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S/O another rape question ETA

Posted by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:24 PM
  • 78 Replies
Majority on CM and the law state that a person under the influence is incapable of consent and therefore and sexual relations would count as rape.



That being said what if both parties are inebriated at the time? Who's the victim? Who's the rapist? Where do we draw the line between buyers remorse and rape?

ETA:
I'm going to add for those who have a hard time with reading comprehension. No where in the original post did I even allude to the Ohio case, because that is not what this post is about. This is a purely hypothetical question based on the laws surrounding inability to consent. I am not defending those boys actions nor am I saying they were victims too. If you want to freak out about that case please visit one of the hundred posts one this site dedicated to your cause!
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by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:24 PM
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brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:29 PM
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The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

And we are not talking, "I drank a few beers" drunk. We are talking about when one of the people cannot give consent. That is when it becomes Rapes.  As someone else said in one of the other threads. Yes means yes. Everything else is rape.

If you are too drunk to consent to sex. It is rape.

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katy_kay08
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM
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I guess I'm in the minority here because I don't buy into the line that an inebriated person cannot consent to sex.  There is a point where one may be incapable but it isn't as cut and dry as "drunk sex = rape".  

katy_kay08
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM
2 moms liked this

If they have sex and both "consented" while drunk who raped whom?  

Quoting brookiecookie87:

The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

It's pretty straight forward.


dommad2
by Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:31 PM
But legally a drunk person cannot consent so even if they both do consent it is not valid and a rape claim can be made by either!

Quoting brookiecookie87:

The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

It's pretty straight forward.

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dommad2
by Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:32 PM
I'll hang in the minority with you.

Quoting katy_kay08:

I guess I'm in the minority here because I don't buy into the line that an inebriated person cannot consent to sex.  There is a point where one may be incapable but it isn't as cut and dry as "drunk sex = rape".  

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pamelax3
by Gold Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Very good question.I am not sure, IMO rape is rape, no matter if both parties are drunk or sober.  . What is sad is that because of the women that have cried rape, makes it so difficult for the victims of rape, there is just no clear cut answer on that one

katy_kay08
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM
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In New York the distinction is made that you are only "mentally incapacitated" if you become inebriated/drugged without your consent.  Without looking at every state law, I don't think it's as simple as drunk = incapable of consent.  

Here are some of the definitions from NY's law database

"Mentally disabled" means that a person suffers from a mental disease or defect which renders him or her incapable of appraising the nature of his or her conduct.

"Mentally incapacitated" means that a person is rendered temporarily incapable of appraising or controlling his conduct owing to the influence of a narcotic or intoxicating substance administered to him without his consent, or to any other act committed upon him without his consent.

"Physically helpless" means that a person is unconscious or for any other reason is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.

"Forcible compulsion" means to compel by either: a. use of physical force; or b. a threat, express or implied, which places a person in fear of immediate death or physical injury to himself, herself or another person, or in fear that he, she or another person will immediately be kidnapped.

Quoting dommad2:

But legally a drunk person cannot consent do even if they both do consent it is not valid and a rape claim can be made by either!

Quoting brookiecookie87:

The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

It's pretty straight forward.


dommad2
by Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:36 PM
See now that makes sense!

Quoting katy_kay08:

In New York the distinction is made that you are only "mentally incapacitated" if you become inebriated/drugged without your consent.  Without looking at every state law, I don't think it's as simple as drunk = incapable of consent.  

Quoting dommad2:

But legally a drunk person cannot consent do even if they both do consent it is not valid and a rape claim can be made by either!



Quoting brookiecookie87:

The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

It's pretty straight forward.


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leesie86
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I'm going to be honest and say that I feel these cases are a waste of tax payer money. When alcohol is involved it makes it that much harder for a jury to convict without a reasonable doubt, and getting 12 people to agree is just insane. I'm sure it COULD happen, but the odds are in the defendants favor. The DA should try to plead them out on a lesser charge....

dommad2
by Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:39 PM
That same law mentions when the person is under 17 but again who's the victim if both are under 17

Quoting katy_kay08:

In New York the distinction is made that you are only "mentally incapacitated" if you become inebriated/drugged without your consent.  Without looking at every state law, I don't think it's as simple as drunk = incapable of consent.  

Here are some of the definitions from NY's law database

"Mentally disabled" means that a person suffers from a mental disease or defect which renders him or her incapable of appraising the nature of his or her conduct.

"Mentally incapacitated" means that a person is rendered temporarily incapable of appraising or controlling his conduct owing to the influence of a narcotic or intoxicating substance administered to him without his consent, or to any other act committed upon him without his consent.

"Physically helpless" means that a person is unconscious or for any other reason is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.

"Forcible compulsion" means to compel by either: a. use of physical force; or b. a threat, express or implied, which places a person in fear of immediate death or physical injury to himself, herself or another person, or in fear that he, she or another person will immediately be kidnapped.

Quoting dommad2:

But legally a drunk person cannot consent do even if they both do consent it is not valid and a rape claim can be made by either!



Quoting brookiecookie87:

The one committing the act of rape.

If two drunk people (of opposite sex) are in a room drunk and neither one attempts to rape the other. No rape.
If one of them decides to have sex while the other cannot consent. Rape.

It's pretty straight forward.


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