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New Wave Feminists: Not Feminist?

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Poll

Question: Is it possible to want/vote for abortion to be illegal, and be a feminist as well?

Options:

Yes

No

Other, explain


Only group members can vote in this poll.

Total Votes: 98

View Results

What are your thoughts on New Wave Feminist? Basically, they are pro-life feminists.

Can it be possible for someone to be actively be/vote against abortion (a woman's right), and be a feminist as well?

I don't mean someone who is personally against abortion, but doesn't care what others do. I am talking about women who are against abortion being legal, which takes away a womans right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, but say they are for womens rights, a feminist.


by on Mar. 19, 2013 at 3:18 PM
Replies (161-170):
KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:13 PM
This is the only time it was acceptable....when women read this perhaps they will understand why abortion should only be utilized when there is absolutely no other option.......http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/gisella-perl/
Quoting pansyprincess:

 So you are ok with killing a baby if the mom will die, or if the mom was raped?  So  it's ok to kill a baby sometimes?


Quoting gammie:

 

The Health and rape.

never ever for birth control!!!

Quoting pansyprincess:

 Is there ever a situation where you would be ok with a woman having an abortion?

 

Quoting gammie:

Most are against killing babies so yes you can be so called Feminist and respect life.

 

 

 

 


 

MsDenuninani
by Silver Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:16 PM

Then you and I think of motherhood differently.

I think I can't always choose whether or not to become pregnant, but I can always choose whether or not to become a mother.  Motherhood means the deliberate responsibility of another; pregnancy just means you are pregnant. 

To me, pregnancy is a medical condition; motherhood is a way of living. 

And you're right, all choices do have consequences. An abortion can be a consequence, too.

Quoting kailu1835:
I'm not confusing it at all, as they are one in the same. 
All choices have consequences.  Pregnancy and subsequent motherhood are a natural consequence of sex, as are STD's. 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

You're confusing the choice to have sex with the choice as to whether or not to be a mother.

Consent to sex is not consent to being a mom.

Quoting kailu1835:

 

Quoting kailu1835:

Your choices end when another's life is in the balance.  You make the choice whether or not to put a life in your uterus.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Yup, and also empowered to decide when and if they want to become a mother.  You want to take that choice away from a woman, I think you are not a feminist.  It doesn't make it true or not true, it just makes it my opinion on this question.  I don't know that there is a right answer, so I just answer in the way that I see it.

 

 

Quoting kailu1835:

Women are very empowered.  They are empowered to make their own choices about sex and conception.  Nobody should be empowered to take the life of an innocent human being.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.


 

 


 

 


 

 



 

kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:29 PM
1 mom liked this

Conception is a possible consequence of sex, even if you're using protection.  Plummeting to your death is a possible consequence of skydiving, even if you have a parachute.  So you're wrong again.

Quoting autodidact:


conception and sex are no more the same thing than plummeting to your squish death and skydiving are one and the same. 

Quoting kailu1835:

I'm not confusing it at all, as they are one in the same.  All choices have consequences.  Pregnancy and subsequent motherhood are a natural consequence of sex, as are STD's. 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

You're confusing the choice to have sex with the choice as to whether or not to be a mother.

Consent to sex is not consent to being a mom.

Quoting kailu1835:


Quoting kailu1835:

Your choices end when another's life is in the balance.  You make the choice whether or not to put a life in your uterus.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Yup, and also empowered to decide when and if they want to become a mother.  You want to take that choice away from a woman, I think you are not a feminist.  It doesn't make it true or not true, it just makes it my opinion on this question.  I don't know that there is a right answer, so I just answer in the way that I see it.



Quoting kailu1835:

Women are very empowered.  They are empowered to make their own choices about sex and conception.  Nobody should be empowered to take the life of an innocent human being.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.














babiesbabybaby development

kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:33 PM
1 mom liked this

*sigh*

We are one of the few Industrialized countries that views pregnancy as a medical condition.  Which is probably why we have the highest rate of maternal and neonatal death of any of them.

Quoting MsDenuninani:

Then you and I think of motherhood differently.

I think I can't always choose whether or not to become pregnant, but I can always choose whether or not to become a mother.  Motherhood means the deliberate responsibility of another; pregnancy just means you are pregnant. 

