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I've been reading so many downright disgusting comments about women and rape now that it has once again made international headlines (India, Ohio, etc. etc.)

I wrote up a blog expressing some thoughts, but here was a key point that I wanted to discuss-

"

People, so many people- are jumping at the bit, justifying rape at the expense of the victim.

She didn’t say no soon enough. She was a tease. She dressed a certain way. She hung out in the wrong venue. She put herself in a bad position (drinking, drugs).

Here’s the thing I’m hearing here:

Women are walking around, available to screw any time a guy wants to. UNLESS she says no."

Do you agree with that conclusion? That some people seem to think that sex is okay-expected- unless they object (soon enough), vs. sex isn't expected, deserved, etc UNLESS she consents? What do you feel is causing statements like the above examples to be made?

by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 11:19 AM
Replies (51-60):
jehosoba84
by Jenn on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:30 PM

 

Quoting parentalrights1:

Actually two people being drunk is not rape. One person being drunk and someone taking advantage of the opportunity is rape.

And no rubbing up on someone is not consent. Even if it was, she can still say no later.

There are times that a woman is okay with first or second base, but not third or intercourse.

I guess for your logic, giving a hand job to an e boyfriend meant he could have held me down and raped me if he wanted to.



Sorry, I thought I typed that part, but it was in a few other of my responses to others. I said that she is giving him non-verbal condent, and I don't blame him for assuming that ...Until she says NO. 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM
2 moms liked this

Women in burkas are raped. Elderly nuns who are completely covered head to toe are raped. It has nothing to do with what  a woman is wearing and everything to do with a man who is a rapist who targets women he perceives as vulnerable. Anyone who thinks otherwise is buying into rape culture. 

Quoting Tish_Hughes:
That's stupid. I'm in the army and even with ACUs on, which is designed to hide everything, men make comments. Hair pulled back, covered from head to toe yet here they are-making comments.

What a foolish way of thinking. The way a person is dressed doesn't up their chances of being raped. What about tomboys that dress like boys who still get raped? Guess she should have put more thought into those loose fitting jeans and that Adidas shirt.

Quotig jehosoba84:

 Maybe my thinking is a product of the society I live in.   But if I go out, dressed like a skank, get drunk among strangers.... I really shouldn't be surprised if I get taken advantage of. By that.. I don't mean forcible rape. I mean he's drunk, and I'm drunk. Things happen that I didn't want to happen. According to law, that is rape.   

 In my opinion, a woman can dress very classy/sexy without baring breasts and wearing mini skirts. That kind of clothing send a very clear message. Men are visually oriented, we all know this. So why do we as women dress the way we do (leaving nothing to the imagination) and then act all surprised when we get 'unwanted' attention from it?

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM


Quoting jehosoba84:

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting jehosoba84:

 Maybe my thinking is a product of the society I live in.   But if I go out, dressed like a skank, get drunk among strangers.... I really shouldn't be surprised if I get taken advantage of. By that.. I don't mean forcible rape. I mean he's drunk, and I'm drunk. Things happen that I didn't want to happen. According to law, that is rape.   

 In my opinion, a woman can dress very classy/sexy without baring breasts and wearing mini skirts. That kind of clothing send a very clear message. Men are visually oriented, we all know this. So why do we as women dress the way we do (leaving nothing to the imagination) and then act all surprised when we get 'unwanted' attention from it?

I understand what you are saying.  But no man should 'assume' any woman, regardless of her outfit or otherwise, is all for having sex.......unless she tells him so with her words and nothing else.  I'm really trying to explain my thoughts on this without making it seem like I'm just making excuses for men. But you say she must tell him so with words. Women are much more verbal than men. they are more visual creatures. In *his* mind she has already told him she would be open to sex by the way she dressed and acted. Can you really blame him to thinking so? So to me, it's not 'unless she tells him so with words' it's more like 'unless she tells him no with words.'   Did that make sense?

Recently, I was out with a few people, different ages, the youngest being 21.  She was dancing with friends, by way of doing nothing more than bending over and shaking her ass.  All the while her boobs were hanging out of her top.

Some guy comes up behind her, on the dance floor.  She does not stand up or move away.  They are 'dancing', by way of her shaking her ass in his groin and he is grinding up against her. 

When the song ends, she starts to complain that he had a hard on.  What the hell did she expect?!?  She did not move away when he came up behind her to 'dance' and she then continued to 'dance' in the same manner the rest of the evening.  

Now, even though I found her behavior to be rather disgusting and her attitude as well, even though she put herself out there in such a way, no one should have assumed they could have sex with her unless she absolutely agreed.

But the attention she got..........she brought on herself.  If she had not wanted that kind of attention she would have acted in a different manner.  

Some people, regardless of male or female, want all the attention they can get, up to the point of sex.  This only tells me that person has some issues for seeking that type of attention but it, in no way, should be a determination of if they want, or should, be engaged in any sexual activity.

 

We cannot control the way any man, or woman, thinks.  If a man assumes any woman is willing to have sex based on her dress or actions, that is his responsibility.  He also has the responsibility to ask her if she wants to and if she says no, for any reason, he damn well should accept that answer.  

If a woman, much like the one I mentioned above, gets upset over the attention she receives based on her own actions, she needs to take a look at her own responsibility.  But you add in some one forcing sex, under any circumstances, and the responsibility for those actions fall on to the person doing the forcing.  Or, as we have seen, taking it upon themselves to do as they please because the person in question cannot say yes or no.  Consent is important.  

