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U.S. Gov. Fighting to deny Asylum to German Homeschool

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Still having problems with CM's site. I heard about this on the news a day ago. I found this very interesting. A German family came over to the U.S. so they can homeschool their children. In Germany the Gov. probids homeschooling in most cases. In Germany their reasons appears to be that the Gov. wants to prohibit people who think differently from the Gov. on religious or philosophical grounds (from growing & developing into a force in society). Our Gov. only will let someone stay here if they have fear of danger in their own Country. Here's a few articles on this case. What are your thoughts? http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-government-fighting-to-deny-asylum-to-german-homeschool-family http://www.hslda.org/does/news/2013/201302110.asp
by on Mar. 25, 2013 at 1:20 PM
Replies (21-30):
Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Oh here you are again Goodwoman lol. I don't care if I get no response to this thread. I heard about this case on TV about this German family leaving Germany to come here so they can homeschool their children, because in Germany you can't. I found this very interesting. I had a lot I wanted to say in regards to this case. If others, like yourself, don't find this interesting then just don't come in. No big deal, so if you don't have anything to add can you please just let others discuss this? If you want to come in & make remarks, can you stick to this topic? Thanks
Quoting Goodwoman614:



Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.
Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.

And you're hoping to get another post up over the 200 mark, even though 50-75% of the comments are yours, replying (sometimes multiple times) to each & every comment



Goodwoman614
by Satan on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:31 PM



Quoting Naturewoman4:

Oh here you are again Goodwoman lol. I don't care if I get no response to this thread. I heard about this case on TV about this German family leaving Germany to come here so they can homeschool their children, because in Germany you can't. I found this very interesting. I had a lot I wanted to say in regards to this case. If others, like yourself, don't find this interesting then just don't come in. No big deal, so if you don't have anything to add can you please just let others discuss this? If you want to come in & make remarks, can you stick to this topic? Thanks
Quoting Goodwoman614:



Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.
Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.

And you're hoping to get another post up over the 200 mark, even though 50-75% of the comments are yours, replying (sometimes multiple times) to each & every comment



I am sure there are volunteer activities you can find in your community. Really good thing for bored people w/too much time on their hands.


Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Ok, I guess I understand this. Then this family needs to go through the proper channels to become a citizen here. I get that, yet why then is there millions of illegals here from all over the World & yet they are not a citizen. Point is, then why doesn't this family just do the same? Would they have to return to Germany & apply there FIRST to become a citizen of this Country, BEFORE coming back here? I believe I heard that there are only so many visas or temp. visas that can be issued per yr. in our Country. If one doesn't have a visa or temp visa, then they are told they need to go back to their Country. Then I have to wonder, why not just do what so many others have done, just stay anyway? That way this family can homeschool their kids here, teaching them what THEY want to teach their children.
Quoting Raintree:

No.

Germany has a very high standard of living. There is no 'fear for life' involved, and until home schooling becomes a protected class- they haven't got a case. There are home schoolers that are pretty rabid about what they do- I'm pretty sure that is the type of person behind this story. 

They're free to come here if they want to go through immigration the correct way- not just the "we're persecuted in Germany!" kind of way. Not every country can send 'refugee status' immigrants. Germany isn't one of them.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Yes, that was my thought as well. But, then my question would be how is it that some are able to stay here in the U.S. & others aren't. Is it because those that come here are in fear for their life. If people come to this Country for the sole purpose of having a better life & providing a better life for their children, wouldn't this fit into the same category? Just curious does Holder always get involved in fighting asylum for some or all? There is a lot of people that come to this Country, because of all the freedom we have here. Not solely because they are in fear of their life where they came from. So, what makes this case any different?
Quoting Raintree:


Quoting Naturewoman4:

The writer of this article wanted to have insight on our own Gov. views towards the rights of homeschooling parents in general.  The U.S. law of asylum allows a refugee to stay in the U.S. permanently if he can show that he/she is being persecuted for one of several specific reasons.  Among these are persecution for 'religious' reasons & persecution of a "particular social group".  It is thought control of its people.  Belief control.  It is totalitarianism dressed up in politically correct lingo.  (according to the writer of this article). 

I'm assuming that the government acknowledges persecution only when it threatens life or comes close to that. Which this does not.

Persecution as a word has been used and flattened out to mean everything from not hearing Merry Christmas at Target the day after Thanksgiving to all out genocide of a specific ethnic group.

I don't think that homeschooling fits into a protected group as of yet- in terms of human rights. If they want to homeschool they should work on changing the laws in Germany.