To me, pregnancy is a medical condition; motherhood is a way of living. 

And you're right, all choices do have consequences. An abortion can be a consequence, too.

Quoting kailu1835:
I'm not confusing it at all, as they are one in the same. 
All choices have consequences.  Pregnancy and subsequent motherhood are a natural consequence of sex, as are STD's. 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

You're confusing the choice to have sex with the choice as to whether or not to be a mother.

Consent to sex is not consent to being a mom.

Quoting kailu1835:


Quoting kailu1835:

Your choices end when another's life is in the balance.  You make the choice whether or not to put a life in your uterus.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Yup, and also empowered to decide when and if they want to become a mother.  You want to take that choice away from a woman, I think you are not a feminist.  It doesn't make it true or not true, it just makes it my opinion on this question.  I don't know that there is a right answer, so I just answer in the way that I see it.



Quoting kailu1835:

Women are very empowered.  They are empowered to make their own choices about sex and conception.  Nobody should be empowered to take the life of an innocent human being.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.














babiesbabybaby development

LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:36 PM

100% of the roots of Christianity are in heathen philosophy: every single doctrine is a direct ripoff, as is virutally every symbol. Every practice of every sect of Christianity is a mimic of earlier pagan and Jewish rituals, with a huge pile cobbled together over the millennia since as more and more converts were enticed in with familiarity.

If Jesus didn't die for your sins (because you and every other human were born perfect) what, exactly did he die for?

Quoting kailu1835:

I do not believe that anyone is responsible for anyone else's sin.  This is affirmed in scripture after scripture throughout the Bible.  We are born perfect and without sin.  It is not until we are older and capable of making conscious decisions that we are capable of sin.  Without knowing what is right or wrong, how can any child be held accountable?  An infant doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, all he or she knows is whether or not he or she is uncomfortable for whatever reason (wet, hungry, tummy ache, etc).  Original Sin is a complete fabrication perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church back in the 5th century, and is not supported anywhere in the Bible.  In fact, its very roots are in heathen philosophy.

Quoting LindaClement:

What 'innocent' are you talking about?

Where did Original Sin go?

Quoting kailu1835:

An AR-15 can only kill as rapidly as you can pull the trigger.  The same as any semi-automatic pistol or hunting rifle.  Picking on the AR-15 because it LOOKS like a military style weapon is completely illogical, and that is why pro-gun rights people find it silly to even suggest that it be illegal.

Making abortion illegal gives rights to the innocent.  Guns have always been a constitutional unalienable right that was built directly into the constitution.  Killing an innocent human baby was not, and never should have been made a right in the first place.

Quoting LauraKW:

No, her choice extends until the life inside her is viable on its own, and possibly further if the situation warrants. You (general) are arguing from your moral standpoint. Not everyone shares your moral standpoint. I am arguing from a legal standpoint.

To pre-emptively rebut the "Just because it's legal doesn't make it right" response that some may counter with - and because I haven't been called any names for a while - I'll pose a comparison. Many people feel that the AR-15 should be banned. Just because the gun is legal doesn't make it right to own a weapon that can kill so many victims in such a short amount of time. Obviously abortions aren't exactly comparable with assault weapons, but my point is to think about the premise. If Congress or the SCOTUS can take away the right to an abortion then why can't they take away the right to own an AR-15?


Quoting kailu1835:

Her choice ends when another's life begins. She makes the choice to put life there, and then her choice ends.
Quoting LauraKW:

And she can have it taken out, by her own choices.



*yes, I'm totally jumping on the end of a conversation where I don't know what's already been said because I'm medicated and because I can and because I can't reach the ice cream. Are you in Hawaii?




Quoting kailu1835:

Nobody forced a woman to have sex or conceive a child, barring instances of rape.  She made the choice to have sex.  Now she has a baby in her uterus, that she put there by her own choices.

Quoting pansyprincess:

People may have a different definition of feminism than me ... but I think being anti-choice goes against everything that feminism is.  Forcing a woman to do something just because her body is capable of doing it, but she doesn't want to do it is just wrong to me regardless.  I get that people think innocent life trumps all else.  And they are welcome to make that decision in their life and with their body.  But they can't make it with mine.  And a true feminist IMO wouldn't try to make it in someone else's body.






