Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

How do you feel about Arkansas law banning abortions at 12 weeks?

Posted by   + Show Post

Abortions at 12 Weeks Should Never Be Illegal

by Maressa Brown

ultrasoundWhen it comes to abortion laws, there's absolutely no consensus on what we all as Americans feel is appropriate. But in Arkansas this week, state lawmakers have decided they know what's best -- passing a law that prohibits abortion at 12 weeks of pregnancy, which is when a fetal heartbeat can typically be detected by an abdominal ultrasound. Even after Gov. Mike Beebe, a Democrat, called it "blatantly unconstitutional" and vetoed it. Now the state has what will be by far the country's most restrictive ban on abortion.

To be fair, it's a very hazy issue on which even people who consider themselves pro-choice find themselves grappling with. When should it simply be just too late to terminate a pregnancy? I'd argue that 12 weeks is far too early. Fetal heartbeat or not, there is a need for abortions to be legal that "late in the game."

While 88 percent of all abortions are obtained within the time period Arkansas is specifying, a post-12 week abortion should not be out of the question for various reasons ...

  1. Some women may not even recognize that they are pregnant until the pregnancy is advanced beyond that time frame -- due to irregular menstruation, thinking they're in menopause, believing they cannot become pregnant for various reasons (breastfeeding, undergoing medical treatment), or having their pregnancies initially misdiagnosed by physicians (it happens!).
  2. There are also instances where there are serious medical complications -- pregnant women are susceptible to cancer, heart disease, diabetes, severe depression, addictions, and other serious health problems. Surgery, X-rays, chemotherapy, or other treatment vital to a woman's health or life may come to a halt once the pregnancy is discovered. A woman might choose abortion if a continued pregnancy would worsen her condition and/or threaten her life, or if she requires further treatments that may damage a developing fetus. 
  3. A fetus could have severe abnormalities, like an undeveloped brain, a severe metabolic disorder, or no working kidney. She may wish to end the pregnancy rather than give birth to a child who will suffer and die in infancy or who will have severe disabilities. Unfortunately, the results of amniocentesis, one of the most important prenatal diagnostic tests, are generally not available until the 15th or 16th week of pregnancy, thus delaying the abortion decision.

These are just a few of a whole slew of scenarios that could influence a woman to seek an abortion after this inane deadline that Arkansas lawmakers are setting. And these scenarios are exactly why the limit established by Supreme Court gives women a right to an abortion until the fetus is viable outside the womb -- which is usually around 24 weeks into pregnancy. 

That said, it's hopeful that the Arkansas law is going to be found unconstitutional and overturned ASAP. (The ACLU is already gearing up to sue.) Because of course no one would wish any of the above on anyone, but live can take some unexpected turns, and Arkanas women deserve their constitutional right to do what's right for them and their fetus.

How do you feel about this law?

by on Mar. 8, 2013 at 11:05 AM
Replies (31-40):
Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 2:39 PM


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

I agree with you.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

Every woman should have this choice, regardless of circumstances.

At least up to a certain point in the pregnancy.  Which point in the pregnancy that is, I can't answer.

I would hope that by the end of the first trimester women would be aware of their decision.

There is another thread on this topic and it got me thinking............

I am indeed pro choice and as I stated, I do feel every woman should be able to make the choice for an elective abortion, no matter how the pregnancy came about.

But I've always assumed there was a point where such an elective procedure was not legally allowed.  I know that, many years ago, when I was 17 and had an abortion, once you were past your first trimester you could not have an elective abortion.   

Perhaps I am not as educated on this aspect as I thought and my assumptions were wrong.  

I am now thinking that perhaps, just perhaps, some who are pro choice mean that all the way through the pregnancy, for an elective abortion with no other reason?  


There are many regulations regarding abortions and the timeline. I would hazard to guess (Not knowing all pro choicers) that most people feel that late term abortions outside of the realm of the already in place legal restrictions are not okay.


StarburstKisses
by Bronze Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM
1 mom liked this


I dont know how someone could see that it has brain waves and a heart beat and think that it wasn't alive - or a seperate entity. I dont understand how someone could then, knowing this, kill it.

Quoting LindaClement:

It is a 'separate entity' when it's capable of living separate from the body.

We do not agree that a human is alive or dead based on brainwaves and heartbeats.

