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Why democrats should not be involved with gun laws.

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by on Mar. 23, 2013 at 9:35 PM
Replies (271-275):
kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Mar. 29, 2013 at 7:27 PM
1 mom liked this

No, I addressed what you said, even though you skirted around the facts.  It doesn't matter WHY the Swiss have guns, no more than it matters WHY we do, or Japan and the UK don't.  What does matter that regardless of the location, a higher number of guns shows a lower rate of violence, and a lower number of guns (forced upon by the government) is always accompanied by an increase in violence in that country.  Sidestepping the issue to discuss culture is irrelevent and silly.  Face it head on.  Nowhere in the world has a gun ban ever decreased overall violence.  Regardless of the culture.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You pretty much ignore my last post just to restate what you just said, uh?

Like you pointed out (And then I pointed out) different cultures.

Or do you only say that when it opposes your assertion and when something supports your assertion you ignore it?

Like I said. Switzerland doesn't have a standing army. All healthy swiss men between 18-34 are obliged to do military service and keep their weapons at home. So while it is true that many of them have weapons it is not the same way we have weapons. Many of those weapons are there because people are conscripted into their military.

And when people get out of the military they are given the option to keep their fire arm.

This means a lot of those people who have those weapons have had military training with them. This is vastly different than how it is here where people want the biggest fastest firing weapon they can have for some odd reason.

Where people "accidently" shoot their children and what not.

Their culture is vastly different than ours. And since they their males are forced to join the military and keep their weapons at home and then have the option to keep them when they get out. Well it makes it obvious why they rank up there. But again. Completely different culture.

Unless you are saying culture doesn't change anything. In which case I bring Japan up again.


Quoting kailu1835:

Let me put it to you this way, so that you will understand. Of countries that have not almost banned, or outright banned guns, Switzerland has one of the highest gun rates per capita (third behind us and Yemen). It also has the lowest gun crime rate of any country that has not almost banned, or outright banned guns. Do you get it now? All countries that have gotten rid of their guns either in part or entirely have seen immediate and mostly drastic increased rates in overall violence. Japan's violence rate used to be much lower than it is now. And then they cracked down on guns. And now their rate is much higher (relatively speaking) than it used to be, so it DOES fit the statistic I stated.
Quoting brookiecookie87:


I find it interesting that when you realized the number is low you blow it off as a cultural difference.

I was refering to just gun violence (Not all violence). And when you said, "I'd like to point out that Japan has less than 1 gun per 100 residents, so you can expect less gun crime"-Which is what my original point was. Less guns would lead to less gun violence.

Can I blow off the stastics from Switzerland as well? Because our cultural difference is extreme as well.

They don't have a standing army and their citizens are conscripted into the military where they all get military training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home which leads to their high gun ownership rates.

Their cultural is about as different from us, as Japan is from us.



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Carpy
by Ruby Member on Mar. 29, 2013 at 8:39 PM

What is the point of this braindead post?

Quoting LucyMom08:

 Why Christians shouldn't be involved in politics...


brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Mar. 29, 2013 at 10:58 PM


So when I pointed how low the crime in Japan is per capita and that they have extremely strict gun laws and you tried to side step it by saying they have a different culture. That was different?


Quoting kailu1835:

No, I addressed what you said, even though you skirted around the facts.  It doesn't matter WHY the Swiss have guns, no more than it matters WHY we do, or Japan and the UK don't.  What does matter that regardless of the location, a higher number of guns shows a lower rate of violence, and a lower number of guns (forced upon by the government) is always accompanied by an increase in violence in that country.  Sidestepping the issue to discuss culture is irrelevent and silly.  Face it head on.  Nowhere in the world has a gun ban ever decreased overall violence.  Regardless of the culture.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You pretty much ignore my last post just to restate what you just said, uh?

Like you pointed out (And then I pointed out) different cultures.

Or do you only say that when it opposes your assertion and when something supports your assertion you ignore it?

Like I said. Switzerland doesn't have a standing army. All healthy swiss men between 18-34 are obliged to do military service and keep their weapons at home. So while it is true that many of them have weapons it is not the same way we have weapons. Many of those weapons are there because people are conscripted into their military.

And when people get out of the military they are given the option to keep their fire arm.

This means a lot of those people who have those weapons have had military training with them. This is vastly different than how it is here where people want the biggest fastest firing weapon they can have for some odd reason.

Where people "accidently" shoot their children and what not.

Their culture is vastly different than ours. And since they their males are forced to join the military and keep their weapons at home and then have the option to keep them when they get out. Well it makes it obvious why they rank up there. But again. Completely different culture.

Unless you are saying culture doesn't change anything. In which case I bring Japan up again.


Quoting kailu1835:

Let me put it to you this way, so that you will understand. Of countries that have not almost banned, or outright banned guns, Switzerland has one of the highest gun rates per capita (third behind us and Yemen). It also has the lowest gun crime rate of any country that has not almost banned, or outright banned guns. Do you get it now? All countries that have gotten rid of their guns either in part or entirely have seen immediate and mostly drastic increased rates in overall violence. Japan's violence rate used to be much lower than it is now. And then they cracked down on guns. And now their rate is much higher (relatively speaking) than it used to be, so it DOES fit the statistic I stated.
Quoting brookiecookie87:


I find it interesting that when you realized the number is low you blow it off as a cultural difference.

