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S/O - Should victims avoid punishment?

Posted by on Mar. 24, 2013 at 7:42 PM
  • 24 Replies

NWP's post on upsetting statements has me wondering - Should people who break the law avoid the legal consequences of their actions if they are victimized by another person?

Scenario 1:  Driver A is drunk.  He is driving his family home from a Christmas Party.  While driving home, Driver A's car is hit  by Driver B, who is also drunk, and who has run a red light.  Driver A's entire family is killed, but he survives. Assume that a traffic camera shows that Driver A could not have avoided the accident if sober.  His BAC is .17 - more than twice the legal limit in most states.  Should Driver A be charged with driving drunk, or is the loss of his family punishment enough?

Scenario 2:  A 19 year old college student is drinking at a party.  She leaves with several males.  Her BAC is also .17.  The legal drinking age is 21.  She is raped and beaten by the men she left with.  She is found lying on the sidewalk in a pool of vomit by a beat cop.  Her statement is taken, and she is given a breathalyzer test, which shows that she is legally intoxicated.  Should the girl be charged with underage consumption?

Scenario 3:  A teen jumps a fence to toilet paper a house.  The homeowner's dog, which has previously attacked two other people, and which he has been ordered to remove, attacks him and he is badly injured, requiring surgery.  The teen meant no real harm, but the attack would never have happened if he had followed the law.  Should he be charged with trespassing, or is his injury punishment enough?

Assume that the other parties in all 3 scenarios were charged, convicted, and sentenced.  Should the people who didn't "cause" the harm also be charged?  Why or why not?

by on Mar. 24, 2013 at 7:42 PM
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Replies (1-10):
GoddessNDaRuff
by Silver Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:00 PM
The 19 year old would get a ticket. The other guy would get a ticket for drunk driving but if it's not his first offense he'd be jailed. And I doubt the kid would get off as well.
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Themis_Defleo
by Bronze Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM

The question, though, is *should* they escape without a ticket?

In another post, it has been argued that a rape victim who was drunk should not be prosecuted for minor in possession or underage consumption because that punishes her for being raped.  I'm trying to explore that reasoning.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The 19 year old would get a ticket. The other guy would get a ticket for drunk driving but if it's not his first offense he'd be jailed. And I doubt the kid would get off as well.


GoddessNDaRuff
by Silver Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:22 PM
The law does not care even in cases where it should. As long as they keep the two separate it is what it is. Cops tend to be assholes anyway so I really don't see them sparing anybody especially in cities where they have ticket and arrest quotas. There are cases I think it's dumb to ticket someone. For instance my husband was going under the speed limit when an animal appeared in the road. At a curve no time to stop. Now if he hit the damn thing he would have likely been severely hurt and would have been ticketed because the area is a safe have for animals but since he swerved to miss the stupid thing and flipped the car he got a ticket for failure to control his vehicle. So no matter what he would have been ticketed. No win situation.

I can think of situations where the drunk girl didn't know she was getting drunk (vodka in a potent juice and you can get anyone drunk without them knowing especially if they aren't drinkers. That mess won't hit them until they stand up or sit down yea I know some assholes) but the law wouldn't take that into consideration since she's drunk and there is no way to prove that. And if they did it would be well after the fact and the ticket would be paid already.


Quoting Themis_Defleo:

The question, though, is *should* they escape without a ticket?

In another post, it has been argued that a rape victim who was drunk should not be prosecuted for minor in possession or underage consumption because that punishes her for being raped.  I'm trying to explore that reasoning.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The 19 year old would get a ticket. The other guy would get a ticket for drunk driving but if it's not his first offense he'd be jailed. And I doubt the kid would get off as well.


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Themis_Defleo
by Bronze Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Again, I'm not asking about what the law is, or how it operates.  I already knokw the answers to those questions.  What I am asking is, from an ethical point of view, should we fail to cite the victim, or drop the charges because they have been "punished enough."

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The law does not care even in cases where it should. As long as they keep the two separate it is what it is. Cops tend to be assholes anyway so I really don't see them sparing anybody especially in cities where they have ticket and arrest quotas. There are cases I think it's dumb to ticket someone. For instance my husband was going under the speed limit when an animal appeared in the road. At a curve no time to stop. Now if he hit the damn thing he would have likely been severely hurt and would have been ticketed because the area is a safe have for animals but since he swerved to miss the stupid thing and flipped the car he got a ticket for failure to control his vehicle. So no matter what he would have been ticketed. No win situation.

I can think of situations where the drunk girl didn't know she was getting drunk (vodka in a potent juice and you can get anyone drunk without them knowing especially if they aren't drinkers. That mess won't hit them until they stand up or sit down yea I know some assholes) but the law wouldn't take that into consideration since she's drunk and there is no way to prove that. And if they did it would be well after the fact and the ticket would be paid already.


