trauma takes a while to present itself. Sometimes syptoms can be masked or ignored. Can something else have cause the head trauma, yes, but the question is will it be automatically assumed that them jumping him wont be the cause simply because they are black. You bet your ass, and there is a shit load of reasons to believe that. How is that ok? How is THAT not racism? Why is jesse jackson and the other of his like not up in arms blasting it on the news that these kids even jumped the other one? Why in the hell is it that anyone who questions it (due to other incidents) automatically labeled a racist? Is a woman who has been raped or all of her friends assulted by men in some way, a sexist because she is suspicious of men?


Quoting brookiecookie87:

Even your known information is wrong.

The Facts are.

ONE kid punched Bailey in the face who then fell and hit his head.

A week and a half later he started having seizures and two months later he died.

There is no known information at the moment that connects the two. There is an autopsy underway and a Police investigation.

We don't know the kid died as a result of "thugs", or "little shits" (The racist mind is a funny thing).

We don't know if the two black kids involved are trouble makers, thugs, or gangsters.

And there would be an uproar if white kids jumped a black kid because they are racist and the kid was black and they wanted to inflict pain on black people. That is a COMPLETELY different situation this one where there appears to be no racial motivation for the attack.



Quoting masonmomma:

Here is the KNOWN information. A kid died as a result of two little shits jumping him and not a damn thing has been done about it. No one can deny if the kids doing the jumping had been white, there would be an uproar. THAT is racism. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:


Backwards?

I acknowledge there is not enough information to make a judgment so I withhold judjement. That is not backwards. That is the way it is suppose to be.

You don't see enough information but you see that he is black so you make the assumption that he is in the thug life and wants to be a thug despite that there is no information to support that.

That is backwards. That is racism.


Quoting masonmomma:

Whatever, think how you want. Ive seen enough of your backwards ass naive bs to know where this is going.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


I don't assume he is not. I don't know if he is not. That is not an assumption. That is saying, "There is no information to make that judgement. So I will withold judgement".

Not an assumption. You are making an assumption where there is no information based on your racism.

A group of people being racist doesn't make the racist remark more valid.




















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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:42 PM
1 mom liked this


Then don't do the cutting/pasting sort of stuff. Just tell me the name of it and I will find it. If it exist. I don't think it does.

This is your topic. So we will have to disagree on this. You get a notice whenever there is a reply here. If someone ask who would suggest this was racist and this is your topic. It becomes obvious to point to the obvious example.

Behind someones back would suggest it was behind your back. This has been addressed with you and you refused to change. I am not going to keep repeating it to you. But if someone ask for a example in your topic and you are a perfect example of it. It is not talking behind your back. Your topic. It's in your face. Again. I am not going to keep asking you to edit or update your post. You want it to be about race so you keep using the racist website as your link. That's your choice. Just own up to it. I am not asking you to own up for other peoples opinions. Just your own.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

I don't know how to do all that cutting/pasting sort of stuff on a computer. My point is, when you are speaking to another poster, quoting them.  Then, you bring up my name in the discussion with other posters, that to me is talking behind someone's back.  A very childish thing to do.  That's what grade school kids do.  This is my topic & I'm not always the center of a discussion.  People are quoting other people & some may be having disagreements & arguments.  Just because I'm the one that posted this thread, doesn't mean I'm responsible o everyone's own words & opinions. 


Quoting brookiecookie87:


Can you show me a Topic that you did not start where I used your name?

This is your topic. My point was it was not behind your back. It was not somewhere you would not find it or see. And it is not something I never discussed with you before.

I was not the only person that pointed out that the article you used is from a racist website and implies things that are completely untre (Like that it is a fact that Bailey died because of the kids and that the kids are thugs).

You could update it with an actual news source that uses facts and doesn't make things up. I, and other people, are not going to keep asking you to do so. Nor do you have to. But if you are going to link to a racist website, that makes up accusations, and ignores facts, and then use it to imly racial tension where there is none.

She asked who said it was a racist attack. You are a clear example of that since it is your topic, and you are one of the people who continue to suggest it might be and continue to link to the article suggesting it was.

This is not another topic you are not part of. This is your topic.

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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 9, 2013 at 6:56 PM
1 mom liked this

So your argument is that most of the black people you see are thugs?  Just trying to clarify.

Yes, I leave the house all the time, thanks for checking.

Pavlov's dog?  Can you draw the comparison for me?  I am not following how conditioning to create a biological response has anything to do with "A-A-B-B" patterns, or black people, or assumptions.  I'm afraid you will have to clarify if you want me to follow your argument.  Otherwise I'm just going to have to dismiss it as ranting.

