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Do you agree with Zerlina that we need to stop lecturing women and start teaching men not to rape?

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Teach Men Not to Rape: An Idea So Crazy It Just Might Work (VIDEO)

by Adriana Velez 

zerlina maxwellShould women carry a firearm in case of rape? People have been arguing over this question since Colorado state senator Evie Hudak told a rape survivor that "statistics are not on your side" as a potential rape victim even if you're carrying a concealed weapon. So what should we tell women about preventing rape? YOU ARE ASKING THE WRONG QUESTION, says rape survivor and political commentator Zerlina Maxwell.

Zerlina appeared on Sean Hannity's FOX News show over the weekend and introduced a rape prevention idea so radical, it blew people's minds: Teach men not to rape. Teach who not to what now? Brain hurts. Confused. Words not make sense. WHAT.

I'm kidding. Obviously it's the most sensible solution and it's sad that Maxwell got any blow back over it at all. But she did. Of course she did. Conservative news sites were all, "that's shocking!" and "bizarre" and she's "oversimplifying" and she "owes rape victims an apology!" I just ... I can't with these people. Oh -- and then there were all the rape threats she got from trolls on Facebook. Well done, asshats. Well done.

Anyway, here's how Zerlina put it on Hannity's show:

I don’t think that we should be telling women anything. I think we should be telling men not to rape women and start the conversation there. You’re talking about this as if it’s some faceless, nameless criminal, when a lot of times it’s someone you know and trust. If you train men not to grow up to become rapists, you prevent rape.

This is the chilling thing about rape. Sure, there's "evil" stranger danger out there. But most rapes are committed by men women know and trust. The Stuebenville boys accused of rape were just "average guys," Maxwell says. But we don't want to admit this! We don't want to admit that our sons, brothers, fathers, husbands, boyfriends, and friends are capable of rape. But we do need to wrap our heads around this idea. We need to believe "regular" guys are capable of rape (not just random "criminals"), and we need to educate these guys about what rape is and why they shouldn't do it.

Because there's a lot of men out there who haven't gotten the memo.

Anyway, Maxwell would like to see more training and conversations for men. She recently wrote up five ways we can teach men not to rape. And she'd like us to stop lying to women about how, if we would just stop acting like such sluts, we wouldn't get raped. "I don't want anybody to lecture a rape survivor about anything. And I don't want anybody telling women that if you don't wear a skirt or don't drink at all, you're going to be safe. That is a lie."

This reminds me of an incident at my college years ago. There had been a few attacks on women in the wooded area at the edge of campus. And so the university administration sent out the message to women: NEVER WALK ALONE. A few of us thought that was pathetic, and that maybe it's the men who can't be trusted to go anywhere alone?!?

So we came up with a crazy idea -- we put up flyers announcing that because of the attacks, men would be required to be escorted around campus by at least two females in order to demonstrate that they're not threatening. It was a joke, obviously. It was supposed to make people stop and ask themselves: Why is it women's responsibility to stop men from being violent? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Because people are defensive and literal-minded and sometimes just plain dumb, this idea went over a lot of heads. But I still want to believe we made a few people think. And I really hope Zerlina Maxwell is making people think (like, with their brains and everything) about how we're going about this whole rape prevention thing all wrong. What's it going to take, guys? Do you have the balls to learn -- and teach each other -- not to rape? Are you ready for that? Are you man enough?


Do you agree with Zerlina that we need to stop lecturing women and start teaching men not to rape?

by on Mar. 12, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Replies (101-106):
Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Mar. 14, 2013 at 6:21 AM
1 mom liked this
Quoting Carpy:

Nobody is saying certain choices mean you deserve it.   But certain choices put a person at higher risk.  Prostitutes are high risk for a reason.  They are easy prey.

I'd accept that, with two caveats.


You know the old joke:

Paul and Fred are walking through the jungle when they enter a glade and spot a lion approaching from the far side.   Fred immediately sits down and starts putting on his running shoes.

Paul asks: "Fred, why are you doing that?   You can't run faster than a lion, even wearing those shoes."

Fred replies: “I don’t have to run faster than the lion, I just have to run faster than you!”


While there are some muggers who are opportunists, there are also many who will hang out all evening until they find a target and then, once they have money in their pocket, they finish for the evening because they have enough to buy food, drugs, or whatever.

So to some extent, by reducing your own risk, all you're actually doing is changing who gets targetted, not reducing the number of muggings.


And, secondly, it is quite hard to work out how to dress in order to reduce your chances of getting raped.  It isn't just young physically attractive women who dress like prostitutes.

