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I've been reading so many downright disgusting comments about women and rape now that it has once again made international headlines (India, Ohio, etc. etc.)

I wrote up a blog expressing some thoughts, but here was a key point that I wanted to discuss-

"

People, so many people- are jumping at the bit, justifying rape at the expense of the victim.

She didn’t say no soon enough. She was a tease. She dressed a certain way. She hung out in the wrong venue. She put herself in a bad position (drinking, drugs).

Here’s the thing I’m hearing here:

Women are walking around, available to screw any time a guy wants to. UNLESS she says no."

Do you agree with that conclusion? That some people seem to think that sex is okay-expected- unless they object (soon enough), vs. sex isn't expected, deserved, etc UNLESS she consents? What do you feel is causing statements like the above examples to be made?

by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 11:19 AM
Replies (31-40):
jehosoba84
by Jenn on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:21 PM

 I said they're asking for unwanted attention. I think that the way you dress and act with your body (baring all and rubbing up against them) clearly says you're open to idea of sex. Unless she says No.  The things I've said relate more to a scene in a bar/etc with people getting drunk. I'm not referring to random assaults and forcible rape.

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

Don't backpeddle. You said that anyone who dresses in that fashion is asking to be raped. So, if your friend in your instance had actually been raped, not danced with, by your line of thinking it would be her fault. 

Quoting jehosoba84:

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting jehosoba84:

 Maybe my thinking is a product of the society I live in.   But if I go out, dressed like a skank, get drunk among strangers.... I really shouldn't be surprised if I get taken advantage of. By that.. I don't mean forcible rape. I mean he's drunk, and I'm drunk. Things happen that I didn't want to happen. According to law, that is rape.   

 In my opinion, a woman can dress very classy/sexy without baring breasts and wearing mini skirts. That kind of clothing send a very clear message. Men are visually oriented, we all know this. So why do we as women dress the way we do (leaving nothing to the imagination) and then act all surprised when we get 'unwanted' attention from it?

I understand what you are saying.  But no man should 'assume' any woman, regardless of her outfit or otherwise, is all for having sex.......unless she tells him so with her words and nothing else.  I'm really trying to explain my thoughts on this without making it seem like I'm just making excuses for men. But you say she must tell him so with words. Women are much more verbal than men. they are more visual creatures. In *his* mind she has already told him she would be open to sex by the way she dressed and acted. Can you really blame him to thinking so? So to me, it's not 'unless she tells him so with words' it's more like 'unless she tells him no with words.'   Did that make sense?

Recently, I was out with a few people, different ages, the youngest being 21.  She was dancing with friends, by way of doing nothing more than bending over and shaking her ass.  All the while her boobs were hanging out of her top.

Some guy comes up behind her, on the dance floor.  She does not stand up or move away.  They are 'dancing', by way of her shaking her ass in his groin and he is grinding up against her. 

When the song ends, she starts to complain that he had a hard on.  What the hell did she expect?!?  She did not move away when he came up behind her to 'dance' and she then continued to 'dance' in the same manner the rest of the evening.  

Now, even though I found her behavior to be rather disgusting and her attitude as well, even though she put herself out there in such a way, no one should have assumed they could have sex with her unless she absolutely agreed.

But the attention she got..........she brought on herself.  If she had not wanted that kind of attention she would have acted in a different manner.  

Some people, regardless of male or female, want all the attention they can get, up to the point of sex.  This only tells me that person has some issues for seeking that type of attention but it, in no way, should be a determination of if they want, or should, be engaged in any sexual activity.

 


 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:21 PM
7 moms liked this

"forcible rape"

Who the fuck comes up with this nonsense? Rape is rape. These distinctions are ridiculous. 90% of rapes are done by people the victim knows. It's not all stranger danger, lurking in an ally waiting to beat the shit out of a lady and then rape her. That's not the way it goes the vast majority of the time. And yet that is the only time charges are brought against a rapist. It just boggles the hell out of my mind. 

ReadWriteLuv
by Silver Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM
3 moms liked this

News flash: every rape is a forcible rape. That's why it's rape, not consentual sex. 

Quoting jehosoba84:

 I said they're asking for unwanted attention. I think that the way you dress and act with your body (baring all and rubbing up against them) clearly says you're open to idea of sex. Unless she says No.  The things I've said relate more to a scene in a bar/etc with people getting drunk. I'm not referring to random assaults and forcible rape.