Donna6503
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:35 PM
1 mom liked this
Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.

Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.

Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.

But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.


Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.


Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.



Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US





Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.



Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."















Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:35 PM
Yet here you are...Goodwoman I would appreciate it if you would just either discuss this thread or leave. Because, you are not here to discuss this. You are here to attack me. Do you have anything to add to this discussion? I really would like to hear what you have to say.
Quoting Goodwoman614:



Quoting Naturewoman4:

Oh here you are again Goodwoman lol. I don't care if I get no response to this thread. I heard about this case on TV about this German family leaving Germany to come here so they can homeschool their children, because in Germany you can't. I found this very interesting. I had a lot I wanted to say in regards to this case. If others, like yourself, don't find this interesting then just don't come in. No big deal, so if you don't have anything to add can you please just let others discuss this? If you want to come in & make remarks, can you stick to this topic? Thanks
Quoting Goodwoman614:



Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.
Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.

And you're hoping to get another post up over the 200 mark, even though 50-75% of the comments are yours, replying (sometimes multiple times) to each & every comment



I am sure there are volunteer activities you can find in your community. Really good thing for bored people w/too much time on their hands.



Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:42 PM
But. Donna I read where Germany signed a International Treaty stating that an indiviual has these religious rights. It was because of all the killings by the Nazis just because of other people's religious beliefs. Why wouldn't Germany then allow their people rights to homeschool their children due to their own personal religious beliefs?
Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.

Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.

Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.

But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.


Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.


Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.



Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US





Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.



Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."
















DragonMother10
by on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:42 PM
I don't know. I will ask my husband exactly the deal with homeschooling. It just doesn't seem a valid reason to leave Germany and make it seem like they are living in fear. It is possible since it costs a lot of money to come here as a permanent residence, that they are trying to find an easier way to come to the U.S. They have to become permanent residents before becoming legal citizens. They have to prove to the U.S. government that they are worthy of becoming citizens. It will take a few more years or so.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.




Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.



Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
autodidact
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM
1 mom liked this

No actually Bill of Rights refers to the first 10 amendments to our Constitution. I don't need a lesson on the Bill of Rights thank you.

Religious freedom is not the basis for homeschooling.  Homeschooling isn't based in religion, and many nonreligious people homeschool.

Article 4 of German basic law, or their constitution, does in  fact grant freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is not the issue here and this  German family was not being persecuted, religiously or otherwise.

Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.

Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.

Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.

But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.


Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.


Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.



Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US





Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.



Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."




















JCB911
by Bronze Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:52 PM

I was of the impression that if they returned their children would be taken from them.  I can't imagine something more fearful than having my children taken from me and my husband.


Quoting DragonMother10:

I don't know. I will ask my husband exactly the deal with homeschooling. It just doesn't seem a valid reason to leave Germany and make it seem like they are living in fear. It is possible since it costs a lot of money to come here as a permanent residence, that they are trying to find an easier way to come to the U.S. They have to become permanent residents before becoming legal citizens. They have to prove to the U.S. government that they are worthy of becoming citizens. It will take a few more years or so.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.




Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.




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Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:54 PM
Thank-You DragonMother, that would be interesting to hear what your husband has to say or any knowledge he may have in this case. I do understand about the point that this family has nothing to fear for their safety in Germany. But, that also means they aren't able to homeschool their children. Because, if they did they would be fined, put in jail, or even lose their children. I'm sure they have a Lawyer that deals with these issues, so they must feel they have a legitmate case to win. If it costs so much to come here & be a permanent residence & a legal citizen, how is it so many illegals from all over the WORLD are here still? I hear of some that are illegal yet they have been able to work in higher level jobs. Some as journalist. They probably make pretty good money now, so I was wondering why they never became a legal citizen of this Country. Therefore, I was wondering why this family just don't do the same. They should of known ahead of time before coming, where the U.S. stands on this. I just feel sorry for them, because in our Country we have those freedoms to homeschool our kids. Pulling them out of public schools, because of the violence, bullying, or just not liking the way our public schools are teaching our children. This issue is VERY important for parents wanting to raise their kids for which they believe is the best way possible. Whether it is even for religious reasons, parents should be able to do this.
Quoting DragonMother10:

I don't know. I will ask my husband exactly the deal with homeschooling. It just doesn't seem a valid reason to leave Germany and make it seem like they are living in fear. It is possible since it costs a lot of money to come here as a permanent residence, that they are trying to find an easier way to come to the U.S. They have to become permanent residents before becoming legal citizens. They have to prove to the U.S. government that they are worthy of becoming citizens. It will take a few more years or so.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.




Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.




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