Quoting Themis_Defleo:

The question, though, is *should* they escape without a ticket?

In another post, it has been argued that a rape victim who was drunk should not be prosecuted for minor in possession or underage consumption because that punishes her for being raped.  I'm trying to explore that reasoning.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The 19 year old would get a ticket. The other guy would get a ticket for drunk driving but if it's not his first offense he'd be jailed. And I doubt the kid would get off as well.



GoddessNDaRuff
by Silver Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:29 PM
1 mom liked this
My answer is depends. I wouldn't personally in these scenarios...no need to be an ass kwim? Sometimes it just isn't worth it.

Quoting Themis_Defleo:

Again, I'm not asking about what the law is, or how it operates.  I already knokw the answers to those questions.  What I am asking is, from an ethical point of view, should we fail to cite the victim, or drop the charges because they have been "punished enough."

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The law does not care even in cases where it should. As long as they keep the two separate it is what it is. Cops tend to be assholes anyway so I really don't see them sparing anybody especially in cities where they have ticket and arrest quotas. There are cases I think it's dumb to ticket someone. For instance my husband was going under the speed limit when an animal appeared in the road. At a curve no time to stop. Now if he hit the damn thing he would have likely been severely hurt and would have been ticketed because the area is a safe have for animals but since he swerved to miss the stupid thing and flipped the car he got a ticket for failure to control his vehicle. So no matter what he would have been ticketed. No win situation.



I can think of situations where the drunk girl didn't know she was getting drunk (vodka in a potent juice and you can get anyone drunk without them knowing especially if they aren't drinkers. That mess won't hit them until they stand up or sit down yea I know some assholes) but the law wouldn't take that into consideration since she's drunk and there is no way to prove that. And if they did it would be well after the fact and the ticket would be paid already.




Quoting Themis_Defleo:

The question, though, is *should* they escape without a ticket?

In another post, it has been argued that a rape victim who was drunk should not be prosecuted for minor in possession or underage consumption because that punishes her for being raped.  I'm trying to explore that reasoning.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

The 19 year old would get a ticket. The other guy would get a ticket for drunk driving but if it's not his first offense he'd be jailed. And I doubt the kid would get off as well.



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NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:36 PM
5 moms liked this

For me this is divided into passive and active responses.
The raped girl didn't "do" anything other than take a drink of something that she may or may not have known would cause her to pass out. She was a passive victim. What she was doing would poise no injury to anyone else because of her passiveness.


This is not the case for the other two scenarios.


In the other two instances, the man in the car and
the boy vandalizing the house were involved in actions that were not passive, but could or were intended to cause injury or harm to others.


I don't see them the same way because of the passive/active differences.

Neon Washable Paint

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Yeah, I am a softie for the vics.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

My answer is depends. I wouldn't personally in these scenarios...no need to be an ass kwim? Sometimes it just isn't worth it.

Quoting Themis_Defleo:

Again, I'm not asking about what the law is, or how it operates.  I already knokw the answers to those questions.  What I am asking is, from an ethical point of view, should we fail to cite the victim, or drop the charges because they have been "punished enough."

Neon Washable Paint

NewMom11222011
by Bronze Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Since it would appear that all three situations are misdemeanor charges and one would hope that from the consequences of their respective actions they would have been deterred from committing the same crimes in the future, I would advocate for not charging them.

Mama2Spencerninja

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:46 PM

This is true except for scenario A who is guilty of DUI even if he isn't at fault.

I also agree with you about dismissing the misdemeanor charges on a vic.

Quoting NewMom11222011:

Since it would appear that all three situations are misdemeanor charges and one would hope that from the consequences of their respective actions they would have been deterred from committing the same crimes in the future, I would advocate for not charging them.


Neon Washable Paint

GoddessNDaRuff
by Silver Member on Mar. 24, 2013 at 8:52 PM
The guy who killed my cousin isn't being charged. He was driving recklessly and speeding hit a patch of black ice. The force of the impact tossed my cousin from the front passenger side out the back windshield. He died on the operating table. The kid is depressed and suicidial over it. Somehow he escaped with scrapes and bruises. I still don't know how I feel about him not being charged but at the same time I guess he has been punished enough. He did lose his friend and has to live with the fact his actions caused his death.

Quoting NWP:

Yeah, I am a softie for the vics.

Quoting GoddessNDaRuff:

My answer is depends. I wouldn't personally in these scenarios...no need to be an ass kwim? Sometimes it just isn't worth it.



Quoting Themis_Defleo:

Again, I'm not asking about what the law is, or how it operates.  I already knokw the answers to those questions.  What I am asking is, from an ethical point of view, should we fail to cite the victim, or drop the charges because they have been "punished enough."

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