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

Don't backpeddle. You said that anyone who dresses in that fashion is asking to be raped. So, if your friend in your instance had actually been raped, not danced with, by your line of thinking it would be her fault. 

parentalrights1
by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM
1 mom liked this
Actually two people being drunk is not rape. One person being drunk and someone taking advantage of the opportunity is rape.

And no rubbing up on someone is not consent. Even if it was, she can still say no later.

There are times that a woman is okay with first or second base, but not third or intercourse.

I guess for your logic, giving a hand job to an e boyfriend meant he could have held me down and raped me if he wanted to.



Quoting jehosoba84:

 


Quoting Ms.KitKat:


 Even if a woman is drinking and drugging; I feel that is even MORE reason to back away!!!! It is quite obvious when a person is inebriated and therefore can not give consent. If a girl has been kissing up on a guy(who may also be inebriated) and rubbing all over him all evening, to me, she has already told him yes. A person who has sex with an inebriated person is not obtaining consent and therefore it is forced (aka rape).


 


Quoting PinkParadox:

Drinking & drugs are certainly a separate issue, but the amount of skin shown is irrelevant. Period. Woman should be able to show as much skin as they want. Why? Because nakedness does not equal sex. Ever.


It invites that kind of attention. Like granny said in above post, "If it's not for sale, stop advertising it." <--my new favorite quote.



Quoting jehosoba84:


 



Quoting PinkParadox:

So, at the end of the day, we are responsible for the action of men? Men are brainless beasts with no personal accountability? Men have no responsibility for themselves? Absolutely not. But the way women dress these days...Don't you see that you're inviting the wrong kind of attention? And don't women have any sort of self-preservation, getting drunk/high/etc with people they don't know? Where is their sense of personal responsiblity? No, it does not mean that they 'deserve' it. But they are asking for it. I speak from personal experience in this matter.

I personally think everyone should walk around naked, because this would be a non issue.

People will jump down my throat, but I blame organized religion for most of our current society issues.




Quoting jehosoba84:



 Maybe my thinking is a product of the society I live in.   But if I go out, dressed like a skank, get drunk among strangers.... I really shouldn't be surprised if I get taken advantage of. By that.. I don't mean forcible rape. I mean he's drunk, and I'm drunk. Things happen that I didn't want to happen. According to law, that is rape.   




 In my opinion, a woman can dress very classy/sexy without baring breasts and wearing mini skirts. That kind of clothing send a very clear message. Men are visually oriented, we all know this. So why do we as women dress the way we do (leaving nothing to the imagination) and then act all surprised when we get 'unwanted' attention from it?



 


 


 


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
PinkParadox
by Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:23 PM
1 mom liked this
It still comes down to the man not being able to control himself.

Quoting jehosoba84:

 I said they're asking for unwanted attention. I think that the way you dress and act with your body (baring all and rubbing up against them) clearly says you're open to idea of sex. Unless she says No.  The things I've said relate more to a scene in a bar/etc with people getting drunk. I'm not referring to random assaults and forcible rape.


Quoting ReadWriteLuv:


Don't backpeddle. You said that anyone who dresses in that fashion is asking to be raped. So, if your friend in your instance had actually been raped, not danced with, by your line of thinking it would be her fault. 


Quoting jehosoba84:


 


Quoting FromAtoZ:




Quoting jehosoba84:


 Maybe my thinking is a product of the society I live in.   But if I go out, dressed like a skank, get drunk among strangers.... I really shouldn't be surprised if I get taken advantage of. By that.. I don't mean forcible rape. I mean he's drunk, and I'm drunk. Things happen that I didn't want to happen. According to law, that is rape.   


 In my opinion, a woman can dress very classy/sexy without baring breasts and wearing mini skirts. That kind of clothing send a very clear message. Men are visually oriented, we all know this. So why do we as women dress the way we do (leaving nothing to the imagination) and then act all surprised when we get 'unwanted' attention from it?