Quoting NewMom11222011:

I am not a huge fan of government intruding into private lives.  That being said, the two things typically used to define whether or not a human is alive or dead are heartbeat and brainwaves.  Both of those can be detected well before 12 weeks, so we are clearly talking about a separate living entity.  Many of the sensory cells are active by 12 weeks, so pain is felt.  This is why we will always debate the propriety of abortion and its timing.




Mrs.Kubalabuku
by Bronze Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 2:55 PM

It's tough.  Personally, I am pro-life.  I was raped by a stranger after being snatched off a bench, and ended up pregnant.  I could not abort the baby.  In the end, the baby was born at 20 weeks and died within a minute.  Some days, I wish I could go back and abort.  Other days, I'm glad I chose what I did.  

Just because my personal beliefs are more pro-life, though, I don't believe every woman should have to follow my views.  I am certain many other women would do better aborting the fetus under the circumstances I was in.  I wouldn't ever want to take that choice away from them.

I'm also fuzzy on when I believe a fetus is "alive."  My son was born at 20 weeks, and he cried once, then slowly died in my arms.  So I KNOW he was alive.  And the thought that I had another 4 weeks to abort him is crazy to me.

In all my pregnancies, I didn't feel like I had LIFE inside me at the same point.  It wasn't like week 12 rolled around and I magically felt like I was growing a life just because there was a heartbeat.  With my oldest now, 5 years old, I felt like he was alive with me at 8 weeks.  With my second living son, I didnt' feel close to him and like he was alive until I felt him kicking.

I want to say having a heartbeat is a good sign the baby is ALIVE, but have you seen pictures of fetal hearts?  It is one of the first things to develope and starts beating around 18-21 days of gestation, and they are nowhere near human looking but they have a heart.  They barely have anything other than a brain and a heart, they even still look like a tube and have barely grown limbs yet!  At this point, it looks like the fetus of many other mammals.

http://php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php?title=Fetal_ECHO_Meeting_2012    If you are interested in scientific information about early embryonic developements.

I think saying 12 weeks IS pushing it too soon.  I may not fully support the idea of 24 weeks, because that is when they could survive outside the womb, but I understand why that, and not the heartbeat, was used as the point of reference.  And I am more supportive of that than of the 12 week mark.  Then again, I held a 20 week baby in my arms, and I know that greatly changed my perception of it all.

Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Then don't have an abortion. Simple.

Fetuses are NOT separate entities. Babies are.

Quoting StarburstKisses:


I dont know how someone could see that it has brain waves and a heart beat and think that it wasn't alive - or a seperate entity. I dont understand how someone could then, knowing this, kill it.

Quoting LindaClement:

It is a 'separate entity' when it's capable of living separate from the body.

We do not agree that a human is alive or dead based on brainwaves and heartbeats.

Quoting NewMom11222011:

I am not a huge fan of government intruding into private lives.  That being said, the two things typically used to define whether or not a human is alive or dead are heartbeat and brainwaves.  Both of those can be detected well before 12 weeks, so we are clearly talking about a separate living entity.  Many of the sensory cells are active by 12 weeks, so pain is felt.  This is why we will always debate the propriety of abortion and its timing.






AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 3:47 PM
Silliness
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
honey27
by Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 3:54 PM
I guess people will go to other states that allow abortion after 12 weeks.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
KennyPooPoo22
by Member on Mar. 8, 2013 at 5:46 PM

How do I feel about it? Well given that I'm from AR, I feel like it sucks harder than Pamela Anderson

SoKamele
by on Mar. 8, 2013 at 8:45 PM

 It's a good start...to ban abortion completely.

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 8, 2013 at 8:59 PM

I am very disappointed in how my home state is now perceived.

I know very well that there are plenty of folks who live there upset with this law, just as they were when the legislature tried to make it illegal for single people to adopt/foster as an attempt to keep anyone who might be gay from adopting fostering. That was overturned. And I am hoping this stupid rule will be too.

Quoting KennyPooPoo22:

How do I feel about it? Well given that I'm from AR, I feel like it sucks harder than Pamela Anderson


Neon Washable Paint

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM

There are plenty of progressive voices in Arkansas still. Remember they managed to get a medical marijuana proposal on the vote last November.

It was voted down...but I am still holding out some hope for you guys yet. Wish I could still count my liberal vote for you....But my current red state needs it more. We are almost purple!

In all my life I never thought my current state would wind up being more progressive than Arkansas. SMDH.

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)