Quoting ashellbell:

If a feminist believes in life at conception she probably thinks innocent life trumps that. That's the only conclusion I can come to.




Quoting pansyprincess:



Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.













KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM
1 mom liked this
Bravo! That was beautiful, really beautiful. The bottom line is....with all the information out there, all the numerous BC options, there is no reason whatsoever a women should become pregnant on accident. Shoot, I remember being so scared of getting pregnant I waited until the third year of dating my boyfriend before I had sex with him...even when I finally did, I was on the pill, he used a condom, and a spermicide...lol!! And guess what? I never got pregnant...well what do know!
Quoting kailu1835:

Conception is a possible consequence of sex, even if you're using protection.  Plummeting to your death is a possible consequence of skydiving, even if you have a parachute.  So you're wrong again.

Quoting autodidact:


conception and sex are no more the same thing than plummeting to your squish death and skydiving are one and the same. 

Quoting kailu1835:

I'm not confusing it at all, as they are one in the same.  All choices have consequences.  Pregnancy and subsequent motherhood are a natural consequence of sex, as are STD's. 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

You're confusing the choice to have sex with the choice as to whether or not to be a mother.

Consent to sex is not consent to being a mom.

Quoting kailu1835:


Quoting kailu1835:

Your choices end when another's life is in the balance.  You make the choice whether or not to put a life in your uterus.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Yup, and also empowered to decide when and if they want to become a mother.  You want to take that choice away from a woman, I think you are not a feminist.  It doesn't make it true or not true, it just makes it my opinion on this question.  I don't know that there is a right answer, so I just answer in the way that I see it.



Quoting kailu1835:

Women are very empowered.  They are empowered to make their own choices about sex and conception.  Nobody should be empowered to take the life of an innocent human being.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.














kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM

We are born perfect, but we don't stay that way.  As we get older, and learn the difference between right and wrong, and then begin to make choices; whether to do what we know we're supposed to, or not.  That's where Jesus' sacrifice comes in.

And you're preaching to the choir on the first part of your post :)

Quoting LindaClement:

100% of the roots of Christianity are in heathen philosophy: every single doctrine is a direct ripoff, as is virutally every symbol. Every practice of every sect of Christianity is a mimic of earlier pagan and Jewish rituals, with a huge pile cobbled together over the millennia since as more and more converts were enticed in with familiarity.

If Jesus didn't die for your sins (because you and every other human were born perfect) what, exactly did he die for?

Quoting kailu1835:

I do not believe that anyone is responsible for anyone else's sin.  This is affirmed in scripture after scripture throughout the Bible.  We are born perfect and without sin.  It is not until we are older and capable of making conscious decisions that we are capable of sin.  Without knowing what is right or wrong, how can any child be held accountable?  An infant doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, all he or she knows is whether or not he or she is uncomfortable for whatever reason (wet, hungry, tummy ache, etc).  Original Sin is a complete fabrication perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church back in the 5th century, and is not supported anywhere in the Bible.  In fact, its very roots are in heathen philosophy.

Quoting LindaClement:

What 'innocent' are you talking about?

Where did Original Sin go?

Quoting kailu1835:

An AR-15 can only kill as rapidly as you can pull the trigger.  The same as any semi-automatic pistol or hunting rifle.  Picking on the AR-15 because it LOOKS like a military style weapon is completely illogical, and that is why pro-gun rights people find it silly to even suggest that it be illegal.

Making abortion illegal gives rights to the innocent.  Guns have always been a constitutional unalienable right that was built directly into the constitution.  Killing an innocent human baby was not, and never should have been made a right in the first place.

Quoting LauraKW:

No, her choice extends until the life inside her is viable on its own, and possibly further if the situation warrants. You (general) are arguing from your moral standpoint. Not everyone shares your moral standpoint. I am arguing from a legal standpoint.

To pre-emptively rebut the "Just because it's legal doesn't make it right" response that some may counter with - and because I haven't been called any names for a while - I'll pose a comparison. Many people feel that the AR-15 should be banned. Just because the gun is legal doesn't make it right to own a weapon that can kill so many victims in such a short amount of time. Obviously abortions aren't exactly comparable with assault weapons, but my point is to think about the premise. If Congress or the SCOTUS can take away the right to an abortion then why can't they take away the right to own an AR-15?