I understand what you are saying.  But no man should 'assume' any woman, regardless of her outfit or otherwise, is all for having sex.......unless she tells him so with her words and nothing else.  I'm really trying to explain my thoughts on this without making it seem like I'm just making excuses for men. But you say she must tell him so with words. Women are much more verbal than men. they are more visual creatures. In *his* mind she has already told him she would be open to sex by the way she dressed and acted. Can you really blame him to thinking so? So to me, it's not 'unless she tells him so with words' it's more like 'unless she tells him no with words.'   Did that make sense?


Recently, I was out with a few people, different ages, the youngest being 21.  She was dancing with friends, by way of doing nothing more than bending over and shaking her ass.  All the while her boobs were hanging out of her top.


Some guy comes up behind her, on the dance floor.  She does not stand up or move away.  They are 'dancing', by way of her shaking her ass in his groin and he is grinding up against her. 


When the song ends, she starts to complain that he had a hard on.  What the hell did she expect?!?  She did not move away when he came up behind her to 'dance' and she then continued to 'dance' in the same manner the rest of the evening.  


Now, even though I found her behavior to be rather disgusting and her attitude as well, even though she put herself out there in such a way, no one should have assumed they could have sex with her unless she absolutely agreed.


But the attention she got..........she brought on herself.  If she had not wanted that kind of attention she would have acted in a different manner.  


Some people, regardless of male or female, want all the attention they can get, up to the point of sex.  This only tells me that person has some issues for seeking that type of attention but it, in no way, should be a determination of if they want, or should, be engaged in any sexual activity.


 




 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
ethans_momma06
by Bronze Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM



Quoting stringtheory:

Why is it that a woman's appearance is seen as only relevant in terms of attracting appropriate or inappropriate attention from men? It only took two responses for the implication to be made that women should do whatever they do (dress, drink, dance, giggle) with potential male reactions in mind.


I admit, I was surprised that it cropped up THAT fast.

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM
2 moms liked this

That does not clearly say jack shit. That is not an open invitation to jack shit. Any man who assumes that a woman who does that is open to having sex with him and then makes that happen is a horrible piece of human trash who should be thrown in jail. There is no behavior on the part of the woman that justifies a rape. Drunk women should be left alone. "foricible rape" is also a ridiculous notion. Rape is rape. 

Quoting jehosoba84:

 I said they're asking for unwanted attention. I think that the way you dress and act with your body (baring all and rubbing up against them) clearly says you're open to idea of sex. Unless she says No.  The things I've said relate more to a scene in a bar/etc with people getting drunk. I'm not referring to random assaults and forcible rape.

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

Don't backpeddle. You said that anyone who dresses in that fashion is asking to be raped. So, if your friend in your instance had actually been raped, not danced with, by your line of thinking it would be her fault. 

jehosoba84
by Jenn on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM

 

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:


Quoting jehosoba84:

 

 I agree. I'm referring to the women who dress baring everything and drink/use drugs among strangers.  They are not usually in a state to say no, but throughout the evening they've been saying "Yes" with their bodies.   I'm not referring to forcible rape.

I need to walk away now. 

I assure you that even though I had entirely too much to drink that night, I wasn't asking for it. Women like you kind of make me sick. 

 Well, thanks. My actions that night made me sick to think about later on too. Too much to drink to even realize what was going on, but not drunk enough for me not to remember the next day. I speak from experience on this.

parentalrights1
by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM
5 moms liked this
Forcible rape is what disgusting pieces of shit coined in order to avoid sayin what they really think.

They think the only legitimate rape is when a fully clothed, sober woman is dragged into the alleyway by a gun wielding masked man.

Everything else is boys will be boys and women ought a know by now not to think they have any rights over their bodies


Quoting mehamil1:

"forcible rape"

Who the fuck comes up with this nonsense? Rape is rape. These distinctions are ridiculous. 90% of rapes are done by people the victim knows. It's not all stranger danger, lurking in an ally waiting to beat the shit out of a lady and then rape her. That's not the way it goes the vast majority of the time. And yet that is the only time charges are brought against a rapist. It just boggles the hell out of my mind. 


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Citygirlk
by Gold Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I gaged when I saw that.

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

jaw drop

Quoting jehosoba84:

  Absolutely not. But the way women dress these days...Don't you see that you're inviting the wrong kind of attention? And don't women have any sort of self-preservation, getting drunk/high/etc with people they don't know? Where is their sense of personal responsiblity? No, it does not mean that they 'deserve' it. But they are asking for it. I speak from personal experience in this matter. 


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