Quoting masonmomma:

You ever left your house?? Check out some websites for them, listen to the music popular in that culture, check out statistics. Look are all black people like that, of fucking course not, come the hell on, but its hard to not suspect that is what was going on given the actions by the majority. Let me give you an example A-A-B-B-A-A-B-B-? see the pattern, what comes next? Also look up all about Pavlov's dog before people bitch about others "assumptions".

Quoting stacymomof2:

You think the majority of black people are thugs or live the "thug life?" 

Where do you get that from?

Quoting masonmomma:

And you assume he is not. Fact of the matter is we will never know so I will go with the majority.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

So you are going to assume because he is black he is in the "thug life". That is by definition racism.

How do I not know? What kind of backwards thinking is that? I don't know which is why I am not assuming he is.

My thinking is not backwards, or naive. I am not making assumptions. That is why I require proof/evidence before assuming he is a thug, in the thug life, or listens to gangster rap.

No assumptions. You are making assumptions. Ones that are not backed up by anything other than your racism.

Not every black person thinks thug is a good thing. Or a badge of honor. That is something you presume because of your racism.

Quoting masonmomma:

Do I know? No, but given the vast majoirty, I think its safe to assume that they to were running the "thug life" and use the term thug not as derogatory but as some type of badge of honor.
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW? Your want to bitch about my "racist" assumptions, well im bitching about you ass backwards, naive assumptions.
Bitch about the term thugs when it is no longer taken as a good thing by the majority in question. That is the damn point so stop trying to turn this into a stupid ass "racist assumption" debate.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


What are you rambling about? No one claimed any of the kids are not black.

You are making the assumption that because they are black they listen to thug music, and want to be thugs. That is your racist view-Not mine.

I am pointing out your assumption to you. So let me ask the question again.

How do you know what music he listens to? Or are you just assuming he listens to gangster rap because he is black and all black people are gangster/thugs?





katy_kay08
by on Mar. 9, 2013 at 7:04 PM
2 moms liked this

following her convoluted logic we could draw the conclusion that most white people are violent sex offenders since the majority of them are white. 

I honestly hope the OP doesn't delete this post.  It will definitely get bumped the next time she "vents" that she doesn't know why people think she has a race problem.   I did get quite a kick out of the "I'm more racist since Obama became President."  That was classic.  

Quoting stacymomof2:

So your argument is that most of the black people you see are thugs?  Just trying to clarify.

Yes, I leave the house all the time, thanks for checking.

Pavlov's dog?  Can you draw the comparison for me?  I am not following how conditioning to create a biological response has anything to do with "A-A-B-B" patterns, or black people, or assumptions.  I'm afraid you will have to clarify if you want me to follow your argument.  Otherwise I'm just going to have to dismiss it as ranting.

Quoting masonmomma:

You ever left your house?? Check out some websites for them, listen to the music popular in that culture, check out statistics. Look are all black people like that, of fucking course not, come the hell on, but its hard to not suspect that is what was going on given the actions by the majority. Let me give you an example A-A-B-B-A-A-B-B-? see the pattern, what comes next? Also look up all about Pavlov's dog before people bitch about others "assumptions".

Quoting stacymomof2:

You think the majority of black people are thugs or live the "thug life?" 

Where do you get that from?

Quoting masonmomma:

And you assume he is not. Fact of the matter is we will never know so I will go with the majority.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

So you are going to assume because he is black he is in the "thug life". That is by definition racism.

How do I not know? What kind of backwards thinking is that? I don't know which is why I am not assuming he is.

My thinking is not backwards, or naive. I am not making assumptions. That is why I require proof/evidence before assuming he is a thug, in the thug life, or listens to gangster rap.

No assumptions. You are making assumptions. Ones that are not backed up by anything other than your racism.

Not every black person thinks thug is a good thing. Or a badge of honor. That is something you presume because of your racism.

Quoting masonmomma:

Do I know? No, but given the vast majoirty, I think its safe to assume that they to were running the "thug life" and use the term thug not as derogatory but as some type of badge of honor.
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW? Your want to bitch about my "racist" assumptions, well im bitching about you ass backwards, naive assumptions.
Bitch about the term thugs when it is no longer taken as a good thing by the majority in question. That is the damn point so stop trying to turn this into a stupid ass "racist assumption" debate.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


What are you rambling about? No one claimed any of the kids are not black.

You are making the assumption that because they are black they listen to thug music, and want to be thugs. That is your racist view-Not mine.

I am pointing out your assumption to you. So let me ask the question again.

How do you know what music he listens to? Or are you just assuming he listens to gangster rap because he is black and all black people are gangster/thugs?






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