I was refering to just gun violence (Not all violence). And when you said, "I'd like to point out that Japan has less than 1 gun per 100 residents, so you can expect less gun crime"-Which is what my original point was. Less guns would lead to less gun violence.

Can I blow off the stastics from Switzerland as well? Because our cultural difference is extreme as well.

They don't have a standing army and their citizens are conscripted into the military where they all get military training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home which leads to their high gun ownership rates.

Their cultural is about as different from us, as Japan is from us.





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LucyMom08
by Gold Member on Mar. 29, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Why do you say it's braindead?

Quoting Carpy:

What is the point of this braindead post?

Quoting LucyMom08:

 Why Christians shouldn't be involved in politics...



Posted on CafeMom Mobile
kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Mar. 30, 2013 at 12:36 AM

My reference to culture was not about gun violence but violence in general.  They have a lower gun crime rate because they have less than 1 gun per 100 people.  It is like the UK.  Very low gun crime rate, because there are no guns, but also very high violence because there are no guns (that is in relation to what their violent crime rate was before the strict gun bans).  In fact, their violent crime rate skyrocketed dramatically from where it was pre-ban. 

ETA: Here are my actual words (I added comments in blue):

Quote:

Switzerland has around 46 guns per 100 residents.  What is their gun crime rate? Well, they had around 40 gun related deaths in 2010, out of 53 TOTAL homicides.  In comparison, Japan had over 1,000 Total homicides here, NOT gun violence.  I see that I did not clarify this, so I apologize for that..  That seems like a low number, but there are some cultural issues there at play that we do not have, one of those being few to no interpersonal relationships... as you may or may not know, the largest number of murderer/victim pairings are people that know each other and have dealing with eachother on a somewhat frequent basis.  They also have fewer young people in comparison to the rest of the population, and young people are the prime perpetrators for murder.  There are a lot of other factors as well, but they still do not have a better rate when it comes to murder, or even general violence than Switzerland. Notice that I specifically said general violence.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


So when I pointed how low the crime in Japan is per capita and that they have extremely strict gun laws and you tried to side step it by saying they have a different culture. That was different?


Quoting kailu1835:

No, I addressed what you said, even though you skirted around the facts.  It doesn't matter WHY the Swiss have guns, no more than it matters WHY we do, or Japan and the UK don't.  What does matter that regardless of the location, a higher number of guns shows a lower rate of violence, and a lower number of guns (forced upon by the government) is always accompanied by an increase in violence in that country.  Sidestepping the issue to discuss culture is irrelevent and silly.  Face it head on.  Nowhere in the world has a gun ban ever decreased overall violence.  Regardless of the culture.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You pretty much ignore my last post just to restate what you just said, uh?

Like you pointed out (And then I pointed out) different cultures.

Or do you only say that when it opposes your assertion and when something supports your assertion you ignore it?

Like I said. Switzerland doesn't have a standing army. All healthy swiss men between 18-34 are obliged to do military service and keep their weapons at home. So while it is true that many of them have weapons it is not the same way we have weapons. Many of those weapons are there because people are conscripted into their military.

And when people get out of the military they are given the option to keep their fire arm.

This means a lot of those people who have those weapons have had military training with them. This is vastly different than how it is here where people want the biggest fastest firing weapon they can have for some odd reason.

Where people "accidently" shoot their children and what not.

Their culture is vastly different than ours. And since they their males are forced to join the military and keep their weapons at home and then have the option to keep them when they get out. Well it makes it obvious why they rank up there. But again. Completely different culture.

Unless you are saying culture doesn't change anything. In which case I bring Japan up again.


Quoting kailu1835:

Let me put it to you this way, so that you will understand. Of countries that have not almost banned, or outright banned guns, Switzerland has one of the highest gun rates per capita (third behind us and Yemen). It also has the lowest gun crime rate of any country that has not almost banned, or outright banned guns. Do you get it now? All countries that have gotten rid of their guns either in part or entirely have seen immediate and mostly drastic increased rates in overall violence. Japan's violence rate used to be much lower than it is now. And then they cracked down on guns. And now their rate is much higher (relatively speaking) than it used to be, so it DOES fit the statistic I stated.
Quoting brookiecookie87:


I find it interesting that when you realized the number is low you blow it off as a cultural difference.

I was refering to just gun violence (Not all violence). And when you said, "I'd like to point out that Japan has less than 1 gun per 100 residents, so you can expect less gun crime"-Which is what my original point was. Less guns would lead to less gun violence.

Can I blow off the stastics from Switzerland as well? Because our cultural difference is extreme as well.

They don't have a standing army and their citizens are conscripted into the military where they all get military training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home which leads to their high gun ownership rates.

Their cultural is about as different from us, as Japan is from us.






babiesbabybaby development

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