Quoting kailu1835:

Her choice ends when another's life begins. She makes the choice to put life there, and then her choice ends.
Quoting LauraKW:

And she can have it taken out, by her own choices.



*yes, I'm totally jumping on the end of a conversation where I don't know what's already been said because I'm medicated and because I can and because I can't reach the ice cream. Are you in Hawaii?




Quoting kailu1835:

Nobody forced a woman to have sex or conceive a child, barring instances of rape.  She made the choice to have sex.  Now she has a baby in her uterus, that she put there by her own choices.

Quoting pansyprincess:

People may have a different definition of feminism than me ... but I think being anti-choice goes against everything that feminism is.  Forcing a woman to do something just because her body is capable of doing it, but she doesn't want to do it is just wrong to me regardless.  I get that people think innocent life trumps all else.  And they are welcome to make that decision in their life and with their body.  But they can't make it with mine.  And a true feminist IMO wouldn't try to make it in someone else's body.






Quoting ashellbell:

If a feminist believes in life at conception she probably thinks innocent life trumps that. That's the only conclusion I can come to.




Quoting pansyprincess:



Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.














babiesbabybaby development

chloedee
by Bronze Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:41 PM

One of the few? Just about every other industrialized nation has legal abortion as well.

Quoting kailu1835:

*sigh*

We are one of the few Industrialized countries that views pregnancy as a medical condition.  Which is probably why we have the highest rate of maternal and neonatal death of any of them.

Quoting MsDenuninani:

Then you and I think of motherhood differently.

I think I can't always choose whether or not to become pregnant, but I can always choose whether or not to become a mother.  Motherhood means the deliberate responsibility of another; pregnancy just means you are pregnant. 

To me, pregnancy is a medical condition; motherhood is a way of living. 

And you're right, all choices do have consequences. An abortion can be a consequence, too.

Quoting kailu1835:
I'm not confusing it at all, as they are one in the same. 
All choices have consequences.  Pregnancy and subsequent motherhood are a natural consequence of sex, as are STD's. 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

You're confusing the choice to have sex with the choice as to whether or not to be a mother.

Consent to sex is not consent to being a mom.

Quoting kailu1835:


Quoting kailu1835:

Your choices end when another's life is in the balance.  You make the choice whether or not to put a life in your uterus.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Yup, and also empowered to decide when and if they want to become a mother.  You want to take that choice away from a woman, I think you are not a feminist.  It doesn't make it true or not true, it just makes it my opinion on this question.  I don't know that there is a right answer, so I just answer in the way that I see it.



Quoting kailu1835:

Women are very empowered.  They are empowered to make their own choices about sex and conception.  Nobody should be empowered to take the life of an innocent human being.

Quoting pansyprincess:

Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.
















MsMcWithey
by Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM
The male choice (or lack thereof) is a slippery slope. On one hand, I think it is unfair that if a man wants the baby he helped create, that he doesn't have a choice, because if he did, it would infringe on the woman's choice, BUT on the other hand, I get that it is not HIS body being sacrificed for 40 weeks to bring the child into the world...



With that being said, isn't it amazing that anyone could have ever thought that women were inferior? Lol So much of the power to procreate lies with the woman :)


Quoting pansyprincess:

 Agreed.  It is about equality.  And as far as I can see, there isn't an adult man that can be forced to have a child carried in his body for 9 months when he doesn't want one.  So until we make men do that to, you can't make woman do it.






Quoting MsMcWithey:

Feminism is about SO much more than abortion. Abortion is only one of MANY causes feminists are fighting for. And when I said equal rights, I was not just talking about abortion, like I said there is A LOT more than just that.



Quoting pansyprincess:



 Again, that's your opinion.  People can call themselves anything they want.  In my mind, if you want to take away my right to make choices about my health and my body, you aren't a feminist.




And there is no "equal rights" when it comes to pregnancy.  Equal to who?  We can't be equal to men ... because men can't carry babies.  So that's not about "equal".  It's about the RIGHT to be in charge of ones own body.




So you can't convince me that a person can be both a feminist and anti-choice.




