Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

Explain why the Pope is closer to God then you think I can be?

Posted by   + Show Post
Worshiping a man, albeit the pope, seems in conflict with the teachings of Moses. That shall not worship false idols.

In Jesus's own words did he not say. I am the way and the light?

Isn't it contradictory to worship the teachings of Christ while giving a earthy man so much credit?
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Mar. 20, 2013 at 5:22 AM
Replies (21-30):
candlegal
by Judy on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:24 AM
1 mom liked this

Actually it is based on the followiing.

John 20:21-23


21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 

The sacrement of reconcilliation aka Confession is based upon James 5:16


Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.


blurp
by Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:24 AM

 The only thing that was written I recall of peter is he was called the ''rock''.   He was the one Jesus said had the most stuff the followers were going to look to for classifying what redemption was all about.  He laid the foundation at his feet because he knew Peter had what it took to get past those doubters. 

Peter had essence, and ability.   Peter was capable of dealing with trouble making in the church.  I mean the church that wouldn't listen.   He could find lost sheep.

(is this close?

I've never once needed to be catholic minded.   Just family focused.


Quoting mommajen32:

Christ made Peter the foundation of the Church. The Pope is in the line of Peter. Catholics do not worship the Pope and that's where they get it from. Now, bowing and kissing his ring and such ........ wellllllllllllllllllllll.............. your point is duly noted :)


 

mommajen32
by Platinum Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:28 AM


Quoting candlegal:

Christ is the one absolving them of sins.  He is doing it through them as he has sent them.

John 20:21-23


21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 


I gave Poodles the Scripture behind Reconcilliation above. It's the same way as going to your Pastor to talk to him about what you've done. The pastor doesn't absolve you, the pastor can confirm to you that in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that you are absolved of sin. That is consistent in the Catholic faith as well. They do not say, in the name of the Pope or the name of the Catholic Church. 

It is different in ritual but the theology is very similar to protestants in terms of who grants forgivness of sin, that's a huge part of mass. Christ died for our sins. 

There is a reverence for the Pope ... humans have a way of creating hierarchy. 

mommajen32
by Platinum Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:34 AM


Quoting candlegal:

Actually it is based on the followiing.

John 20:21-23


21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 

The sacrement of reconcilliation aka Confession is based upon James 5:16


Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.


I studied with the Jesuits, there are actually several verses that support the sacrement. This is the best explaination I could find that is consistent to how I was taught. 

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/confession.html



SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS

Scripture

  1. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins
  2. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins

Tradition / Church Fathers

  1. The Early Church’s Practice of Oral Confession

Back · Home · Next
 


Scripture

I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

Matt. 18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence").

2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins.

2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.

Top

 


II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Acts 19:18 - many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today.

Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist).

1 Tim. 6:12 - this verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses.

1 John 1:9 - if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another.

Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 - even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Baruch 1:14 - again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

romalove
by Roma on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:39 AM
2 moms liked this


Quoting blurp:

 then what would a religion be purposelessly doing on a ceremony on television only to get followers or response or just noticed , what is the pomp and circumstance all about?  It seems very wasteful if unnecessary to promote something nobody is really paying attention to anyway.

What is a conduit?

And so far Jesus was the only one to make a statement about ..."if you see someone who likes to be sitting at the head of the table;;''', and .....

-   when  ....'' you they wearing garments that are full of garnishings and excess for showiness, than they are not to be trusted''.  

I would think that they are trying in any attempt to make themselves holier than they are to get respect.  But going for a position as head of anything religious isn't something I'd bank on just because it's on t.v. or has a huge magnanamous building behind it ...    the proper building that will be built will be the one for Jerusalem and it's permanance.  

we all make mistakes, but I think that when we just judge ourselves usually it's for our own growth with God personally.  not that even nobody judges anyone, since we all do at times.   We're judged also.

I hope that everyone somehow will just come to trust Jesus as Gods' son and the future king of the whole earth...  that is so complete. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 

What makes you think Catholics don't have a direct link to God?  What makes you think Christ isn't who is absolving their sins?