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 14, 2013 at 8:35 AM
I agree with what you are saying here, but the problem is that lots of folks would think what would happen to a woman like what happened to this girl wasn't really "legitimate rape". Only because this was photographed and talked about in a rude manner on social media and because of the age of the girl are people paying attention. Just read through this thread how many people hold women culpable for their "behavior" leading up to an attack. This is where we can teach our boys not to rape. No means No is ineffective, as this case proves. We need to teach that Yes means Yes and anything else is rape....and that some girls are off limits no matter what because of age.
Quoting ButterMeUp:

While I agree it's a woman's (well actually the disagreeing party, which ever gender) responsibility to say "no" or somethin of that nature, that goes out the window when the disagreeing party is unable to do so because of fear, physical bounds, or is unresponsive. That defense attorney is just reach, and that rope he's heaping at is about to break.

Quoting NWP:

Are you following the Steubenville trail? The defense is claiming that what happened to that girl wasn't rape because she didn't (was obviously unable To) say No. 

So do you agree that what happened to her was not rape?

Quoting JacksMom1221:

Every time I see a post like this I face palm. We do teach men not to rape women. We also teach not to murder, rob, speed, do drugs, abduct children, cheat, lie, etc. And that shit still happens. So, saying that it isn't a woman's responsibility to keep herself safe is just as stupid as saying it's not your responsibility to make sure you don't get murdered because society should teach people not to kill each order. It's not the victim's fault. Or saying we shouldn't protect our children from molestation or abduction because society should know better than to steal and rape children. Give me a fucking break. Ladies, continue doing what you have to do to stay safe because dumb fucks break the law,regardless of what they've been taught not to do.


Neon Washable Paint

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 14, 2013 at 8:49 AM

Apparently no one taught those boys that this wasn't "legitimate rape"...They are even using her inability to say no as a defense! Just look through the responses in this thread at how many feel a woman is culpable in an attack because of her behavior, dress or habits.

This is the problem with the No means No motto...we need to be teaching Yes means Yes and anything else is rape instead.

And it is proven effective in Canada. You cannot argue with the drop in sexual assault after they changed their approach to teaching men "not to be THAT guy".

Quoting JacksMom1221:

No, I'm not following that trial. But no, I don't agree that an intoxicated woman, or any person who is unable to say no, should be forcefully made.to have sex just because she/he didn't say no. That's not my point at all. I'm not saying that isn't rape; it is! I'm just saying that conrinually using the argument that we should teach men not to rape is a stupid argument because we already do teach that. I've never once heard that it's okay to rape anyone, not in high school, not in my social groups, not in college, in psychology classes, not in nursing school, nor in my time working in psych- not once have I ever ever heard anyone, male or female, say it's okay to rape another for any reason. Not once. So, society teaches that rape is wrong. And there is a prison sentence given to those who do. But, we also teach morally, religiously, judicially, etc that killing, stealing, physical assault, neglect, etc. are wrong, yet they still happen. Murders happen daily. Buy it's silly to say that a person shouldn't try to prevent a murder because the murderer should've been taught not to kill. No, we still lock our doors, get dogs and alarm systems, some.have weapons to keep ourselves and our family safe. So, we tell our daughters, and sons, to keep their bodies safe. Don't get too drunk, don't trust everyone, don't take drinks or drugs from strangers, be wary of who you get into a car with, etc. No, we shouldn't have to-in a perfect world. But the truth is our world is horrendously flawed. So we have to look out for ourselves.

Quoting NWP:

Are you following the Steubenville trail? The defense is claiming that what happened to that girl wasn't rape because she didn't (was obviously unable To) say No. 

So do you agree that what happened to her was not rape?

Quoting JacksMom1221:

Every time I see a post like this I face palm. We do teach men not to rape women. We also teach not to murder, rob, speed, do drugs, abduct children, cheat, lie, etc. And that shit still happens. So, saying that it isn't a woman's responsibility to keep herself safe is just as stupid as saying it's not your responsibility to make sure you don't get murdered because society should teach people not to kill each order. It's not the victim's fault. Or saying we shouldn't protect our children from molestation or abduction because society should know better than to steal and rape children. Give me a fucking break. Ladies, continue doing what you have to do to stay safe because dumb fucks break the law,regardless of what they've been taught not to do.



Neon Washable Paint

BaronSamedi
by Bronze Member on Mar. 14, 2013 at 7:34 PM

  The problem is that only an experienced woman can teach a man how to do sex right.   Men need good training in the art of seduction and sexing.   Sex ed is too clinical and does not teach skills.

gsprofval
by Silver Member on Mar. 14, 2013 at 7:55 PM
1 mom liked this

If men havn't learned not to rape women in 3000 years, what makes anyone think they can be taught now?  It's a stupid premise.

chloedee
by Bronze Member on Mar. 14, 2013 at 8:09 PM

If women of all shapes, sizes, races, religions, ages, hair colors, dressing styles and nationalities have been getting raped and abused since the beginning of time, what makes anyone think they can do anything to prevent it happening to them?

This defeatist attitude is what's truly stupid. 

Quoting gsprofval:

If men havn't learned not to rape women in 3000 years, what makes anyone think they can be taught now?  It's a stupid premise.



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