Of course, we all know there are circumstances when the victim does not use the word 'no'.  There are varying areas in the overall situation of rape that need to be taken in to consideration.  It is not black and white.  

Bottom line, I have little respect for any one, male or female, who put themselves out there seeking sexual attention.  Just my own personal opinion.   Even so, when the act of sex comes in to play no one has the right to assume that any other person wants it.  That assumption leads to grey areas, illegal areas and so on.

Citygirlk
by Gold Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM

It's never your fault didnt anyone ever tell you that.

Quoting jehosoba84:

 

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:


Quoting jehosoba84:

 

 I agree. I'm referring to the women who dress baring everything and drink/use drugs among strangers.  They are not usually in a state to say no, but throughout the evening they've been saying "Yes" with their bodies.   I'm not referring to forcible rape.

I need to walk away now. 

I assure you that even though I had entirely too much to drink that night, I wasn't asking for it. Women like you kind of make me sick. 

 Well, thanks. My actions that night made me sick to think about later on too. Too much to drink to even realize what was going on, but not drunk enough for me not to remember the next day. I speak from experience on this.


jehosoba84
by Jenn on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:35 PM

 

Quoting mehamil1:

So were you raped? If so, THAT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have the right to get as shit faced as you want, that doesn't mean someone could take advantage of that and have sex with you. That was just plain wrong. You are not to blame for that at all. The piece of shit human garbage is at fault for that, not you. Never you. Oh my God open your eyes! You did nothing wrong!! 

I don't think it was my fault, necessarily.  I've been re-typing the scenario over and over, but I don't want to give the details to explain the situation. And i cant think of a vague way to explain it.

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:36 PM
1 mom liked this

What is it that you don't understand about it not being ok for a man to assume a drunk woman is open to sex? How is this hard to get? It really isn't. There is no such thing as non verbal consent and there is no such thing as forcible rape. If there is no consent, that is rape. A sober man who targets a drunk woman is a predator. I don't care how she's dressed, what she did or said, if she is shit faced and he zeroed in on that, that man is a predator. He is a rapist and the scum of the earth. 

Quoting jehosoba84:
Quotin parentalrights1:

Actually two people being drunk is not rape. One person being drunk and someone taking advantage of the opportunity is rape.

And no rubbing up on someone is not consent. Even if it was, she can still say no later.

There are times that a woman is okay with first or second base, but not third or intercourse.

I guess for your logic, giving a hand job to an e boyfriend meant he could have held me down and raped me if he wanted to.

Sorry, I thought I typed that part, but it was in a few other of my responses to others. I said that she is giving him non-verbal condent, and I don't blame him for assuming that ...Until she says NO. 



lizzielouaf
by Gold Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:36 PM
6 moms liked this

Forcible rape...as opposed to voluntary rape or recreational rape or LEGITIMATE RAPE?...Honey, rape is rape. 

 I agree. I'm referring to the women who dress baring everything and drink/use drugs among strangers.  They are not usually in a state to say no, but throughout the evening they've been saying "Yes" with their bodies.   I'm not referring to forcible rape.



parentalrights1
by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM
Well she just have a sick quote from her grandma earlier and I hope like hell her grandma didnt tell her "don't display what isn't for sale"




Quoting Citygirlk:

It's never your fault didnt anyone ever tell you that.

Quoting jehosoba84:

 


Quoting ReadWriteLuv:




Quoting jehosoba84:


 


 I agree. I'm referring to the women who dress baring everything and drink/use drugs among strangers.  They are not usually in a state to say no, but throughout the evening they've been saying "Yes" with their bodies.   I'm not referring to forcible rape.


I need to walk away now. 


I assure you that even though I had entirely too much to drink that night, I wasn't asking for it. Women like you kind of make me sick. 


 Well, thanks. My actions that night made me sick to think about later on too. Too much to drink to even realize what was going on, but not drunk enough for me not to remember the next day. I speak from experience on this.



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ethans_momma06
by Bronze Member on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM
2 moms liked this



Quoting jehosoba84:

 

Quoting parentalrights1:

Actually two people being drunk is not rape. One person being drunk and someone taking advantage of the opportunity is rape.

And no rubbing up on someone is not consent. Even if it was, she can still say no later.

There are times that a woman is okay with first or second base, but not third or intercourse.

I guess for your logic, giving a hand job to an e boyfriend meant he could have held me down and raped me if he wanted to.



Sorry, I thought I typed that part, but it was in a few other of my responses to others. I said that she is giving him non-verbal condent, and I don't blame him for assuming that ...Until she says NO. 


Non-verbal consent when a woman starts to protest, decline, remove herself, or stop the actions (like taking her hand of his penis, backing away from him, etc.).

I think that it's not a crime to have an assumption, or to get the wrong impression. But, it IS wrong to persue it when it turns out that you were wrong in your assumption. That she doesn't want sex.

Her wearing a thong and exposed breasts does not override her nonverbal no.

parentalrights1
by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 12:39 PM
1 mom liked this
You really don't have to though. If you werent sober screaming "yes please!" Then there wasnt consent


Quoting jehosoba84:

 


Quoting mehamil1:


So were you raped? If so, THAT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have the right to get as shit faced as you want, that doesn't mean someone could take advantage of that and have sex with you. That was just plain wrong. You are not to blame for that at all. The piece of shit human garbage is at fault for that, not you. Never you. Oh my God open your eyes! You did nothing wrong!! 


I don't think it was my fault, necessarily.  I've been re-typing the scenario over and over, but I don't want to give the details to explain the situation. And i cant think of a vague way to explain it.


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