Quoting MsMcWithey:

Feminism is about more than that. It is about EQUAL rights for ALL. There are even male feminists. There are even *gasp* CHRISTIAN feminists now! :)

While the majority of feminists are politically pro-choice, a new wave of feminists who are pro-life has been emerging for years now.





Quoting pansyprincess:




Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.




 




 






 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Mar. 20, 2013 at 3:42 PM

:D

Quoting kailu1835:

We are born perfect, but we don't stay that way.  As we get older, and learn the difference between right and wrong, and then begin to make choices; whether to do what we know we're supposed to, or not.  That's where Jesus' sacrifice comes in.

And you're preaching to the choir on the first part of your post :)

Quoting LindaClement:

100% of the roots of Christianity are in heathen philosophy: every single doctrine is a direct ripoff, as is virutally every symbol. Every practice of every sect of Christianity is a mimic of earlier pagan and Jewish rituals, with a huge pile cobbled together over the millennia since as more and more converts were enticed in with familiarity.

If Jesus didn't die for your sins (because you and every other human were born perfect) what, exactly did he die for?

Quoting kailu1835:

I do not believe that anyone is responsible for anyone else's sin.  This is affirmed in scripture after scripture throughout the Bible.  We are born perfect and without sin.  It is not until we are older and capable of making conscious decisions that we are capable of sin.  Without knowing what is right or wrong, how can any child be held accountable?  An infant doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, all he or she knows is whether or not he or she is uncomfortable for whatever reason (wet, hungry, tummy ache, etc).  Original Sin is a complete fabrication perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church back in the 5th century, and is not supported anywhere in the Bible.  In fact, its very roots are in heathen philosophy.

Quoting LindaClement:

What 'innocent' are you talking about?

Where did Original Sin go?

Quoting kailu1835:

An AR-15 can only kill as rapidly as you can pull the trigger.  The same as any semi-automatic pistol or hunting rifle.  Picking on the AR-15 because it LOOKS like a military style weapon is completely illogical, and that is why pro-gun rights people find it silly to even suggest that it be illegal.

Making abortion illegal gives rights to the innocent.  Guns have always been a constitutional unalienable right that was built directly into the constitution.  Killing an innocent human baby was not, and never should have been made a right in the first place.

Quoting LauraKW:

No, her choice extends until the life inside her is viable on its own, and possibly further if the situation warrants. You (general) are arguing from your moral standpoint. Not everyone shares your moral standpoint. I am arguing from a legal standpoint.

To pre-emptively rebut the "Just because it's legal doesn't make it right" response that some may counter with - and because I haven't been called any names for a while - I'll pose a comparison. Many people feel that the AR-15 should be banned. Just because the gun is legal doesn't make it right to own a weapon that can kill so many victims in such a short amount of time. Obviously abortions aren't exactly comparable with assault weapons, but my point is to think about the premise. If Congress or the SCOTUS can take away the right to an abortion then why can't they take away the right to own an AR-15?


Quoting kailu1835:

Her choice ends when another's life begins. She makes the choice to put life there, and then her choice ends.
Quoting LauraKW:

And she can have it taken out, by her own choices.



*yes, I'm totally jumping on the end of a conversation where I don't know what's already been said because I'm medicated and because I can and because I can't reach the ice cream. Are you in Hawaii?




Quoting kailu1835:

Nobody forced a woman to have sex or conceive a child, barring instances of rape.  She made the choice to have sex.  Now she has a baby in her uterus, that she put there by her own choices.

Quoting pansyprincess:

People may have a different definition of feminism than me ... but I think being anti-choice goes against everything that feminism is.  Forcing a woman to do something just because her body is capable of doing it, but she doesn't want to do it is just wrong to me regardless.  I get that people think innocent life trumps all else.  And they are welcome to make that decision in their life and with their body.  But they can't make it with mine.  And a true feminist IMO wouldn't try to make it in someone else's body.






Quoting ashellbell:

If a feminist believes in life at conception she probably thinks innocent life trumps that. That's the only conclusion I can come to.




Quoting pansyprincess:



Nope, not in my mind.  Feminism is about empowering woman.  This is going against empowering woman.  It is enslaving them to be an incubator when they don't want to be.  You are not a supporter of woman when you try to take their rights away.















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