You are mistaking having a conduit for the conduit being the absolver.

You may "prefer" it your way but that doesn't mean your way is "the" way.



Um what?

Catholics have it as "right" as anyone.

Don't believe me?

Prove it.

Oh right, you can't....

pagancuriosity
by Bronze Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:42 AM
4 moms liked this

I just like watching the "I'm more right than you are, or I'm more Christian than you are" arguments that spring up whenever topic like these are posted. Sometimes you guys are your own worst enemy. You can't even get your own house in order, yet want to make everyone conform to your beliefs...um, no thanks

blurp
by Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:42 AM

 I get thrown so much from (in red) ...  because it also says in the same bible scriptures within and around different books (for what it's worth)   that as God forgave us we are to forgive others as well,  in comparing the ''our father''.. prayer.    FORGIVE our TRESSPASSES as we forgive those who've trespasses against us.

So didn't or doesn't this measure out to be, .... if nobody forgives anyone, than those who are not doing the forgivenesses to others, will indeed NOT GET forgiven for their trespasses..... as well.  ((again, forgive as I have forgiven you. ))

So the **pun** cardinal law or creed should be in all faiths and in ALL.... L I F E......

to forgive as we are forgiven..  

and I don't mean paying it forward like in the cashier line.. totally diff. situation. !! lol.


Quoting candlegal:

Actually it is based on the followiing.

John 20:21-23

 

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 

The sacrement of reconcilliation aka Confession is based upon James 5:16


Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.



 

candlegal
by Judy on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:43 AM
2 moms liked this

Actually it is not the same as they were not given the power to forgive sins as the apostles were.  Reconciliation is based on John 21-23.  Talking to someone about your sins and being forgiven are two different things.

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting candlegal:

Christ is the one absolving them of sins.  He is doing it through them as he has sent them.

John 20:21-23


21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 


I gave Poodles the Scripture behind Reconcilliation above. It's the same way as going to your Pastor to talk to him about what you've done. The pastor doesn't absolve you, the pastor can confirm to you that in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that you are absolved of sin. That is consistent in the Catholic faith as well. They do not say, in the name of the Pope or the name of the Catholic Church. 

It is different in ritual but the theology is very similar to protestants in terms of who grants forgivness of sin, that's a huge part of mass. Christ died for our sins. 

There is a reverence for the Pope ... humans have a way of creating hierarchy. 


viv212
by Gold Member on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:44 AM
1 mom liked this
I am a non-practicing Catholic and I would never say the Pope is closer to God than you are. It's not my personal relationship and there shouldn't be anyone to judge you or him.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
candlegal
by Judy on Mar. 20, 2013 at 7:48 AM
2 moms liked this

We have to forgive the trespasses of others against us if we expect to  be forgiven by God.

Quoting blurp:

 I get thrown so much from (in red) ...  because it also says in the same bible scriptures within and around different books (for what it's worth)   that as God forgave us we are to forgive others as well,  in comparing the ''our father''.. prayer.    FORGIVE our TRESSPASSES as we forgive those who've trespasses against us.

So didn't or doesn't this measure out to be, .... if nobody forgives anyone, than those who are not doing the forgivenesses to others, will indeed NOT GET forgiven for their trespasses..... as well.  ((again, forgive as I have forgiven you. ))

So the **pun** cardinal law or creed should be in all faiths and in ALL.... L I F E......

to forgive as we are forgiven..  

and I don't mean paying it forward like in the cashier line.. totally diff. situation. !! lol.


Quoting candlegal:

Actually it is based on the followiing.

John 20:21-23


21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting toomanypoodles:

 Yup.  This is why I am not a Catholic.  I have a direct link to God, using the Name of Jesus...I don't need to be absolved of my sins by anyone but Christ. 

The sacrement of reconcilliation aka Confession is based upon James 5:16


Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.





Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

close Join now to connect to
other members!
Connect with Facebook or Sign Up Using Email

Already Joined? LOG IN